Foster Hewitt Finals: Macon Whoopee vs. Vancouver Millionaires

[Sturminator]

MACON WHOOPEE

Head Coach: Joel Quenneville
Captain: Nicklas Lidstrom
Assistant Captains: Sidney Crosby, Derian Hatcher

Dickie Moore - Nels Stewart - Phil Watson
Harry Watson - Sidney Crosby (A) - Alexander Maltsev
Craig Ramsay - Fleming Mackell - Danny Gare
Jaroslav Jirik - Harry Westwick - Bob Nystrom

Nicklas Lidstrom (C) - Larry Murphy
Derian Hatcher (A) - Frank Patrick
Al Iafrate - Jamie Macoun

Roy Worters
John Ross Roach


PP1: Nicklas Lidstrom - Larry Murphy - Dickie Moore - Sidney Crosby - Nels Stewart (net presence)
PP2: Al Iafrate - Frank Patrick - Jaroslav Jirik - Phil Watson - Alex Maltsev

PK1: Nicklas Lidstrom - Derian Hatcher - Fleming Mackell - Craig Ramsay
PK2: Larry Murphy - Jamie Macoun - Harry Westwick - Phil Watson

Extra: Neal Broten, Andre Dupont, Vsevolod Bobrov​

Vs.​

Vancouver Millionares Hockey Club

Head Coach: Glen Sather
Captain: Wayne Gretzky
Assistant: Lionel Conacher
Assistant: Charlie Conacher
Home Rink: Denman Arena (1911)

'Baldy' Northcott - Wayne Gretzky (C) - Charlie Conacher (A)
Sweeney Schriner - Milan Novy - Bill Guerin
John Madden - Ralph Backstrom - Jerry Toppazzini
Red Berenson - Jason Arnott - Alexei Kovalev

Lionel Conacher (A) - Eric Desjardins
Gus Mortson - Sergei Zubov
George McNamara - Keith Magnuson

Terry Sawchuk
Curtis Joseph

Spares: Ron Greschner D, Herb Cain LW, Alexei Zhitnik D, Jeff Carter C/RW

1st unit PP: Zubov - Desjardins - Schriner - Gretzky - C.Conacher
2nd unit PP: L.Conacher - Zubov - Northcott - Novy - Kovalev

1st unit PK: Madden - Toppazzini - L. Conacher - Mortson
2nd unit PK: Berenson - Backstrom - Desjardins - Magnuson
Alternate: Gretzky - Guerin

Coaching staff Notes:
* Schriner gets looks with Gretzky and Conacher when trailing late in close games
* Eric Desjardins and Lionel Conacher is a shutdown pairing used in last minute/2 minutes​

Click to read more...

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Good luck Marky Mark. Gretzky VS Crosby is a pretty epic matchup, no?

 

[jarek]

Good luck Marky Mark. Gretzky VS Crosby is a pretty epic matchup, no?

I suppose this series will finally put to rest who the better player is..

 

[markrander87]

Good luck to you as well MB, you are one of my favorite GM's who always seems to think outside of the box and this team is no different. I'm hoping I have some time to dig into this series.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Good luck to you as well MB, you are one of my favorite GM's who always seems to think outside of the box and this team is no different. I'm hoping I have some time to dig into this series.

Right away the biggest concern from our side is the enormous advantage you have on the top pairings. Gameplan will have to be to get as physical as possible with Lids and Murphy, but they are both so god damn hard to rattle especially Lidstrom. I think if we aren't successful at this, my team is ****ed pure and simple.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

If I have to face Wayne Gretzky, I can't think of a defenseman I'd rather have on my side than Nicklas Lidstrom. Trying to hit Gretzky is a fools errand, so Lidstrom's finesse defensive game is as effective a thing against The Great One as you're going to get. I'm less impressed by Larry Murphy, who performed well defensively late in his career as Lidstrom's partner, but who (I'm pretty sure) spent the majority of his career in more offensive roles, with another pairing taking the tougher defensive assignment (this was definitely how he was used during his peak in Pittsburgh). Still, he does have a skillset that compliments Lidstrom well.

On the other hand, I don't think I see a single center on Macon capable of making a dent in Gretzky's production. Honestly, attempting to use Sidney Crosby head to head vs Gretzky might be Macon's best option - he's at least somewhat competent defensively (unlike Stewart) and is going to control the puck more often and score more on the counterattack than MacKell or Westwick. Unless I'm missing something big about Westwick being some defensive star.

As for which coach is going to be better at getting his matchups, I honestly don't know!

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

If I have to face Wayne Gretzky, I can think of a defenseman I'd rather have on my side than Nicklas Lidstrom. Trying to hit Gretzky is a fools errand, so Lidstrom's finesse defensive game is as effective a thing against The Great One as you're going to get. I'm less impressed by Larry Murphy, who performed well defensively late in his career as Lidstrom's partner, but who (I'm pretty sure) spent the majority of his career in more offensive roles, with another pairing taking the tougher defensive assignment (this was definitely how he was used during his peak in Pittsburgh). Still, he does have a skillset that compliments Lidstrom well.

On the other hand, I don't think I see a single center on Macon capable of making a dent in Gretzky's production. Honestly, attempting to use Sidney Crosby head to head vs Gretzky might be Macon's best option - he's at least somewhat competent defensively (unlike Stewart) and is going to control the puck more often and score more on the counterattack than MacKell or Westwick. Unless I'm missing something big about Westwick being some defensive star.

As for which coach is going to be better at getting his matchups, I honestly don't know!

You don't think Quennville is in Slats' tier yet, do you? I mean it's not a blowout, but edge to Sather. They are both good fits with the rosters however.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Anyways, Van's advantages in this series:

1)High-end forwards. I really respect Macon's top 9, but there is no denying we have the higher impact best four in the respective top 6's.

Gretzky+Conacher+Schriner+Novy>Crosby+Moore+Maltsev+Stewart

2)It's fun having elite goaltending come playoff time. Sawchuk>Worters (how many ''>'' can I use?).

3)Like I mentioned above, Sather is a better bench boss than Quennville with twice as many championships to date at this point. He is also one of the better fit's Vancouver's roster could have hoped for.

4)Depth on D. No questions asked we're slaughtered at the top, but Macon's 2nd and 3rd pair really are a large drop off. This is how I see them:

Lidstrom>>>L.Conacher
Murphy>Zubov
Desjardins>>Hatcher
Mortson>>Patrick
Magnuson>Macoun
McNamara=Iafrate (contrasting styles but similar impacts I suppose)

5)Similar third lines. Ramsay is the best third liner on either team but at the same time Ralph Backstrom is easily the best C, which is the most important position. Also, Danny Gare doesn't bring any plusses defensively at this level really, Macon's third line is kind of stuck between being a shutdown unit and a gritty two-way line - whereas Van has arranged a pure shutdown unit.

 

[markrander87]

Lets get this party started. Vancouver has to have one of the weakest 2nd lines in this thing. He put all of his eggs in on basket with that Gretzky line.

TDMM beat me to it, having Lidstrom to match up against the Gretzky line will be huge.

***Line up change for Macon. We will be slotting Craig Ramsay on to our 2nd line and will move Harry Watson to the 3rd line..allowing this will have one of the best defensive forwards of all time to play with Crosby - Maltsev against the only scoring threat for Vancouver the Gretzky line.

Craig Ramsay - Sidney Crosby (A) - Alexander Maltsev
Harry Watson - Fleming Mackell - Danny Gare

Conacher is a great trigger man for Gretz, but he and Baldy Nortcott will leave poor Wayne doing all of the playmaking by himself.

Terrible 2nd line, 3rd line will contribute nothing offensively and a blueline littered with guys playing over their heads in their roles. Lionel Conacher has to be one of the worst number 1's in this.

With me matching the Crosby line against the Gretzky line it opens up the large flaw in Vancouvers 3rd line....their size. All three are good defensive players with good speed, but are they going to be able to handle the cycle/physical game of my 1st line with Dickie Moore and Nels Stewart?

 

[markrander87]

If Craig Ramsay - Sidney Crosby - Alexander Maltsev plus Nik Lidstrom is not able to slow down Gretzky....I don't know what could.

 

[jarek]

I'm not sure I really see the purpose of putting Ramsay on that line. Do you intend for him to follow Conacher or Gretzky deep into the defensive zone to help out Lidstrom and Murphy?

 

[Sturminator]

Terrible 2nd line...

Are you really calling Schriner - Novy - Guerin a terrible 2nd line? I don't think it's a great one, but "terrible" is pretty harsh.

 

[Dreakmur]

If Craig Ramsay - Sidney Crosby - Alexander Maltsev plus Nik Lidstrom is not able to slow down Gretzky....I don't know what could.

A much better defensive line might be able to. Not sure why you think Crosby is going to shut down Gretzky.

 

[markrander87]

I'm not sure I really see the purpose of putting Ramsay on that line. Do you intend for him to follow Conacher or Gretzky deep into the defensive zone to help out Lidstrom and Murphy?

Why does it have to be on or the other? When Crosby and Maltsev are in the offensive zone and there is a turnover, Ramsay will be able to read the play and help prevent a scoring chance in the back end.

To answer your question...it depends on the situation, whoever is more likely to score in that given situation.

Are you really calling Schriner - Novy - Guerin a terrible 2nd line? I don't think it's a great one, but "terrible" is pretty harsh.

Yes, yes I am. Especially now that we're in the 3rd round of the ATD playoffs. Schriner and Guerin both have very dismal playoff resumes.

A much better defensive line might be able to. Not sure why you think Crosby is going to shut down Gretzky.

As TDMM has already Mentioned, Gretzky thrived on the over physical defensive players. To me personally the best way to stop a talent like Gretzky is to keep the puck off of his stick. How do you keep the puck off of his stick? You try and dictate puck possession. Rather then a grinding third line, this unit of Crosby, Maltsev and Lidstrom will be focusing in on maintaining puck possession and wearing out Wayne by making him play more in his defensive end.

 

[jarek]

Why does it have to be on or the other? When Crosby and Maltsev are in the offensive zone and there is a turnover, Ramsay will be able to read the play and help prevent a scoring chance in the back end.

To answer your question...it depends on the situation, whoever is more likely to score in that given situation.

I guess Ramsay does have good enough offense at ES to help out a bit in the offensive zone. These days, all the best defensive forwards are centers, and for good reason.. the winger's primary responsibility seems to be simply to cut off passes to the points, which doesn't require a great deal of talent or skill defensively. If you have your winger follow the opposing forwards into the defensive zone, you end up opening up the opposing points for passes. I suppose I'd rather have Ramsay than Crosby following Gretz and Conacher, though, and Crosby could take on the winger's role in the defensive zone.

 

[Dreakmur]

Yes, yes I am. Especially now that we're in the 3rd round of the ATD playoffs. Schriner and Guerin both have very dismal playoff resumes.

Neither guy is a great play-off performer, but neither was bad either.

Crosby, Stewart, and both Watsons see their scoring rates drop in the play-offs, similar to Guerin and Schriner. Are they also "dismal"?

As TDMM has already Mentioned, Gretzky thrived on the over physical defensive players. To me personally the best way to stop a talent like Gretzky is to keep the puck off of his stick. How do you keep the puck off of his stick? You try and dictate puck possession. Rather then a grinding third line, this unit of Crosby, Maltsev and Lidstrom will be focusing in on maintaining puck possession and wearing out Wayne by making him play more in his defensive end.

Sure, you can try to minimize his puck time, but how do you handle him when he does have the puck? You are not going to keep the puck away from Gretzky. It's just not going to happen.

 

[markrander87]

Neither guy is a great play-off performer, but neither was bad either.

Crosby, Stewart, and both Watsons see their scoring rates drop in the play-offs, similar to Guerin and Schriner. Are they also "dismal"?

Terrible logic...Crosby and Stewart are both infinitely better then Guerin and Stewart in the pre season. Why are they even in the same conversation? It would be like comparing Marcel Dionne to Patrick Marleau.

Anyways Crosby gets such a bad rap around here, if you want to ding him for his "bad playoff" resume thats all you, he's been carrying around a couple 4th liners for the past 8 years on his back, it;s not his fault he has had terrible wingers to play with. Alex Maltsev will be a breath of fresh air for him.

Sure, you can try to minimize his puck time, but how do you handle him when he does have the puck? You are not going to keep the puck away from Gretzky. It's just not going to happen.

Back to your old tricks eh Dreak? Please show me where I said I was going to completely keep the puck away from Gretzky?.....of course it's not going to happen so stop putting words in my mouth.

For the 5th time now, I said that is how I plan on slowing down Gretzky. Vancouver is a one trick pony with only one scoring line. Slow down that one line and we win the series.

To answer your question, when Gretzky does have the puck Lidstrom/Ramsay is almost as good as its going to get for a defensive forward/defesneman duo on the ice together.

 

[markrander87]

Does Vancouver plan on matching up their 3rd line against my top line? The size match up is undeniable.

 

[jarek]

While I do agree that slowing down the Gretzky line is likely key to winning this series, I wouldn't call Vancouver a one line team. Novy, for my money, is a really good scorer himself, and so is Schriner. Part of the problem for Vancouver is that is all they are, however.

 

[markrander87]

While I do agree that slowing down the Gretzky line is likely key to winning this series, I wouldn't call Vancouver a one line team. Novy, for my money, is a really good scorer himself, and so is Schriner. Part of the problem for Vancouver is that is all they are, however.

Thats a good point Jarek, that I seem to have overlooked. Where is the puck winning and defensive conscious on Vancouvers 2nd line?

 

[Dreakmur]

Terrible logic...Crosby and Stewart are both infinitely better then Guerin and Stewart in the pre season. Why are they even in the same conversation? It would be like comparing Marcel Dionne to Patrick Marleau.

Yes, it's terrible logic to treat all players with the same set of expectations. You call Bill Guerin and Sweeney Schriner "abysmal" play-off performers, even though their offensive games dip by similar amounts as the players I listed on your team.

Anyways Crosby gets such a bad rap around here, if you want to ding him for his "bad playoff" resume thats all you, he's been carrying around a couple 4th liners for the past 8 years on his back, it;s not his fault he has had terrible wingers to play with. Alex Maltsev will be a breath of fresh air for him.

I didn't call him a bad play-off performer. I just wanted to point out that all their numbers drop at comparable rates.

Crosby plays with the same people regular season and play-offs, so line mates don't absolve him of a drop in production.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Thats a good point Jarek, that I seem to have overlooked. Where is the puck winning and defensive conscious on Vancouvers 2nd line?

Guerin isn't a puckwinner all of a sudden?

My top 6 doesn't have any ''defenders'' save for Northcott I guess. This is a Sather team, you're going to be chasing those lines, not the other way around..

 

[jarek]

Yeah, I was gonna say, the offense on the lines is good enough that a defensive conscience isn't strictly necessary. They will dictate the play more often than not.

However, having Guerin as the only physical presence on a line leaves things rather on the soft side.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

a blueline littered with guys playing over their heads in their roles. Lionel Conacher has to be one of the worst number 1's in this.

You have put the weight of the world all on Nicklas Lidstrom..

 

[markrander87]

You have put the weight of the world all on Nicklas Lidstrom..

Let's not underrate Nicklas Lidstrom here....he's a top 5 defenseman of all time.