GeauxIceGators
Registered User
- Jul 14, 2019
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Fort Worth's soon to be open Dickies Arena to host hockey?
- Thread starter GeauxIceGators
- Start date
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
That's an easy no.
Certainly not AHL. The only organization that would even consider the market would be the Dallas Stars, and they own their affiliate in Austin and enjoy having their prospects develop there. The AHL is now only about prospect development by means of easy travel or easy call ups, of which Ft. Worth offers neither to any other NHL team. AHL is out of the question.
ECHL is equally as unlikely. The Allen Americans are under an hour away and the league is looking much more likely to contract rather than expand. The arena and market both have no history of supporting high level hockey, so the EC wouldn't even give it the time of day anyways. It's location is a nonstarter for the SP or Fed.
As for all other levels of hockey, the Lone Star Brahmas are a fairly well-supported junior team under 20 minutes away at the Nytex Sports Center. So that counts out all other levels of hockey. Dallas is at the saturation point for hockey support, or close to it.
The building will almost certainly not be home to a hockey team. Maybe a tournament or showcase, but the present state of hockey at all levels means the arena won’t be hosting much hockey. And if that isn't enough, the local rodeo show lasts one full month in the middle of the season, which is a non-starter for hockey. I also can't find any video on the website you mentioned or any history anywhere of Dickies Arena ever hosting hockey. Could potentially host an exhibition game or two, but that's as far as it would get.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Gotta agree with @Barclay Donaldson on this one. Had this arena been opened 10 years ago, there's a chance (very slim) the old Fort Worth Brahmas of the Central Hockey League could've been resurrected by a new ownership group to play there. But that dream - and League - ended before anyone had a chance to give Ft. Worth pro hockey one last go. Leave Dickies to the rodeo events and to concerts and to NCAA tournaments (which I doubt will include hockey unless it's a pre-season or Christmastime invitational), with the occasional Disney on Ice appearance to justify the inclusion of an ice plant.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
If only we had a dollar for every time an arena with an ice plant got linked to pro hockey, eh?
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
I'd split every dollar with you, and we'd each still live comfortably.If only we had a dollar for every time an arena with an ice plant got linked to pro hockey, eh?
There are a lot of options in Texas but why wouldn't the Stars be interested in having their AHL team in the North Texas Metroplex as well? Dont get me wrong, Austin is a great city for AHL here (so is Houston, San Antonio, ...) but a 30 minute drive is still better than a 3 hour one.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Your flaw is putting the value of saving 3 hours calling up players 10-15 times per year over player development. Read into the farm team situations in Vancouver, Tampa, Florida, St. Louis, Calgary, Edmonton, Nashville, and Chicago. Putting prospects in the parent team's backyard is rarely a smart choice, and certainly wouldn't be here.
The conditions in Austin are much better. They play in front near capacity crowds on a regular basis and only play second fiddle to the big Longhorn sports and maybe the Round Rock Express in terms of public and media attention, and just general limelight. In Dallas-Fort Worth, they wouldn't get any being buried far below the Cowboys, Mavericks, Rangers, Stars, SMU, TCU, Dallas FC, and half a dozen other entities. Texas Stars' attendance at its lowest point was 5,000. That's better than their maximum potential draw in Dallas. They wouldn't have anywhere near as good of a situation if they were in North Texas. All the conditions that make for great prospect development are present in Austin, none save for easy call-up are present in Dallas. They've made it to the finals three times in ten years, that should be vindication enough that Austin is where they belong considering they aren't their draft classes have been above average at best. Sacrificing that for saving a few dozen hours in the car each year isn't a smart proposition.
Many people on these site, not just you, vastly overvalues a few hours in a car each year over prospect development. If they were on the other side of the country then there's an argument to be had, but here it isn't even close.
DudeWhereIsMakar
Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
They're likely trying to get more NCAA hockey in Texas area so I imagine that's how they start.
But if they do some sort of major-pro league, I imagine Dallas puts their ECHL affiliate there.
But if they do some sort of major-pro league, I imagine Dallas puts their ECHL affiliate there.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
When was the last time you were able to drive from Ft. Worth to Dallas in 30 minutes - the 1950s?
Tommy Hawk
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- May 27, 2006
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Saving 3 hours could be the difference in thousands of dollars and also free agent eligibility. Check the NHL CBA. Too many days on the NHL roster can lead to requiring to clear waivers, can trigger bonuses, etc. However, not much incentive for moving to ft worth from round rock which is not austin.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Not at all. Saving days is the difference between money and needing to clear waivers and trigger bonuses, not under three hours in a car. The Flames, Oilers, Panthers, Lightning, Panthers, Blues, and Penguins all have call-ups that require a flight. None of them have had any issues under the current Collective Bargaining Agreement and every single one has closer options to put their team closer to home and have minimal call-up times. When it comes to saving days, that's when issues pop-up. Not 1-2 hours.
The Stars have one of the easiest call-ups in the league already and have their affiliate in a great place, which is Cedar Park, not Round Rock. For all intents and purposes, it is Austin. The Chicago Wolves play in Rosemont, but for all intents and purposes it is Chicago. The Colorado Eagles play in Loveland, but for all intents and purposes it's Ft. Collins' team. Same goes for the Kansas City Mavericks playing in Independence, Atlanta Gladiators in Duluth, etc. Let's not split hairs over a team playing in the suburbs of a larger city. Trading the fantastic situation they're in right now (with prospect development, public attention, etc) just to save their prospects a few dozen hours in the car over a season isn't a good trade. Hence why they haven't made it and will continue not to make it.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
That'd be Cedar Park (as I now see Barclay has pointed out). Round Rock is where the MILB team plays. Though the Stars might wanna give them a try sometime.
Oh...Now you've done it!!! Be prepared for a response of HUTCHONIAN proportions!!!!
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
He's been missing recently, and while he certainly isn't missed, everyone's impersonations of him will suffer in the meantime which definitely isn't good. He's probably checking out game footage comparing the quality of play and ticket prices of the 1994 AHL Calder Cup champion Portland Pirates and the expansion ECHL Maine Mariners.
I call B.S.,he's probably in Rosemont measuring with a tape measure to see just how far Allstate Arena really is from the Chicago city limits.
Tommy Hawk
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- May 27, 2006
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First, Cedar park and Round Rock are NOT Austin. It's like saying San Jose is San Francisco or White Plains is New York City. I lived in Round Rock and it aint Austin. And the team aint the Austin Stars (or Ice Bats
)And ya gotta drive through RR to get to 35 to get to 35E to get to Dallas. ( used to make the drive twice a month from AUSTIN to north Dallas for work back when the MoPac aka the 6 pack wasn't extended.
So it is not the same situation as the Chicago Wolves who play in Rosemont or anything else you mentioned.
BTW, Chicago City Limits.
Boundaries - City
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
First, Cedar park and Round Rock are NOT Austin. It's like saying San Jose is San Francisco or White Plains is New York City. I lived in Round Rock and it aint Austin. And the team aint the Austin Stars (or Ice Bats
And ya gotta drive through RR to get to 35 to get to 35E to get to Dallas. ( used to make the drive twice a month from AUSTIN to north Dallas for work back when the MoPac aka the 6 pack wasn't extended.
So it is not the same situation as the Chicago Wolves who play in Rosemont or anything else you mentioned.
BTW, Chicago City Limits.
Boundaries - City
Now that’s splitting hairs over playing in a suburb. Are you sure you’re not Hutch? Kanata to Ottawa is a further drive than Cedar Park to Austin. We still call them the Ottawa Senators. Rosemont to the center of Chicago is a longer drive than Cedar Park is to Austin. They’re still called the Chicago Wolves. It is equidistant to the Mavericks location with respect to Kansas City and even 1.5 times closer than Duluth to Atlanta for the Gladiators. You get the point. Nice try, I’ll give you a few cracks at it again if you want.
It is not like San José and San Francisco. San José is it’s own city with more than 2 million people. There’s plenty there to make it not need something else nearby. And White Plains is literally one of the best known suburbs for NYC commuters, which would hurt your argument more than it helps. That’s an example of the rare self-defeating argument. Once again, I’ll give you a few more cracks at it if you’re up for it.
And you only made one point. I see a “first,” but no “secondly” or “next.” I’m going to assume you got so tired from thinking that being relatively near far reaching surburban sections of Chicago itself is pertinent and just got tuckered out. Both my points stand. As well as the team being much better off down there than in Dallas.
@axecrew get the tape measure and protractor out, it’s happening again.
Nah...Barc...I know tommy personally...he's about as far from Hutch as can be. Tommy actually knows things and people.
Tommy Hawk
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- May 27, 2006
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So, Rosemont actually borders Chicago, damn near surrounded by it. Look at the map.
It is the Texas Stars not the Austin Stars and we were talking about driving distance, not names.
Having made the drive, driving from downtown Austin to Dallas is way different than driving From Round Rock/Cedar Park to Dallas.
So when you decide to make the drive yourself, then you can start spewing about the difference between Cedar Park and Round Rock.
You are the one that brings up the ridiculous naming situations. I dont give a rat's patoot about the name of the clubs.
So let's go back to the original post. Being in Ft. Worth, not Arlington or Grand Prairie or Denton, or the HEB area would cut driving time by about 90 to 120 minutes depending on time of day, where they are during the call up, etc.
If you bother looking at the NHL CBA, there are very specific time deadlines for when call ups and send downs have to occur by in order for time on the NHL club, and therefore their NHL Salary ad per diems, are in effect. It also goes towards counting the number of days they are on the team for free call-ups and send downs.
All of this factors into the NHL decision as to where their AHL affiliate plays. So if it is easier for the NHL team to get their players on a flight from DFW than it is for them to drive from Cedar Park to the Austin Airport, or even the same, the flight schedule form DFW is far better than the crap schedule out of Austin.
And hutch jr, when you have traveled around the country by both plane and car as much as I have, then you can start spewing off interesting facts, until then, just try to stay sparring with hutch, who I hope is OK since he hasn't posted in a while.
mk80
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- Jul 30, 2012
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My guess is the arena's hockey usage if there is any at all will more than likely be an icebreaker type NCAA tournament/ Frozen Fours, maybe a Stars preseason game in future years, but why not play at American Airlines Center. And a real long shot, I'm talking a from my own goal line to the other end through the small cutout to win a Ferrari at intermission type shot, I guess if USA Hockey decided to host an IIHF World Junior Tournament in the DFW area then Dickies Arena could be used, but of the times the US has hosted it's been in Buffalo (multiple times), Boston, Anchorage, or Grand Forks. So I doubt the WJC is coming to Big D anytime soon.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
No crap it’s a different drive from Cedar Park to Dallas than it is to Austin. It’s the suburb of one city to a whole other city a long way away. There’s plenty of pro teams that play in the suburbs of a major city, at the end of the day they are the pro team of that city. Atlanta-Duluth, Kansas City-Independence, etc. Stop splitting hairs over suburban arenas.
Their call-up time is a couple of hours. I’ve read the CBA front to back twice out of boredom. Nowhere is there anything that would make a difference between their call up times being a 3 hours and change versus an hour or two. They already have one of the quicker call up times in the league. Now if it’s Utica to Vancouver, then per diems and bonuses will be effective because that’s a long time for a player to get called up. But two or three hours in a car doesn’t affect it, at all.
You’re the one going on about how Cedar Park isn’t Austin. That’s the most Hutchian thing in existence. Read any of his stuff about Atlanta, Kansas City, etc. The only way you could be more Hutch is if you refused to attend Maine ECHL games.
Looks like it is about 600 feet to the building and across the road from the parking lot.
(I love it when idiots say it is 15 miles from Chicago, like the Loop is the only place in a city of 3 million people)
The Dickies Arena looks similar to the Bradley Center on the inside, with fewer seats.
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Incorrect. The Penguins call-ups all drive to and from WBS. It's less than 5 hours by car. The Penguins were also known to send players straight to their ECHL affiliate in Wheeling, a little over one hour by car, and recall them because the three hour difference in time driving had cap and payroll implications.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Penguins use flights. Last season was the first time it was fully implemented. Was partially implemented the season before due to most unified occurring on the road. Airport Officials Announce Flights to Pittsburgh.
I encourage you to read it: http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA2012/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf. Two hours in a car, the difference between the current call up time for the Stars and if they moved to Dickies arena, affects absolutely none of this. It’s a call in the morning and the player is there for practice the same day. If it is in an opposite time zone, there are major cap and payroll implications. Even payroll tax comes into play for that situation. But same day, heck even same morning call ups, the CBA doesn’t come anywhere near affecting that. The roster adjustment is official and three hours later the player is there reporting. An hour versus three hours is pulling more hair than Kansas City and Independence, Atlanta and Duluth.
