Forsberg Versus Fedorov!

[Dingo]

It's not an exaggeration. Can you imagine Forsberg playing defense? No.


I will give you this: Forsberg was far more intense. In fact, this is the only aspect of the game where he was clearly superior to Fedorov, who only brought his intensity in playoffs. That said, Fedorov's skating was so effortless, it gave the false impression that he wasn't trying hard.


Which is something Peter never did. Sorry, you walked right into it.


See my first point. Forsberg was competent defensively. Fedorov was sublime.

And yes, the talking point that all Wings players sacrificed their offense under Bowman is 100% true. From Yzerman to Shanahan, from Fedorov to Hull. Fedorov played whatever position he was put in, whatever role he was asked. It hurt his offensive stats. Luckily, there is more to life than that.

Scored 30 twice. Not sure what I walked into.
In fact, Fedorov’s goal scoring edge is much less than I had expected. He had his 50 goal season before Forsberg entered the league and before scoring had dropped.
Going from 1995-96 to 2003-2004, Fedorov scored at a .41 goals per game clip, while Forsberg managed a .38.
When I wrote my post I had figured Fedorov would have a bigger edge.
For me, that gap does little to cut into the 1.30 points per game that Peter managed over the same period (behind only Mario and Jagr), with Sergei managing .94
And Fedorov brought it in the playoffs, and was actually on defense sometimes. The guy was a beauty.
Perhaps one’s definition of a two way player will alter how we have this conversation. I will double down that being the third best offensive producer in the league during their primes that overlapped, while garnering four top tens in Selke voting, including a runner up and a 4th, while playing a physical and intense game does not leave a ton of wiggle room for anyone else to claim to be ‘a far superior two way player’
Notice I’m not even saying that Fedorov wasn’t, in fact, a better two way player. I only have a problem with ‘far superior’
As hard as it was for Sergei to produce elite offense from a very defensive role, it seems it would also be very hard to be much more responsible defensively than Forsberg while also playing a role so offensive that only two all time great players, who focused almost solely on offense, managed to do better than him.
Both quite remarkable, actually.

 

[overg]

I don't know how much stock you put in Wikipedia Jack, but on Sergei's "Wikipedia" page it's indicated Jimmy Devellano was convinced if Bowman left Fedorov on D that Sergei would've won a Norris Trophy. I thought of that after reading your post!

This is just total nonsense, and I don't believe Devellano actually believed this. He was just hyping up one of his own players. Fedorov wasn't even one of the top 3 defensemen *on the Wings* in 1997 (Konstantinov, Lidstrom, Murphy). Does anyone really think that even if he'd stayed at the position for the rest of his career, he would have surpassed MacInnis, Pronger, or Lidstrom (the guys who won the next slew of Norris trophies)?

Even Bowman's recent claim that Fedorov could have been an All Star defenseman is a little suspect, although that at least enters the realm of plausibility given that it's not unusual for offensive-defenseman to place in the running for that sort of vote.

But don't overestimate Fedorov's prowess as a defenseman. He was moved to the position because he was slumping at forward and complaining about ice time. And he was a serviceable defenseman who did offer some higher end offense from that position. But he was no where close to being Norris trophy level.

 

[Troubadour]

But don't overestimate Fedorov's prowess as a defenseman. He was moved to the position because he was slumping at forward and complaining about ice time. And he was a serviceable defenseman who did offer some higher end offense from that position. But he was no where close to being Norris trophy level.

The bolded is what I remember about this "affair" as well. It was a lesson and I always thought that Bowman's praise was a good strategy of keeping the public away from what was actually going on behind the scene, and also a bit of apology towards Feds. In the tone of "I bossed you alright. You know you were a pain in the butt then. Gotta say tho, you took it like a man and you did a pretty good job. Let's leave this behind us. Or maybe not? Those were the days of our lives after all."

But it has taken on a life of its own since then. Like a Greek myth.

EDIT: Btw I seriously do believe that Forsberg would have made a great defender. He read the play extremely well, he was a couple of steps ahead, he would never shy away from contact, he was a great. great passer, he was intelligent, he was unselfish. I can't find the video of that play he made when actually playing on defense on an off-shift, but it resulted in a goal and not into his own net.

We have this though:

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Fedorov was like a souped-up version of a young Mike Fisher in Ottawa: speed, checking, stickhandling but LIMITED VISION, eager to shoot, not a playmaking, passing center.

Forsberg was a playmaking passer who protected the puck until the perfect opportunity arose to pass or shoot, at times waiting too long, just cycling over and over.

Put Foppa's hockey vision, puck management and grit with Feds' wheels, stickwork and propensity to shoot... and you'd have a complete player.

A very cool photo/action shot for this thread!! Love it!

 

[Troubadour]

A very cool photo/action shot for this thread!! Love it!

How about this one:

 

[overg]

How about this one:

On the positive side of Fedorov's mercurial nature, he very often brought it, big time, when matched-up against super-elite centers. This definitely included Forsberg, as Fedorov regularly played like he wanted to be the best player in the world when matched head to head against him (Gretzky was another guy who Fedorov tended to play out of his mind against).

 

[Troubadour]

On the positive side of Fedorov's mercurial nature, he very often brought it, big time, when matched-up against super-elite centers. This definitely included Forsberg, as Fedorov regularly played like he wanted to be the best player in the world when matched head to head with him (Gretzky was another guy who Fedorov tended to play out of his mind against).

That's very true (to my eye), but this is also the reason I pick Forsberg, who was a great competitor all the time and he too kicked it up in the playoffs.

Sergei had that extra gear and he controlled it and he indeed knew when and how to turn it on. But I'm a fan. I don't want to see vintage Fedorov ten games a year.

As for that video, after everything that has been said, it feels appropriate to point out Fedorov was 32 going on 33 in that series and he surely did not look like someone who had lost their wheels, so I'm not sure what @ThePanther is on about, always saying Fedorov's speed somehow vanished at any point. The naturally fast, long-striding lanky skaters seldom get slow.

And Fedorov was exceptional anyway. Here he is (going on 40 at the time) scoring his last NHL goal. If this is slow, we should probably tell his shirt it's not alright to flap:



Fedorov was an insane skater. Saying he was ever slow is so silly not even @Sentinel really bothered disproving it, which is kinda cool.

EDIT: This one has a slo-mo of the goal that clearly shows Feds was still a shirt-flapping speedster at 39.

 

[danincanada]

On the positive side of Fedorov's mercurial nature, he very often brought it, big time, when matched-up against super-elite centers. This definitely included Forsberg, as Fedorov regularly played like he wanted to be the best player in the world when matched head to head against him (Gretzky was another guy who Fedorov tended to play out of his mind against).

I don't remember how much Fedorov and Forsberg actually went head to head but in the 5 playoff series they faced each other Fedorov had 27 points in 30 games and Forsberg had 28 points in 29 games. Pretty close. I'd definitely rather be the guy trying to help his team score on the non-Roy goalie come playoff time but Fedorov had other team advantages for the most part such as better coaching and better defenders to play with. Forsberg probably had slightly better wingers, especially in the Lemieux-Kamensky days where Fedorov had Kozlov-Brown. In '02 Yzerman-Shanny weren't exactly poor wingers.

 

[sr edler]

Fedorov shadowed by Bure. 94–95 season.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Fedorov shadowed by Bure. 94–95 season.

Thank you for sharing! I don't know why put I'm becoming a "picture junkie" in this thread! I can appreciate some of these cool action shots!