Former Ottawa Senators executive sues Melnyk, team for $1.55M
- Thread starter ekarlsson65
- Start date
DrEasy
Out rumptackling
It's not the CMO's fault the Sens fumbled the Alfie contract, traded away or got rid of exciting and exotic players and turned it into a boring, "white bread", full of "grit" and "leadership" (again meaning "white bread") team only Don Cherry would love.
I've been going to fewer games in recent years, because other than EK and Stone there's not much that excites me. Da Costa, Ziba were guys I wanted to watch in person. Having a big contingent of Swedish, Czech, Slovak players with gobs of skill was exciting. The GSN line, Boro as forward, Phillips on the PP, Ceci on the 3vs3 only make me cringe and are not what I want to watch. No amount of marketing would change my mind.
Fix the team, get with the times and embrace analytics, welcome players from all sorts of backgrounds (hint: Russia also has hockey players!) and I'll get back to spending my money on you. And you can use whatever lame slogan or jersey you like.
I've been going to fewer games in recent years, because other than EK and Stone there's not much that excites me. Da Costa, Ziba were guys I wanted to watch in person. Having a big contingent of Swedish, Czech, Slovak players with gobs of skill was exciting. The GSN line, Boro as forward, Phillips on the PP, Ceci on the 3vs3 only make me cringe and are not what I want to watch. No amount of marketing would change my mind.
Fix the team, get with the times and embrace analytics, welcome players from all sorts of backgrounds (hint: Russia also has hockey players!) and I'll get back to spending my money on you. And you can use whatever lame slogan or jersey you like.
DrEasy
Out rumptackling
I mean look at this:
- Out: Alfie (Sweden), in: MacArthur (NA)
- Out: Silf (Sweden), in: Ryan (NA)
- Out: Rundblad (Sweden), in: Turris (NA)
- Out: Da Costa (France), in: nobody
- Out: Ziba (Sweden/Iran FFS), in: Brassard (NA)
Don Cherryism at its best.
And we probably would find similar bias in our drafting in recent years.
- Out: Alfie (Sweden), in: MacArthur (NA)
- Out: Silf (Sweden), in: Ryan (NA)
- Out: Rundblad (Sweden), in: Turris (NA)
- Out: Da Costa (France), in: nobody
- Out: Ziba (Sweden/Iran FFS), in: Brassard (NA)
Don Cherryism at its best.
And we probably would find similar bias in our drafting in recent years.
So if Ottawa went 0-82 but had a mix of players from all over this world to you that's more exciting.
While it still has to go to court, I have to admit, none of this surprises me in terms of Eugene's end of things. He's come across as a childish blowhard for a long time. Passionate? Yes, but also volatile.
What is surprising is the number of people trying to defend Eugene and the team, to the point of even throwing Leeder, one of the franchise's founders, under the bus (I also love how some critics are ignoring that a third party consulting group also gave O'Leary a positive endorsement for his work). As O'Leary brings up, how is he supposed to bring in or retain good marketing talent when this is how the team's owner runs things? Face facts: the Sens are so stingy that they cut janatorial staff. I'd love to hear how many other teams do that.
And as for ticket sales, did Melnyk ever stop to consider how the whole government pay system could have impacted things? And frankly, talking to a lot of fans, both online and in person, you really got a sense of apathy early in the season largely due to the team being mediocre for almost a decade (seriously, basically missing the playoffs every other year, winning one round in 9 seasons, etc.) and from Menyk embarassing the team and himself almost every time he opens his mouth. Maybe Euge should take a long look at himself and how he does things instead of only blaming others?
But then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. There were Leafs fans who defended Harold Ballard back in the day.
What is surprising is the number of people trying to defend Eugene and the team, to the point of even throwing Leeder, one of the franchise's founders, under the bus (I also love how some critics are ignoring that a third party consulting group also gave O'Leary a positive endorsement for his work). As O'Leary brings up, how is he supposed to bring in or retain good marketing talent when this is how the team's owner runs things? Face facts: the Sens are so stingy that they cut janatorial staff. I'd love to hear how many other teams do that.
And as for ticket sales, did Melnyk ever stop to consider how the whole government pay system could have impacted things? And frankly, talking to a lot of fans, both online and in person, you really got a sense of apathy early in the season largely due to the team being mediocre for almost a decade (seriously, basically missing the playoffs every other year, winning one round in 9 seasons, etc.) and from Menyk embarassing the team and himself almost every time he opens his mouth. Maybe Euge should take a long look at himself and how he does things instead of only blaming others?
But then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. There were Leafs fans who defended Harold Ballard back in the day.
Its fine to complain about Melynk but its another thing to compare him to Ballard as for other teams people would be shocked how tight some of the richest teams are sure they might spend on player payroll but its shocking when it comes other what they don't spend on.
danielpalfredsson
youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
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Ticket sales are probably down for the following reasons....
-Having to compete with a second pro team in the Redblacks who have been insanely successful. Same demographic. People don't have infinite money.
-Failure to build up and capitalize on Erik Karlsson's star power. Generational player. Plays an exciting style. I'm told is good looking. Will likely go down as one of the all-time greats who people "tell their grandchildren about seeing play".
-Uninspired marketing campaigns combined with a tired brand that desperately needs a facelift. They've had the same jerseys for the last decade, which for a non-original 6 team is insane.
-Inconsistent seasons/not consistently winning which is made worse by the optics of the Sens being portrayed as a team too cheap to spend what it takes to win (whether or not that is true). Winning isn't always possible in a 30 team league, but having inconsistency being surrounded by the stink of being perceived as a "cheap" organization who would be winning if they spent more isn't the greatest look.
danielpalfredsson
youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
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Are you suggesting the management should make their decisions purely based on having the most multi-culturally marketable team possible rather than putting together the best hockey team possible? Seems a bit far fetched.
As far as the type of team they've chosen to build, and the type of system that is now in place. We've tried being a run and gun team in the past, it doesn't work with the kind of skill and budget the Sens have available to them. A systems coach like Guy Boucher is what was needed to get the best out of a budget squad. It's just the reality of running a budget team, they have to work with what they have.
aragorn
Do The Right Thing
- Aug 8, 2004
- 28,596
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This is absolute nonsense, I've argued for yrs they don't have enough grit. And how do they not have enough skill, they are only a couple of yrs away from being 5th in the league in scoring? It's been GB who has changed this team into being more defensively responsible since they were next to last in the league in shots against & goals against & I assume he believes that a good defensive team wins championships. I guess he also didn't count on the offence somewhat drying up.
A lot of people think that winning the Stanley Cup is the hardest trophy in sports to win, it's much harder to build a winning team than most on here seem to think. Pitt & Edm won the lottery with McDavid & Crosby & then they won it again with Malkin & Draisaitl. Maybe that is what you are upset about that Ottawa should have tanked in numerous yrs to be in a position to draft the best young prospects or the best young Swedish prospects. But as we have found out even though we have drafted some players we thought would lead Ottawa to a cup it doesn't always work out.
I'm also not sure why so many are upset, Ottawa is in 2nd place in their division which still puts them in a playoff spot & isn't that the first objective of ever NHL team is to first make the playoffs. There will be 15 other teams who don't make the playoffs who are in a worse position than Ottawa, shouldn't their fans be more upset? What is it that you want? A playoff team, a non-playoff team, a more Swedish team, a more skilled team, less grit & how in hell can you control this? What if you have a really good skilled team & your goalie let's in a couple of weak goals & you lose the playoff round anyway? Sports is entertainment & whenever you have people involved their will be mistakes & let's not forget that you have twenty other guys sitting on the other bench who are just as determined to win as our team. Nobody can predict success even the best players in the world lose games & some never win a championship.
Grizz MacArthur
GRIZZ
Stéphane Da Costa being used as part of a ticket sales decline argument is really funny. Good Lord people.
DrEasy
Out rumptackling
That's just my opinion as a ticket-buying customer. I used to pay a lot of $$$ to watch Havlat, Hossa, Alfie, Chara, etc. Burrows, Kelly, Brassard just don't excite me, and it's a combo of the style of play and the lack of exciting players. Sure, I don't care if Schubert is from Germany since his play is uninspiring, but having a guy like Ziba who was different, young, promising and was contributing definitely gets me interested. I have his jersey.
Yes, I suck. Too bad, because I paid money to watch that guy and now I don't. All sorts of stupid people pay to watch games, and I'm one of them. Now we stupid people don't pay to watch games. Keep laughing at me.
Yes, sarcasm will bring attendance back!
DrEasy
That was when they were young would people pay to see those guys now not likely as all outside of Alfredson are not the player they once were.
That was when they were young would people pay to see those guys now not likely as all outside of Alfredson are not the player they once were.
I have no problem with you thinking the current players on the team are boring, but focusing on location of birth, is really weird.
Not to mention we have one of the most dynamic defenseman to ever play the game on the team, who happens to be European, therefore meeting your geographical requirement.
Also, 85% of the time Zibanejad looked disinterested, and he played a boring style anyway. Weird example.
I dunno, I think I would be just as annoyed with these executives milking giant bonuses while the marketing tanks and the building is empty. EM brought in some new blood with proven experience. I don't really fault him at all.
If it was your own company, you'd run it however you want. It's not a country club established to pay out huge salaries to people who don't perform.
If it was your own company, you'd run it however you want. It's not a country club established to pay out huge salaries to people who don't perform.
tony d
Registered User
Yeah, Melnyk seems to be among the worst owners in the league. Hopefully he will find a new co-owner soon or sell the team entirely.
I don't think he would be in the bottom 5 as a rule the worse owners are the biggest and richest there the hardest to work for.
IlTerrifico
Registered User
- Oct 24, 2016
- 615
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The ticket sales of this team are terrible somehow, yet Chicago, a city and surrounding area about 6x as big as Ottawa could barely get 10K fans before Toews and Kane, when they were playing like this 1 playoff series win in 10 years collection?
If the marketing is so bad, give me an example of something better. What comes to mind is Cheaper, Less-talented and Short Several Good Players Due to Ownership Meddling.
Or maybe A Team With Many, Many Stanley Cups....won by players who left town in the last decade.
If the marketing is so bad, give me an example of something better. What comes to mind is Cheaper, Less-talented and Short Several Good Players Due to Ownership Meddling.
Or maybe A Team With Many, Many Stanley Cups....won by players who left town in the last decade.
I get annoyed of the desire for grit/character over seemingly everything else too, but I couldn't care less where a player is from.
You've just compared Havlat, Hossa, Alfie and Chara to a couple of old bottom 6 players and Brassard. Of course you preferred the first group, that's a group of all-stars. Burrows, Kelly and Brassard aren't the equivalent players on this team. That would be Karlsson, Turris, Hoffman and Stone. You've criticized Cherry for wanting his team a certain way, but you're doing the same thing. You want a bunch of Europeans, they're exciting to you. A guy like Da Costa was worth the price of admission for you. You've presented the Turris trade in a negative light which is insane, that was a great hockey trade; who cares if it was a Swedish prospect going the other way?
pepty
Let's win it all
- Feb 22, 2005
- 13,457
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It is a shame that this hit the press just one day before Melnyks big gala for the launch of his organ donation charity.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...anning-push-for-organ-donors/article34514000/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...anning-push-for-organ-donors/article34514000/
YOW
Registered User
Yes, thank you.
I'm not debating O'leary's job performance but how unprofessional Melyck is. Lots of companies terminate a contract of an employee that is not performing up to a standard or producing results. Its how Melnyck in an unhinged way deals with his employees that this lawsuit is shining a light on a dark and ugly corner. You just have to listen to what Melnyck has to say and how he says it to make a very short leap of faith to say this lawsuit has somegrain of truth. It' up to the judge to determine how to apportion blame and accountability.
But IMHO if someone is bat**** crazy here it's not O'Leary.
Edit: I'm not advocating for him to sell the team. Just be a professional and run a team we can all be proud of.
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danielpalfredsson
youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
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Attendance was down because the team has been inconsistent, and they failed to put out a product people wanted to see while having to compete with a new pro team in town since the emergence of the Redblacks. Realistically, prior to CFL returning to Ottawa the Sens were the only pro team in town. There was no competition for season ticket money or sports fan dollars other than from the 67s which is more of a niche product. Even during the Renegades stint, the Renegades were poorly run and the Sens were red hot at the time so they never really materialized as competition in the same way the Redblacks have.
With that said, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT BETTER MARKETING COULDN'T HAVE BOOSTED TICKET SALES RELATIVE TO WHERE THEY WERE AT.
You want examples of something better?
Two things drive the box office for sports, winning and stars. The Sens have one real star....Erik Karlsson. Marketing should be built around the spectacle of seeing the best offensive defender since Bobby Orr in his prime. How special that is.
The commercials are completely tone deaf. At least based on what their audience should be. One example, it seems like they have one generic commercial with a fallout boy song or something that blares on CTV 20 times a morning. (They may have changed the song since, but it is still the same generic formula) So they decided to put this commercial on CTV at that time, but who is the demographic that watches the CTV morning shows from 7-12 when those stupid commercials are blaring? Likely stay at home parents, people with families, retired folks. I'm not a marketing expert, but how does a commercial like that resonate with that type of person? What pushes the buttons of a stay at home parent/mom/dad to make them want to spend money on tickets to a hockey game? Do they want to LIGHTEMUPUPUPUPUP IM ON FIRE. No they don't want their kids on fire that is their nightmare. Why aren't commercials airing in morning times appealing to the desire of that demographic who might be more interested in investing in a memory with their children, or even something vain like the status of taking your family to an NHL game? Nvm...they wanna lightemupupup THEY'RE ON FIRE.....
Lastly....the team has far from a tried and tested look, yet we've kept the exact same jerseys for a decade. Other than not wanting to liquidate stock of old Sens jerseys at the arena, there has been no excuse not to create a new look that would actually resonate with the fan base. Even if the "United In Red" 3D centurion Edge branding was considered to be something that resonated ten years ago, it is very rare for an NHL team to keep their jerseys that long. This era of the team needs its own look that it can be defined by and sold under.
Your argument is basically "teams don't sell well when they don't win marketing isn't a problem". You're half right. Teams don't sell tickets well when they don't win, but marketing is still a problem. It is all relative. Better marketing would allow the team to sell more and maintain relevance during less inspired stretches.
disgruntled terminated employee files wrongful dismissal suit.....news at 6
ticket sales are down....ticket sales guy gets fired....news at 10
self made billionaire is really a ruthless business man....news at 11
of course this dude is going to say a whole bunch of $hit and making it all public is part of a pressure tactic. pay me a bunch of money or else.
I don't have an issue with Leeder being let go. he did a job for 25 years that most people on this board would die for. And he made a ton of money doing it. The team is embarking on a 4 billion dollar development deal. is Leeder qualified to lead that? no. If it was your money would you take the chance that it works out under him? I wouldn't.
Melnyk is a business man and a damn good one. He's self made and is the 78th richest person in Canada. Many of those above him didn't make their money, they were born into it. You don't get to where he is in life being everyones buddy and best friend. Anyone that's worked a high end tech job in this town with performance objectives that they didn't meet knows what happens.
But but but a 3rd party consulting firm said....bull $hit. I've worked for a couple of them and they're all ****** that write whatever you pay them to write and they charge you a lot of money to write it.
Phoenix payroll system. That one was funny. I have yet to read a story in the newspaper where the writer actually understands the situation they are writing about.
The man had an employment contract. Eugene might be a lot of things but stupid he isn't. Too many government people in this town that don't understand how industry works. people get terminated and lawyer up all the time. done it myself. there is no work force adjustment agreement in industry. my sense is that if there was real legitimacy to this situation it wouldn't be in the paper as a sob story for maximum damage. If the man has legitimate claim to bonus money based on targets he'll get it. he'll get the severance he's entitled to also. but Eugene isn't stupid. i doubt, tyrant or not, that he'd not respect provisions in contracts, then get threatened with lawsuits and going public over not meeting contractual obligations and simply tell them to go ahead and sue him unless he felt he was on proper legal footing.
As for the team we've had a rough number of years treading in mediocrity after a long run of relative greatness. we now seem to be on the upswing and hopefully our recent injuries don't cost us a playoff spot. Sometimes I think we got spoiled making the playoffs for 20 years. That was a real privilege not a right.
ticket sales are down....ticket sales guy gets fired....news at 10
self made billionaire is really a ruthless business man....news at 11
of course this dude is going to say a whole bunch of $hit and making it all public is part of a pressure tactic. pay me a bunch of money or else.
I don't have an issue with Leeder being let go. he did a job for 25 years that most people on this board would die for. And he made a ton of money doing it. The team is embarking on a 4 billion dollar development deal. is Leeder qualified to lead that? no. If it was your money would you take the chance that it works out under him? I wouldn't.
Melnyk is a business man and a damn good one. He's self made and is the 78th richest person in Canada. Many of those above him didn't make their money, they were born into it. You don't get to where he is in life being everyones buddy and best friend. Anyone that's worked a high end tech job in this town with performance objectives that they didn't meet knows what happens.
But but but a 3rd party consulting firm said....bull $hit. I've worked for a couple of them and they're all ****** that write whatever you pay them to write and they charge you a lot of money to write it.
Phoenix payroll system. That one was funny. I have yet to read a story in the newspaper where the writer actually understands the situation they are writing about.
The man had an employment contract. Eugene might be a lot of things but stupid he isn't. Too many government people in this town that don't understand how industry works. people get terminated and lawyer up all the time. done it myself. there is no work force adjustment agreement in industry. my sense is that if there was real legitimacy to this situation it wouldn't be in the paper as a sob story for maximum damage. If the man has legitimate claim to bonus money based on targets he'll get it. he'll get the severance he's entitled to also. but Eugene isn't stupid. i doubt, tyrant or not, that he'd not respect provisions in contracts, then get threatened with lawsuits and going public over not meeting contractual obligations and simply tell them to go ahead and sue him unless he felt he was on proper legal footing.
As for the team we've had a rough number of years treading in mediocrity after a long run of relative greatness. we now seem to be on the upswing and hopefully our recent injuries don't cost us a playoff spot. Sometimes I think we got spoiled making the playoffs for 20 years. That was a real privilege not a right.
The Lewler
GOAT BUDGET AINEC
lol what fresh hell is this calamity?
Rundblad is trash.
Silfverberg is bad and lives on here only through what can only be described as pathological fanboi-ism.
Stephane DeCosta was a Tiny Tim who couldn't get it done in the NHL.
In summary, your obsession with country of origin makes you the bigot.
