Former Canucks and Management | 2

[timw33]

And even more importantly, a much more likeable tandem.

This is one thing I really don't like about the team—I don't think Miller is likeable, and worse, he's not good enough to make me forget that he isn't likeable. It's the Tim Thomas principle: clearly he's a nut and a total a**hat, but he was so out of this world good for a few years that who gives a damn.

Lack had a great attitude, and was a super likeable guy, and is putting up similar numbers for a fraction of the price.

Schnieder and Luongo were also both incredibly personable and I miss that presence in net. Looking forward to the days without Miller, and also importantly, not having Miller being marketed down our throats. It's like marketing that we have Jonas Hiller in net.

 

[mathonwy]

Whether you like him or not doesn't change the fact he barely put up any points after being taken off the twins wing.

His long history of not being able to put up points doesn't help as well.

Ya know... WD didn't figure out where to put Sutter before Sutter got injured...

WD spent the entire pre-season and 16 regular season games trying to figure it out.

 

[mathonwy]

That doesn't change that all the handwringing over Kassian (in comparison to other players) isn't because of the belief that he is talented and could turn into a star (or whatever.)

I don't see people as upset with Brad Richardson or with Shane O'Brien. One is a recent roster player and the other is a player who liked to party.

Don't misunderstand me: I'm very critical of this management group. I just feel that the amount of noise re: this Kassian fiasco is much ado about nothing.

Brad Richardson is a career bottom 6er. Shane O'Brien is a career 6-7-8 pairing d-man..

Both players have reached their final form.

Kassian hasn't. Not by a long shot.

Unlike Richardson or O'Brien (or Hodgson for that matter), Kassian was blessed with silky smooth hockey hands. Unfortunately, his brain hasn't gotten there yet but my gut tells me that Kass will get there eventually. Every interview I've seen of him tells me that he's a genuine dude that wants to succeed.

So there's the hockey potential that JB pissed down the toilet with his weakminded general management skills; and

there's the emotional fan connection piece that JB and co are equally clueless about.

- 2013-14 was a soul crushing experience.
- 2014-15 felt like redemption (excluding the playoffs) and that redemption included Kassian and Lack. Those two guys struck a pretty deep cord in the hearts of the Canuck fanbase (this is not my opinion, rather, this is my conclusion based on how many damn Kassian gifs I saw) and JB ****ed all of that up royally. JB traded both players and then unintentionally tanked the team into the crapper.

So this Kassian fiasco you're talking about, it's representative of how JB ****ed this team up.

Amongst all of JB's moves as a GM, this transaction leaves a particularly nasty taste in my mouth

 

[Intangibos]

Brad Richardson is a career bottom 6er. Shane O'Brien is a career 6-7-8 pairing d-man..

Both players have reached their final form.

Kassian hasn't. Not by a long shot.

Unlike Richardson or O'Brien (or Hodgson for that matter), Kassian was blessed with silky smooth hockey hands. Unfortunately, his brain hasn't gotten there yet but my gut tells me that Kass will get there eventually. Every interview I've seen of him tells me that he's a genuine dude that wants to succeed.

So there's the hockey potential that JB pissed down the toilet with his weakminded general management skills; and

there's the emotional fan connection piece that JB and co are equally clueless about.

- 2013-14 was a soul crushing experience.
- 2014-15 felt like redemption (excluding the playoffs) and that redemption included Kassian and Lack. Those two guys struck a pretty deep cord in the hearts of the Canuck fanbase (this is not my opinion, rather, this is my conclusion based on how many damn Kassian gifs I saw) and JB ****ed all of that up royally. JB traded both players and then unintentionally tanked the team into the crapper.

So this Kassian fiasco you're talking about, it's representative of how JB ****ed this team up.

Amongst all of JB's moves as a GM, this transaction leaves a particularly nasty taste in my mouth

And then proclaimed he did a good and made the team better

 

[coldsteel79]

Maybe Cam Ward will be available - he's got a Conn Smythe on his resume.

Markstrom is Bennings guy, have you not heard him drooling over marky all last season?

 

[racerjoe]

You're kidding yourself if you think there's a lot there around the twins, because there isn't. When Benning traded Kesler it was game over for this team, you can't compete in the league unless you have strength down the middle, and, Burrows was declining badly.

There weren't any good players when he took over the team other than the Sedins, that's incorrect, unless you're talking about good bottom six players? In that case, who cares, you don't win with two top six guys and a bunch of bottom six players.

I think the guys, not you, who say we had assets are full of crap, for the very reason you just stated, those kids came outta nowhere to make the club.

Well when they tell you that garbage, about it being a better team, perhaps you could make up your own mind and think, no it's no, because it isn't. Every move he made was lateral, except I think Sutter is slightly better than Bonino.

Agreed about strength down the middle, and Benning keeps making that position weaker and weaker.

you don't just need two studs, how many teams have that? Depth can come in other ways, like having above average 3rd and 4th guys, and a few other NHL quality guys to step in. This current team doesn't have that.

There was other options we let walk that could play the middle, Santoreli, Mathias, and Richardson all would improve this team. Hell when we had two of them we were a playoff team.

My guess is you think I think this team could easily be cup contenders, and I am not saying that. I am simply saying this team could be what Benning said it is. With better management we could be a payoff team. Look at ATTK's lineup and tell me that is not better than what we have? It also has more youth.

Define good players.

Hansen? Edler? Tanev? the return from Kesler? again our overall depth, meaning having a Hansen on the 4th line?

I still think Burrows could be a 25 goal scorer with the twins, and it would free Hansen up to help Horvat.

to retool it was simple, you trade Kesler for futures, you trade Edler for futures. Again don't know if that would make us contenders, but probably make us a better team. instead we pissed Garrisson away and wasted the value of Kesler.

 

[thepoeticgoblin]

Markstrom is Bennings guy, have you not heard him drooling over marky all last season?

One of his few redeeming features, being pro-Marky. Other than that, I disagree with most of his decisions this far (even if I think the criticism he receives is a bit OTP at times)

 

[arttk]

Considering you had said that Kassian had done nothing to warrant being placed into "stage 1 again" (hint: you don't get put into stage 1 "again") and I've explained this to you numerous times, yes, I would say so.

You do realize putting in stage 1 again was something suggested by the poster you replied to and I was then one saying that doesn't happen.

So it seems like you have no idea what I am talking about.

 

[arttk]

Some questions... which 6m 2LW do you propose we acquired? How did you manage to convince the Ducks to pony up Vatanen / Theodore; or which D UFA did we acquire? How did Kassian not only dodge his substance abuse issues but lock down a spot on the top line.

It might make the playoffs and unceremoniously get dumped in the first round, but TBH -- if your lineup suffered the same kinds of injuries we had this year (2C out(Sutter), 3LW out(Higgins), 4LW out (Prust), 1D out(Tanev), 2D out(Hamhuis), 3D out(Sbisa), 3D out(Hutton), 1C unable to sit ), you'd probably be in pretty much the same position as the Canucks are now with everyone calling for YOUR head.

I never mention Vantanen or Theodore, I just said don't get Sbisa. I mean just not getting him makes that trade better.

I need to comb through the UFA list, I mean it is money to spend and I do remember there were good #2 wingers around and some posters point out Perrault could've been a good choice.

I didn't list out 13th forward but I think with the lineup I listed, there should be more than enough cap for a center that we stash in the pressbox, not to mention Zalewski should be signed to a Canuck contract so he can be called up and Gaunce moved back to center as well.

And the lineup I listed, I forgot about Higgins I think. So I guess that should answer how much deeper that lineup would be. And when is a 4th line winger being injured ever a concern?

I think with Henrik out, whatever roster you put together will be ****ed so it's not like I am saying we can put together something that is Sedin injury proof.

Apply the same logic to any other team, take out their 1st line center and they are pretty messed up.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

This is one thing I really don't like about the team—I don't think Miller is likeable, and worse, he's not good enough to make me forget that he isn't likeable. It's the Tim Thomas principle: clearly he's a nut and a total a**hat, but he was so out of this world good for a few years that who gives a damn.

Lack had a great attitude, and was a super likeable guy, and is putting up similar numbers for a fraction of the price.

Schnieder and Luongo were also both incredibly personable and I miss that presence in net. Looking forward to the days without Miller, and also importantly, not having Miller being marketed down our throats. It's like marketing that we have Jonas Hiller in net.

If Miller has taught me anything, it's that a goalie can live off a reputation built by one excellent season.

 

[Hit the post]

If Miller has taught me anything, it's that a goalie can live off a reputation built by one excellent season.

Jimbo can be suckered by that one excellent season.....welcome to the Vancouver Canucks Cam Ward....

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Jimbo can be suckered by that one excellent season.....welcome to the Vancouver Canucks Cam Ward....

Benning was behind the drafting of Miller in Buffalo, so I think that's a longer thing. I'm more referring to the media who thinks Miller is still a #1 goalie in this league and the fans who in 2012 still thought Miller was a top #3 goalie in the league. All hogwash to me.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

You do realize putting in stage 1 again was something suggested by the poster you replied to and I was then one saying that doesn't happen.

So it seems like you have no idea what I am talking about.

I'm talking about your posts in this thread, to me:

Did he do enough to re enter stage 1? No. Benning said that never happened under him. Ok so did he do anything to enter stage 2? No, because that would've been automatic and public.

Both bolded statements are inaccurate.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Kassian hasn't. Not by a long shot.

That is debatable. Kassian could be veering into Brad Isbister (or worse) territory. We'll see.

but my gut tells me that Kass will get there eventually

This is what I mean -- there is a lot of fan attachment to ZK that isn't grounded in a lot of reality. I'm not denying Kassian has the physical tools to be a solid NHL player, but the way he is tracking should be cause for concern.

So this Kassian fiasco you're talking about, it's representative of how JB ****ed this team up.

What I mean by fiasco is how people are acting like we made a deal along the lines of the Neely trade. I really think people are overvaluing Kassian and his general worth and are instead focusing heavily on his potential, while ignoring some of the very real problems that existed with him.

The reason why I brought up the Richardson comparison is because he was a recent roster player who was a valuable contributor...and the Canucks are missing a player like him on the team this year. I view passing on Richardson to be a dumb mistake from Dim Jim, a mistake that has been compounded because he failed to address the team's lack of depth at the C position this season.

The reason I brought up SOB is because he was a guy folks on here liked to joke about because he liked to party, and aren't sad that he's gone. Didn't Burrows pretend to snort blow or something once to piss him off?

Yet everyone is quick to write a guy like him off, but are wringing their hands over Kassian. Not because they're worried about his well being, but because it is either a way for them to blast Benning over a perceived wrong or because they like Kassian and think he makes the team better. It's stupid.

 

[arttk]

I'm talking about your posts in this thread, to me:



Both bolded statements are inaccurate.

Yes that was in response of how Stoll is not in stage 2 despite being caught with Coke. You don't go into stage 2 unless you have been in stage 1.

Like I said he didn't enter stage 1 with Benning and he didn't do anything that broke the rules that would automatically send him to stage2.

Like I said, figure out what I am saying before respondingz

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Brad Richardson is a career bottom 6er. Shane O'Brien is a career 6-7-8 pairing d-man..

Both players have reached their final form.

Kassian hasn't. Not by a long shot.

Unlike Richardson or O'Brien (or Hodgson for that matter), Kassian was blessed with silky smooth hockey hands. Unfortunately, his brain hasn't gotten there yet but my gut tells me that Kass will get there eventually. Every interview I've seen of him tells me that he's a genuine dude that wants to succeed.

So there's the hockey potential that JB pissed down the toilet with his weakminded general management skills; and

there's the emotional fan connection piece that JB and co are equally clueless about.

- 2013-14 was a soul crushing experience.
- 2014-15 felt like redemption (excluding the playoffs) and that redemption included Kassian and Lack. Those two guys struck a pretty deep cord in the hearts of the Canuck fanbase (this is not my opinion, rather, this is my conclusion based on how many damn Kassian gifs I saw) and JB ****ed all of that up royally. JB traded both players and then unintentionally tanked the team into the crapper.

So this Kassian fiasco you're talking about, it's representative of how JB ****ed this team up.

Amongst all of JB's moves as a GM, this transaction leaves a particularly nasty taste in my mouth

Easy tiger, Kassian has to proove hes anything more than a 25 point Pugilist before it's worth getting upset like that. Are you forgetting nobody wanted him, and he got booted out of Montreal in a couple of months? Like someone above me said there is a lot of bizarre fan attachment to Kassian and Lack that don't make sense in reality.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

You don't go into stage 2 unless you have been in stage 1.

That is incorrect.

Like I said, figure out what I am saying before respondingz

I know what you were saying. The portion I quoted was part of a discussion between me and you re: Kassian. You were babbling on about Kassian re-entering phase 1.

 

[arttk]

That is incorrect.



I know what you were saying. The portion I quoted was part of a discussion between me and you re: Kassian. You were babbling on about Kassian re-entering phase 1.

So you are saying that if you **** up enough you get fast tracked into stage 2?

That was in response to what draxos said about reentering stage 1 when Benning was around. Like I said, even Benning said that didn't happen.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

So you are saying that if you **** up enough you get fast tracked into stage 2?

That was in response to what draxos said about reentering stage 1 when Benning was around. Like I said, even Benning said that didn't happen.

You should click on the link I helpfully provided to you. That was not in response to draxos, it was in response to a discussion you were having with me, in this thread.

Also, yes, there are conditions where a player can be immediately placed into phase 2. This has been explained to you before.

 

[quat]

And that's what the sedins and the Canucks organization knows, this year and maybe next are gonna suck, next free agency I'm guessing lucic will be added, bo and McCann will be a year wiser, we'll have some push on defence from Utica, pedan and possibly tyrmakin will be on the team, Higgins will probably be gone, and we should have a pile of picks this year. Markstrom will play a bigger role forced by Benning because he won't want to resign Miller.

Unfortunately, this is like the perfect scenario (well, other than the Lucic deal ... ), where as, we know from experience that it will be Benning giving away "a pile of picks" to teams with the players he's interested in. Long contracts will be handed out to undeserving players and we'll likely see a further erosion of both talent and fan interest in the team.

This management group is continuing to dig a deeper hole instead of building a foundation. From my point of view the moves they're making will haunt this team for years, but there is a pretty good chance I don't know what I'm talking about. I sure hope I'm wrong, but it looks to me like both the present and future is dark for this franchise.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

^ Plus in that scenario, our defense is still a cluster****.

 

[RandV]

That is debatable. Kassian could be veering into Brad Isbister (or worse) territory. We'll see.



This is what I mean -- there is a lot of fan attachment to ZK that isn't grounded in a lot of reality. I'm not denying Kassian has the physical tools to be a solid NHL player, but the way he is tracking should be cause for concern.

This is easy to say when the guy missed the end of the year with an injury and spent the next half season in rehab.

Forget about the potential top six power forward for a minute. What we had in Kassian the last two seasons - a large physical 30 point fan favourite 3rd liner, made him a perfectly suitable Canuck for me.

Yeah you hope he can emerge as a Todd Bertuzzi, but there's nothing wrong with settling for a Sergei Momesso. Which is about what he was tracking towards with us. Or are you going to agree with Edmonton & Oiler fans that he was little more than a 4th line plug and borderline NHLer?

 

[Verviticus]

Mathieu? I thought he was a great choice to plug in at 2C in the summer of 2014.

yep. he's been ****ing fantastic for wpg

 

[coldsteel79]

Unfortunately, this is like the perfect scenario (well, other than the Lucic deal ... ), where as, we know from experience that it will be Benning giving away "a pile of picks" to teams with the players he's interested in. Long contracts will be handed out to undeserving players and we'll likely see a further erosion of both talent and fan interest in the team.

This management group is continuing to dig a deeper hole instead of building a foundation. From my point of view the moves they're making will haunt this team for years, but there is a pretty good chance I don't know what I'm talking about. I sure hope I'm wrong, but it looks to me like both the present and future is dark for this franchise.

I don't think there gonna be anymore picks for 25 yr olds, if there were we would have seen them already, and although I don't like the vey situation or the swapping of picks in the sutter trade, the pedan trade looks great and the Baer trade looks good. So 2 2nd round picks and a 3 Rd pick for a top 6 winger and possibly top 4 dman in prime years is really good imo

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

That is debatable. Kassian could be veering into Brad Isbister (or worse) territory. We'll see.



This is what I mean -- there is a lot of fan attachment to ZK that isn't grounded in a lot of reality. I'm not denying Kassian has the physical tools to be a solid NHL player, but the way he is tracking should be cause for concern.



What I mean by fiasco is how people are acting like we made a deal along the lines of the Neely trade. I really think people are overvaluing Kassian and his general worth and are instead focusing heavily on his potential, while ignoring some of the very real problems that existed with him.

The reason why I brought up the Richardson comparison is because he was a recent roster player who was a valuable contributor...and the Canucks are missing a player like him on the team this year. I view passing on Richardson to be a dumb mistake from Dim Jim, a mistake that has been compounded because he failed to address the team's lack of depth at the C position this season.

The reason I brought up SOB is because he was a guy folks on here liked to joke about because he liked to party, and aren't sad that he's gone. Didn't Burrows pretend to snort blow or something once to piss him off?

Yet everyone is quick to write a guy like him off, but are wringing their hands over Kassian. Not because they're worried about his well being, but because it is either a way for them to blast Benning over a perceived wrong or because they like Kassian and think he makes the team better. It's stupid.

Does Kass even snort blow?

Or is this unfounded speculation?