News Article: Forbes' Hockey Analysis: It's not for us. To be revisited.

[Jacob]

Obviously Kadar took issue with the warm cookies.

 

[gordie]

Lol niskanen is the most overrated guy to come through the team in a while.

I hear the names of Simon Despres and David Perron whistling in the breezes.

 

[BobCole]

If the Pens were healthy last year they go to the finals at least.


If they stay relatively healthy this year they are cup favorites. Health is the biggest thing for this team. End of story.

I'm optimistic about the upcoming season, but wouldn't consider us anywhere close to "Cup favorites."

- The top 6 is obviously great on paper.

- The bottom 6 is a question mark: can Kunitz bounce back or will he slip further, can Dupuis literally survive a game, and who's going to fill out the 4th line?

- The D is an even bigger question mark. Maatta's never been asked to be a top pairing guy, let alone coming off of two surgeries, cancer, and a year away from the game. Letang is trying to return from yet *another* devastating concussion. The next two pairings, however they're comprised, will both look like 3rd pairs.

- MAF will always give them a chance to win.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

I'm tired of this lazy-person's thinking. Are we top heavy? Sure but that's not the problem. Our problems have been a) Signing the wrong guys around the core and b) Not developing players who can be in the regular lineup and not take up much space.

Going forward, the cost of Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and Letang will be a lower % of the cap and lower than other team's cores as top players sign for Kane & Toews contracts.

Agree with you on all points. First off we have never had a winger like Kessel on this team since the team made the Cup finals with Hossa.

Wingers used to be this teams weakness even in the past two Cup finals years against Detroit. Kunitz, Guerin, Fedotenko, and Talbot as the teams top wingers for the Crosby and Malkin lines when we won the Cup. Cooke and Kennedy as the 3rd line wingers for that team. I think this team has much better wingers than that team.

The defenseman are young but have a ton of talent and if needed the Pens can add a defenseman at the deadline like they did when they won the Cup. It is time to play the young guys and that is something this team has not done a good job of in the past. Dumoulin has nothing left to prove in the AHL after 3 years in WBS. Pouliot is an elite talent that has 34 NHL games and needs to play. The other 4 of the top 7 have all proven to be NHL defenseman. Time will tell if someone like Erixon or Anderson can help.

The team is strong at Center and Goal.

I think this team does have the cast that can contend for the Cup. Injuries and player development will be the deciding factors. If the team is healthy going into the playoffs and guys like Pouliot and Dumoulin prove ready the Pens will be a tough out for any team. If an injury happens or a young player proves not ready that is why we have the trade deadline for.

I don't care about picks at this point. Trade what you need to build this team to win now because the team's window is the next 5-7 years while Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, and Fleury are still playing at a high level. If we need to have 4 years of bottom feeder seasons to stock back up like we did in the mid 80's and early 2000's then that is fine by me.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

I'm optimistic about the upcoming season, but wouldn't consider us anywhere close to "Cup favorites."

- The top 6 is obviously great on paper.

- The bottom 6 is a question mark: can Kunitz bounce back or will he slip further, can Dupuis literally survive a game, and who's going to fill out the 4th line?

- The D is an even bigger question mark. Maatta's never been asked to be a top pairing guy, let alone coming off of two surgeries, cancer, and a year away from the game. Letang is trying to return from yet *another* devastating concussion. The next two pairings, however they're comprised, will both look like 3rd pairs.

- MAF will always give them a chance to win.

I have no doubt that Kunitz and Dupuis can play the 3rd line and be above average for that line. The 4th line needs to be filled by young guys for once like Sundqvist, Wilson, Rust, Farnham, and Bennett are 5 guys not projected in our top 9 that should be able to make a good 4th line. The days of Adams, Glass, and that sort need to end. I see great forward depth with the 14 forwards we have fighting for spots.

The 9 defenseman have some question marks but also more talent than a while with guys like Letang, Maatta, Pouliot, Cole, and Dumoulin all with legit skills to be very good NHL defenseman. Having Lovejoy and Scuderi for the 6th and 7th spots is a nice luxury to have if you can afford it. Erixon and Anderson will be interesting to see if they have something to offer.

So your questions are legit but also could be a strength if the young players develop and perform to the talent they have. The 4th line and defense might be a strength by the end of the year and if not then trade for a rental or two near the deadline.

 

[chethejet]

I would feel much better if Scuderi was gone and Kunitz contracts as well. Dupuis is a question mark as to health and ability to compete. Pens will have some growing pains on D, but the skill set is very high. No question the Pens need some speed on the wings and the third line can be good with Dupuis, Sutter and Bennett. I like that line with scoring and decent speed. The fourth line of Oscar, Wilson, Rust and a FA pickup at least is palatable .

 

[eXile59]

Lol niskanen is the most overrated guy to come through the team in a while.

He's a number 4-5. Something Lovejoy and Scuderi aren't. Something that Cole and DP have yet to prove to be.

But yes overrated and over paid.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He's a number 4-5. Something Lovejoy and Scuderi aren't. Something that Cole and DP have yet to prove to be.

But yes overrated and over paid.

Cole looked plenty capable of being a number 4-5 in the playoffs. Sure he hasn't proven it over time, but he gave us plenty of reason to believe he can do it. Its not just blind hope. Same with DP. We have reason to believe he can be an effective NHL player. Dumoulin too. Its evidence based faith. Its what we need to do.

I'd rather have the guys we have vs Niskanen at his cost and term. And yes, that includes Lovejoy for 1 year.


Not Scuds though. **** Scuds.

 

[Penguinator]

I wouldn't mind Scuds at half price (or less), it's just that he ****s the **** outta our cap. Ogre, you should probably aim your frustration at Shero, he's the one who let him go when he was still good & he's the dumb ass who brought him back too late & overpriced.

 

[Whambino]

Pouliot, Lovejoy and Cole are not outplaying Martin, Ehrhoff, Niskanen anwhere on the ice any time soon. It's fine if you think those guys didn't cut it, but making the D objectively worse doesn't fix the problem.

Sorry dude but I have to disagree with you completely on that. The current group, as a whole, are better skaters (with the exception of Niskanen), make better first passes, and are more sound in the defensive zone (Pouliot is still weak there. Martin had my vote for that until this last season. He just looked lost in his own zone most of the time IMO). The only edge the old group has is Erhoff's play in the offensive zone. Well that and "experience". Don't get into the "experience is best" mindset. That's why this team is currently overpaying Kunitz, Dupuis and Scuderi. The group is also much more suited to the Pens game. I still loath the Despres-Lovejoy trade, but I gotta say Lovejoy is a very smart defenseman and one that I would trust with the game on the line. Pouliot is still rough around the edges, but he has potentiel to be elite on the breakout. Cole, while not exceptional at anything in particular, is someone I trust in most situations and should be fine in a top 4 role. The current group is much more suited to our Core and I believe has finally given us some sort of identity on defense.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I wouldn't mind Scuds at half price (or less), it's just that he ****s the **** outta our cap. Ogre, you should probably aim your frustration at Shero, he's the one who let him go when he was still good & he's the dumb ass who brought him back too late & overpriced.

at half the price, he's still not an NHL caliber player. He is a bad hockey player.

Shero letting him walk was a good move by Shero. He was a good player, but letting guys like him go is something we needed to do more of, not something we needed to regret. We should have done similar with Dupuis and Adams a while ago.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I wouldn't mind Scuds at half price (or less), it's just that he ****s the **** outta our cap. Ogre, you should probably aim your frustration at Shero, he's the one who let him go when he was still good & he's the dumb ass who brought him back too late & overpriced.

At half price he's Sydor sitting in the press box, and even at full price.

Sydor at 2.5 back in 2008/09 was just as much hindrance as Scuderi at 3.375 today.

 

[Ogrezilla]

At half price he's Sydor sitting in the press box, and even at full price.

Sydor at 2.5 back in 2008/09 was just as much hindrance as Scuderi at 3.375 today.

Sydor was a better player than current Scuderi is, we were willing to sit him in the press box, and we didn't have nearly the quality of players being blocked by him as we've had behind Scuderi.

Sydor was never nearly the problem Scuds is right now. I don't remember Sydor ever being a problem at all.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Hockey journalists before the Pens acquired Kessel:
"Pens won't win the Cup until they bring in better wingers to help Crosby and Malkin."

Hockey journalists after the Pens acquired Kessel:
"Pens won't win the Cup because they're too top heavy and didn't need to bring in an elite winger."

And these are the people who vote on major awards. Yikes.

Funny how that works, isn't it?

 

[Penguinator]

Mods, feel free to soft delete this as the censor beeps aren't quite on Q but it's quite late, the children are sleeping & well... It's gold.

 

[cygnus47]

Sorry dude but I have to disagree with you completely on that. The current group, as a whole, are better skaters (with the exception of Niskanen), make better first passes, and are more sound in the defensive zone (Pouliot is still weak there. Martin had my vote for that until this last season. He just looked lost in his own zone most of the time IMO). The only edge the old group has is Erhoff's play in the offensive zone. Well that and "experience". Don't get into the "experience is best" mindset. That's why this team is currently overpaying Kunitz, Dupuis and Scuderi. The group is also much more suited to the Pens game. I still loath the Despres-Lovejoy trade, but I gotta say Lovejoy is a very smart defenseman and one that I would trust with the game on the line. Pouliot is still rough around the edges, but he has potentiel to be elite on the breakout. Cole, while not exceptional at anything in particular, is someone I trust in most situations and should be fine in a top 4 role. The current group is much more suited to our Core and I believe has finally given us some sort of identity on defense.

Ehrhoff had an unlucky season but was a well established top 4 player. Martin is a top pairing D and has been for years and Niskanen was a good #4 in his last season here. Cole, Pouliot haven't proven themselves more than bottom pairing D yet and as good as Maatta is, he hasn't even played a full season yet.

We looked ok defensively in the playoffs because we played a low skill, defensive game. The reason we couldn't score is because our D couldn't be trusted to do more than that. Replacing Martin with Maatta MAY be an improvement offensively but were basically going into next season with our playoffs D corps who couldn't get anything going at all. Think about the difference between the start of the year when our D were healthy and the playoffs in terms of offensive opportunities generated.

We have the best forwards we've had since I started following the Pens and that will work fine during the regular season, but we're critically undermanned at D and even if we have perfect health (which is never going to happen), we don't have the guys at D to get it done in the playoffs.

I'm fine with that because it's the right process, but if you think we're getting anything done with the D we have this season you're very optimistic. Next season maybe, but Pouliot, Dumoulin and Cole will have to come a VERY long way.

 

[JTG]

Mods, feel free to soft delete this as the censor beeps aren't quite on Q but it's quite late, the children are sleeping & well... It's gold.

That video was hilarious

 

[Jacob]

Sydor was almost as maligned as Scuderi is now.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sydor was almost as maligned as Scuderi is now.

Not that it has anything to do with this topic but another FA thread wasn't started. So I just wanted to say that you're right about Scuderi only having a limited NMC. Though nobody seems to know the details and from little has been written about it... makes it sound more like a limited NTC. Which is a bit confusing.

I doubt that they try sending him down, regardless. That might hurt his feelings.

 

[Ogrezilla]

he can have a limited NTC and a NMC for waivers.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

he can have a limited NTC and a NMC for waivers.

Right. But I've read in a few places that he has a "limited NMC" and then goes on to detail the amount of teams that he can/can't be traded to, or whatever. Which makes it sound much more like a limited NTC.

My understanding was always that they are two entirely different things. One determining if/where the player can be traded. The other determining whether or not they can be put on waivers and sent to the minors. But there are probably finer details I'm missing.

 

[Sam Spade]

Niskanen isn't worlds better than Cole. And we just played a season without Maatta. Sub him in for Martin.

There's question marks, but they're necessary for this team to be built properly moving forward.

Yes he is.

Lol niskanen is the most overrated guy to come through the team in a while.

I think he is actually criminally under rated here.

He is a steady, not prone to mistakes, with just enough meanness, play every game dman, who the Pens could use, considering they are not the healthiest team in the league.

A top four of Letang/Maata, Niskanen/Despres would be a top ten, maybe higher, defense in the league.

 

[Ogrezilla]

but without getting rid of all of our cap dumps, we couldn't afford it.

 

[The Old Master]

Mods, feel free to soft delete this as the censor beeps aren't quite on Q but it's quite late, the children are sleeping & well... It's gold.

we need to introduce this guy to ice cappy.

 

[Darth Vitale]

we need to introduce this guy to ice cappy.

The Van Riemsdyk shot was awesome. Angry Leaf fans + YouTube = laughs a plenty.

We should get this guy together with the guy in the other video Johnny Dangle or whatever he's called.

Will take those two over Toronto's hack sports reporting contingent any day.