Footballing Hot Takes

[Cassano]

Another one, I always considered Gerrard to be on another level over Lampard.

Scholes was better than both by a fair margin IMO.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I think it's fair to say Mbappe will win a Bd'O at some point. But how great he can be is hard to tell just yet. Will he be another Messi/Ronaldo, or just another Owen...

(BTW Owen had played 2 EPL games at age 18).

A Ronaldo? Maybe.

A Messi? Not a chance. We might not be here when the next one comes around.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Zenit, CSKA, Spartak, Lokomotiv and Krasnodar are all solid. In Germany there's Bayern and maybe Leipzig.

I can't imagine what could possibly be the basis for this other than an inability to remember events older than 8 weeks. Germany's struggles are bad this year, but Bayern, BVB, and even Leipzig are better than any of those teams in quality.

 

[cgf]

Some years ago they might have even been consensus top-4, but right now England, Spain, Italy and France are far ahead. Currently I would add Russia thanks to its greater depth despite lacking a Bayern, and even Portugal is pretty close. Germany has become a better version of Scotland with one dominant team and lots of complete garbage. It is telling that the German press actually celebrated Hoffenheim for being able to tie against Ludogorets Razgrad at home.

You don't watch the RPL if you think that. I know I'm being arrogant saying it like that, but that take is beyond hot; it's Trumpian.

And you're going to shit on the BuLi's depth while propping up the Portuguese league? lol Benfica did worse than any german team in the CL. Sporting got the same 7 points that Leipzig did in their first ever european campaign. And Porto just barely beat out RB for the 2nd spot in that group. The Bundesliga almost matched the entire Portuguese league with just Leipzig if only RB had been slightly less naive in their match with Porto...and that with Keita giving absolutely zero f***s

Zenit, CSKA, Spartak, Lokomotiv and Krasnodar are all solid. In Germany there's Bayern and maybe Leipzig.

It's gunna be fun watching you argue for those teams ahead of Dortmund, Leipzig, Gladbach, Schalke, Leverkusen & Hoffenheim. The great insight you gained from scanning over their CL & EL results will be breathtaking.

FYI the RPL is the league I've followed most after the Bundesliga or BuLi2...Favre's Nice pushed Ligue 1 into a tie last season, but that's one season in the past 15 that the RPL wasn't the non-German league that I followed most closely. I've written essays about the subject of russian youth development and the issues that the combination of high wages for domestic talent, the foreign player rules, and the pay to play nature of the lowest levels of russian youth football have created.

 

[sabremike]

Another one, I always considered Gerrard to be on another level over Lampard.

Scholes was better than both by a fair margin IMO.

The greatest moment I've ever had as a fan was at the 0-7 "Red Bull Wedding" at Yankee Stadium in 2016. Ciddy was down like 5-0 and the PA announcer excitedly announces "Now entering the game Suuuuuuuuuper Frank Lampard!!!" to a cascade of boos from the few people who hadn't already left.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

After watching a few games.. the most underrated league is brasileirao better than ligue 1.

 

[Albatros]

I can't imagine what could possibly be the basis for this other than an inability to remember events older than 8 weeks. Germany's struggles are bad this year, but Bayern, BVB, and even Leipzig are better than any of those teams in quality.

Is that more than a mantra though, when the reality is that Dortmund failed to overcome even a Cypriot team (twice, no less)? At the time they were leading the Bundesliga. Failure has been so systematic that quality in itself has to be one of the problems.

It's understandable that Cologne is weak in Europe when they're horrendous in Germany, but Hoffenheim for one is again playing a solid season domestically and yet they too finished dead last in a group with the giants Braga, Razgrad, and Başakşehir.

 

[sabremike]

Judging teams from the big 5 leagues based on Europa League isn't the best idea because for almost all of them the focus is on their domestic league.

 

[cgf]

Is that more than a mantra though, when the reality is that Dortmund failed to overcome even a Cypriot team (twice, no less)? At the time they were leading the Bundesliga. Failure has been so systematic that quality in itself has to be one of the problems.

It's understandable that Cologne is weak in Europe when they're horrendous in Germany, but Hoffenheim for one is again playing a solid season domestically and yet they too finished dead last in a group with the giants Braga, Razgrad, and Başakşehir.

Hoffenheim & Leipzig have never played in europe before. In their first european adventure under Klopp Dortmund got 4 points in a group with Arsenal (at the height of their stadium related penny pinching), Marseille & Olympiakos. Coming in last in that group some 18 months before playing in the CL final with much the same roster...Reus in place of Shinji being the only significant change and at the time was a change that many people who didn't watch BMG were skeptical about. You can't just keep ignoring this factor. Hoffenheim was naive and prioritized the league over the EL once they lost to Liverpool; but that doesn't negate their good league play, the talent on that roster, or the great football Nagelsmann has them playing. It just highlights their european inexperience and limited depth.

BVB failed miserably because their coach started losing the room and has now been fired. That tells us more about Bosz than the actual ability of that roster...especially since Bosz never trusted their best midfielder (dahoud); never implemented the back 3 that their roster is begging for; and generally never got his tactics right or the best 11 onto the pitch. Yes they failed to even beat a cypriot team; that's why Bosz is gone. That doesn't erase what they've done between that 2011-2012 season where they only got 4 points and their current campaign. Nor does it erase that they are likely to be back in the knockouts next year...assuming they can get an adequate coach & Watzke doesn't implode the team even further...or their league play.

 

[Albatros]

At the same time we have teams like Östersund who had no problem overcoming Hertha and qualifying for the knockout phase despite it being their first ever European appearance after their first ever season in the Swedish first league. Another team in that group, Zorya Luhansk, has to play all of their games away from home due to the war in Donbas and still they finished ahead of Hertha. If we were to assume that German clubs still somehow have more quality than the likes of Östersund and Luhansk, it is difficult to escape the thought that excuses have at some point become their modus operandi.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Is that more than a mantra though, when the reality is that Dortmund failed to overcome even a Cypriot team (twice, no less)? At the time they were leading the Bundesliga. Failure has been so systematic that quality in itself has to be one of the problems.

It's understandable that Cologne is weak in Europe when they're horrendous in Germany, but Hoffenheim for one is again playing a solid season domestically and yet they too finished dead last in a group with the giants Braga, Razgrad, and Başakşehir.

Dortmund had already started to skid. Extremely disingenuous to argue "they were leading the Bundesliga but still drew twice to a Cyprian team ergo the Bundesliga sucks" when they haven't won a match in 8 tries in the Bundesliga either, and lost to such prominent teams as Stuttgart and Bremen along the way.

It's not a mantra, it's just having a perspective longer than two months and not skewing the evidence to suit my own "the sky is falling" emotions like many German fans seem to be doing.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I remember when Dortmund were dead last in the Bundesliga and still made it out of their CL group in first place over Arsenal a few years back. I guess that was proof that all 17 teams ahead of them in the Bundesliga table then were also better than Arsenal and all the teams below them in the EPL table that year!!!

Or when Leverkusen made it out of their CL group last year despite being on the brink of a relegation battle in Germany.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The German Bundesliga is not a top-5 league in Europe.

England, Spain, Italy, France.

What other leagues? I don't agree with those four, but I could understand the argument. What other league am I missing?

 

[Savant]

The greatest moment I've ever had as a fan was at the 0-7 "Red Bull Wedding" at Yankee Stadium in 2016. Ciddy was down like 5-0 and the PA announcer excitedly announces "Now entering the game Suuuuuuuuuper Frank Lampard!!!" to a cascade of boos from the few people who hadn't already left.

I was there too! Hilarious

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Jozy Altidore was an All-Star, MLS Cup MVP and a complete disaster at two bottom of the table EPL clubs.

Take a look at the MLS All-Star team and it is a who's who of guys who failed at low level European clubs and those are the best players in the league nevermind the run of the mill guys that make up most of the MLS teams and couldn't even get a sniff at those bottom of the league teams.

Thats a bad example.

Why not bring up Bradley? Bradley played a role for a few years at Roma, starter at times. He was also really good at some other clubs like Chievo, Gladbach, not to mention Heerenveen where he was excellent.

Altidore was a historically bad flop. It wasn't so much that he couldn't keep up at Sunderland, he had a brutal few years. Put him in another one of those caliber sides now, and he'd probably do better, although not well. There are American players who play in those leagues and have in the past who he's better than or as good. He was a high profile flop though.

MLS's best clubs would struggle to stay up in the top European leagues, they'd probably get relegated, but they'd be among the better teams in the second division. MLS is about even with most of these second divisions. MLS has some players that would be way too good for those leagues, but the depth is about on par with those teams, and those teams would be better tactically.

 

[Savant]

Another one, I always considered Gerrard to be on another level over Lampard.

Scholes was better than both by a fair margin IMO.

Not trying to dump on Scholes here but no way.

If you swap Scholes with Gerrard or Lampard, Man U stays the same or is better. Liverpool gets worse and so does Chelsea.

Scholes is a top 10 PL midfielder all time but he benefited from being on those great teams.

 

[Baxterman]

Thats a bad example.

Why not bring up Bradley? Bradley played a role for a few years at Roma, starter at times. He was also really good at some other clubs like Chievo, Gladbach, not to mention Heerenveen where he was excellent.

Altidore was a historically bad flop. It wasn't so much that he couldn't keep up at Sunderland, he had a brutal few years. Put him in another one of those caliber sides now, and he'd probably do better, although not well. There are American players who play in those leagues and have in the past who he's better than or as good. He was a high profile flop though.

MLS's best clubs would struggle to stay up in the top European leagues, they'd probably get relegated, but they'd be among the better teams in the second division. MLS is about even with most of these second divisions. MLS has some players that would be way too good for those leagues, but the depth is about on par with those teams, and those teams would be better tactically.

Michael Bradley last played in Europe 3 years ago and wasn't a key contributor for a few years longer than that.

Again if the best example is that there is a guy who 5 years ago was a sometimes starter for a good, not top level, club then it shows how weak the league is overall.

 

[sabremike]

Does the all time leading scorer for Fulham who accomplished that feat when they were a Premier League club count?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Michael Bradley last played in Europe 3 years ago and wasn't a key contributor for a few years longer than that.

Again if the best example is that there is a guy who 5 years ago was a sometimes starter for a good, not top level, club then it shows how weak the league is overall.

You were the one who insisted on bringing up Toronto FC.

You'd need to quantify weak. Weak can mean a number of things. Its not a good league compared to the top leagues in the world, but if we are comparing it to the second division in those countries, its about even with those leagues.

 

[Cassano]

Not trying to dump on Scholes here but no way.

If you swap Scholes with Gerrard or Lampard, Man U stays the same or is better. Liverpool gets worse and so does Chelsea.

Scholes is a top 10 PL midfielder all time but he benefited from being on those great teams.

Scholes was the one who pulled the strings on those Utd teams. He didn't have the sexy stats, but the game will always run through him.

I guess in terms of a 'face of a team', he did lack the charisma that Gerrard/Lampard had, which is why England never preferred him (Even though England were pretty damn good, better than the Lampard/Gerrard era when he played). So I could see the argument for how Liverpool would be worse off with him (even though I don't agree).

Great players, but guys like Pirlo, Xavi, Iniesta, Scholes were in a class above because they dictated the game so well.

 

[Baxterman]

You were the one who insisted on bringing up Toronto FC.

You'd need to quantify weak. Weak can mean a number of things. Its not a good league compared to the top leagues in the world, but if we are comparing it to the second division in those countries, its about even with those leagues.

I already said the MLS teams would finish mid-bottom of the Championship so that is what I mean by weak.

I used TFC because all I have heard on Canadian sports talk this week is how they are the greatest MLS team ever so if their guys aren't tool level quality hard to see how the average team would be.

 

[sabremike]

Not trying to dump on Scholes here but no way.

If you swap Scholes with Gerrard or Lampard, Man U stays the same or is better. Liverpool gets worse and so does Chelsea.

Scholes is a top 10 PL midfielder all time but he benefited from being on those great teams.

As a United fan I would argue he was a significant reason those sides were so great. If you think about it him and Giggs were the two constants throughout that legendary run (Giggs more so because he was literally there for the whole thing whereas Scholes arrived in the mid 90's).

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I already said the MLS teams would finish mid-bottom of the Championship so that is what I mean by weak.

I used TFC because all I have heard on Canadian sports talk this week is how they are the greatest MLS team ever so if their guys aren't tool level quality hard to see how the average team would be.

Toronto was also one of the deeper teams in MLS history. Their four best players, adding Vazquez into the equation, are among the best group of 4 players MLS has had in recent seasons, but its not unmatched. Giovinco and Bradley are among the best in the league at their position, Altidore and Vazquez top 10, its not like those were the four best players in the whole league. What I thought made the main difference towards being one of MLS's best ever teams was their depth. They tied Columbus in Columbus in the Conference Final without Altidore and Giovinco. They had a really deep squad, one of MLS's deeper squads I can remember. They had numerous guys on their bench that would be starters elsewhere around MLS.

 

[sabremike]

They also lost a game at home. Thanks Michael Murillo for your moment of abject brain dead stupidity that gifted me another year of painful miserable failure!

 

[YNWA14]

Joseph Gomez will be a top 5 defender in the world.