Confirmed with Link: Flyers Sign Tyrell Goulbourne to 3-year ELC

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

To be fair, he also has more talent than Rinaldo. Ryan White would be my comparison.

but can Ghoul throw a big hit that can win a game by himself like the great Zac Rinaldo did

 

[CSKA1974]

This guy has already generated 7 pages of comments. Can't wait to see this thread when/ if he makes the main squad.

 

[Tripod]

I think we all hope he ends up making it. Most just think that we should aim higher with our picks than 4th liners. Especially 3rd rounders.

I do wonder with this though:

XXXX Giroux Voracek
XXXX Couts Schenn
XXXX Laughton Simmonds
XXXX XXXX XXXX

If we say that is our core, that leaves 6 spots to be filled with:
Read
Raffl
Leier
Konecny
Fazleev
NAK
Lindblom
Cousins
Marody
Goule
plus whoever we add this year And others like Martel, etc...

Of course it is a ways away, but we could soon be in a situation like Detroit where prospects don't come up as quickly as we expect due to depth. And that isn't a bad thing but something to note anyways.

 

[Rebels57]

I think we all hope he ends up making it. Most just think that we should aim higher with our picks than 4th liners. Especially 3rd rounders.

I do wonder with this though:

XXXX Giroux Voracek
XXXX Couts Schenn
XXXX Laughton Simmonds
XXXX XXXX XXXX

If we say that is our core, that leaves 6 spots to be filled with:
Read
Raffl
Leier
Konecny
Fazleev
NAK
Lindblom
Cousins
Marody
Goule
plus whoever we add this year And others like Martel, etc...

Of course it is a ways away, but we could soon be in a situation like Detroit where prospects don't come up as quickly as we expect due to depth. And that isn't a bad thing but something to note anyways.

That's exactly the type of problem I yearn for.

 

[Tripod]

That's exactly the type of problem I yearn for.

Yup.

I want us to get to a spot where our forwards don't just come in and play. I want them to make an impact.

Take Laughton. Played 31 games and got 6 points. And while he played well for stretches, he also was just "there" for lots others.

But if we have 3-5 guys like Laughton in the AHL from ages 21-24 then all the sudden the internal competition amongst them increases as they know there are lots of options for callups. And of course the best part, they know that if they do not, they will be headed back down and someone else will get the chance.

Look at Thomas Jurco right now with Detroit. Can't get into the lineup due to Larkin and a logjam of players. Nice situation to have.

Someday...

 

[tymed]

For a team that only scores on the powerplay, Rinaldo had his moments where'd he'd shine. When he was drawing more penalties than he was taking while not getting scored on when he was on the ice. He was terrible but he had games or stretches where he had a positive impact on the team in this manner, he just wasn't rounded out enough mentally or skillfully at all. If Ghoul can replicate that type of role with an heightened discipline, defensive reliability and ability to chip in on the offense, then he will have an impact on this team that relies entirely on the powerplay to have any sort of chance at getting points. He doesn't need to learn to penalty kill, that's always been a strength of his. He brings intangibles like leadership and heart to the bottom of the lineup as well. He is a fan and dressing room favorite because he HAS proven to have a consistently positive effect at every level he's established himself in to date. It makes players comfortable to have a guy like him in the dressing room and on the bench. If you disagree with this, you've probably never played the sport to any competitive level, if at all. He has no problem with earning his keep and has shown confidence in doing so. Time will tell but if he becomes an impactful bottom 6er, then he's earned a pretty decent keep at 72nd.

 

[Alchemy]

All I have to say is time will tell. We'll see right or wrong.

 

[Alchemy]

For a team that only scores on the powerplay, Rinaldo had his moments where'd he'd shine. When he was drawing more penalties than he was taking while not getting scored on when he was on the ice. He was terrible but he had games or stretches where he had a positive impact on the team in this manner, he just wasn't rounded out enough mentally or skillfully at all. If Ghoul can replicate that type of role with an heightened discipline, defensive reliability and ability to chip in on the offense, then he will have an impact on this team that relies entirely on the powerplay to have any sort of chance at getting points. He doesn't need to learn to penalty kill, that's always been a strength of his. He brings intangibles like leadership and heart to the bottom of the lineup as well. He is a fan and dressing room favorite because he HAS proven to have a consistently positive effect at every level he's established himself in to date. It makes players comfortable to have a guy like him in the dressing room and on the bench. If you disagree with this, you've probably never played the sport to any competitive level, if at all. He has no problem with earning his keep and has shown confidence in doing so. Time will tell but if he becomes an impactful bottom 6er, then he's earned a pretty decent keep at 72nd.

Well said. I hate the disrespect that so called "hardcore" fans have for role players. People think it's an easily replaceable commoditiy you can go get from Walmart. You can't replace the intangibles certain role players bring.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You don't draft role players in the 3rd round. You don't draft specifically for the 4th line.

 

[Alchemy]

You don't draft role players in the 3rd round. You don't draft specifically for the 4th line.

Some players that are role players in the NHL are drafted in that range. So this is silly to say. Teams might be thinking if everything goes great we might have a future core player to build around but a players might not reach that ceiling and become a great role players. This i completely disagree with this. Drafting isn't that black and white.

 

[Tripod]

Well said. I hate the disrespect that so called "hardcore" fans have for role players. People think it's an easily replaceable commoditiy you can go get from Walmart. You can't replace the intangibles certain role players bring.

That's why you see 4th liners signed to 7-8 year deals all the time right?

Hardcore fans will love everything Goule brings if he makes it. We just don't think you should spend 3rd rd picks on 4th line UPSIDE. Because if they DON'T max out, they are useless.

 

[tymed]

Upside is pretty objective. If Raffl is on the first line, which many people around here hilariously believe he is cut for, Ghoul certainly has 3rd line upside. Maybe everyone forgets what Lappy brought to this team.

 

[BleedOrange]

:

 

[Alchemy]

That's why you see 4th liners signed to 7-8 year deals all the time right?

Hardcore fans will love everything Goule brings if he makes it. We just don't think you should spend 3rd rd picks on 4th line UPSIDE. Because if they DON'T max out, they are useless.

No you don't see them getting signed those deals but they are players that can complement the skill in the roster.

We all know that the big time players get paid the big time bucks. You don't have to tell me that.The 3rd and 4th liners players are an important part of the team. A reason its a team sport. Just like in the NFL your depth players better be good because most likely they are the role players on special teams. I'm not saying Goul is the best depth player of all time but i like the element he will bring along with the skilled players on the roster. That's all. I'm done with this back and fourth. We are really just replying with the same things over and over. I agree to disagree.

 

[Tripod]

Upside is pretty objective. If Raffl is on the first line, which many people around here hilariously believe he is cut for, Ghoul certainly has 3rd line upside. Maybe everyone forgets what Lappy brought to this team.

^^^^^^^EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS

Then go look how Lappy was over a PPG when drafted. And had a140 point season the following year.

St.Louis drafted someone with SKILL with a late pick instead of someone with 4th line upside.

Then Lappy transitioned into a very useful depth player who had skill and braun..even posting a 45 point season.

He is a perfect example of drafting for top 6 upside, not reading it, and having a great career as a depth player. THAT is what I want.

Sorry your example backfired.

 

[tymed]

^^^^^^^EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS

Then go look how Lappy was over a PPG when drafted. And had a140 point season the following year.

St.Louis drafted someone with SKILL with a late pick instead of someone with 4th line upside.

Then Lappy transitioned into a very useful depth player who had skill and braun..even posting a 45 point season.

He is a perfect example of drafting for top 6 upside, not reading it, and having a great career as a depth player. THAT is what I want.

Sorry your example backfired.

Buddy, nice picking but he put up more than 30 points once in his entire NHL career yet was so highly regarded. He was a 20-25 pt player almost his entire career. He put up great numbers in the CHL as a teenager but in the NHL he was a role player. my example was to show that despite putting up next to nothing for offence in the NHL, he was still so highly regarded and valued everywhere he played. Ghoul brings a lot of the same qualities and intangibles. Consider the fact that from the drafts including 2007-2011, 5 years, has produced 19 players chosen in the 3rd round to even hit 100 games so far. You don't have to swing for the fences in the 3rd round, seems like most who do, strike out. Have another beer.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Some players that are role players in the NHL are drafted in that range. So this is silly to say. Teams might be thinking if everything goes great we might have a future core player to build around but a players might not reach that ceiling and become a great role players. This i completely disagree with this. Drafting isn't that black and white.

Players drafted there become role players, yes. But specifically drafting bottom 6 role players at that point is simply stupid. Draft for the top 6 when that potential is still there. If they don't pan out, maybe they become a bottom 6 talent still.

If you draft for the bottom 6 and they don't hit their ceiling, you get nothing in the end. Draft for the top 6 and they don't hit their ceiling, and they can still end up as a role player instead of an assured minor leaguer.

 

[tymed]

the vast majority or 3rd rounders that get drafted for top 6 roles end up as minor leaguers anyways. Im not saying not to take chances, but if you feel like you have a sure fire bottom-6 impact player, maybe you should go for it. Especially if you don't have a pick until mid 5th, maybe you want something you feel is a guaranteed piece of depth.

 

[Tripod]

Players drafted there become role players, yes. But specifically drafting bottom 6 role players at that point is simply stupid. Draft for the top 6 when that potential is still there. If they don't pan out, maybe they become a bottom 6 talent still.

If you draft for the bottom 6 and they don't hit their ceiling, you get nothing in the end. Draft for the top 6 and they don't hit their ceiling, and they can still end up as a role player instead of an assured minor leaguer.

Some people really have a hard time understanding this.

 

[Beef Invictus]

the vast majority or 3rd rounders that get drafted for top 6 roles end up as minor leaguers anyways

Sure. But it's inexcusable to pass on the potential for a top 6 guy when that potential is still on the board so you can draft a guy whose expected ceiling is on the 4th line. It's simply bad drafting. It is unwise to pass on higher potential to go with lower potential at that point.

 

[tymed]

Some people really have a hard time understanding this.

And others have a hard time understanding numbers.

 

[tymed]

Sure. But it's inexcusable to pass on the potential for a top 6 guy when that potential is still on the board so you can draft a guy whose expected ceiling is on the 4th line. It's simply bad drafting.

If he comes in and even puts up over a season worth of games, looking at the number of hit and misses, it's actually good drafting.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If he comes in and even puts up over a season worth of games, looking at the number of hit and misses, it's actually good drafting.

Yeah, it remains to even be seen if the guy with a team worst +/- for someone with over 10GP while scoring below .5 ppg will even see the NHL roster, especially with other prospects well ahead of him and even more expected to come into the system this summer.

 

[tymed]

Yeah, it remains to even be seen if the guy with a team worst +/- for someone with over 10GP while scoring below .5 ppg will even see the NHL roster, especially with other prospects well ahead of him and even more expected to come into the system this summer.

You're right. I also know we're beating a dead or unborn horse. It's up to time from here but the kid has pushed through everything thrown his way and some believe in him, some don't. There's just too many people calling it a wasted pick with as little evidence.

 

[Tripod]

You're right. I also know we're beating a dead or unborn horse. It's up to time from here but the kid has pushed through everything thrown his way and some believe in him, some don't. There's just too many people calling it a wasted pick with as little evidence.

This isn't hard to understand.

It's a waste to draft 4th line upside in the 3rd rd when thread is 1st line talent still available.

Would you be fine picking a goalie whose upside is a backup over a guys who upside is a starter? Of course not. Yet you are fine with it for Goule at F.

Look at Leier. He has middle 6 upside if he maxes out his potential, but could still be an excellent 4th liner if he doesn't get there. What do we get if Goule doesn't max out his potential?