I agree that it's unlikely Perry signs here either way but you made it sound like the idea of buying out Briere to sign perry wouldnt work because we could lost Briere and not even get Perry, which just isnt true.
Also, why would you have to replace Briere with a smaller amount of money? Wouldnt Perry be replacing Briere?
I don't understand the urgency to get this deal done so early. If they aren't in playoff contention that's an extremely valuable trade chip they have at the deadline to possibly acquire a young defenseman.
So if we don't win the cup next year we might as well have a **** defense is that what you are saying?
Funny, you argued that this team was a contender and only needed a#1 defensemen in another thread and should of sold a lot of youth to get Weber. So which is it?
So signing the best available UFA defensemen is prolonging the Flyers mediocrity? Last time I checked the Flyers aren't mediocre. 5 straight trips to the playoffs, 4 trips to the 2nd rd, 2 trips to the conference finals, 1 trip to the Stanley Cup finals.
Maybe we'd be really bad for one year while we recover from the loss of Timonen, I'm willing to acknowledge that, but that 1 year hit would be worth it. You'd get a top draft pick and you'd be set up for a decade of success. Right now, all we've done by extending Timonen is shrinking our future cup window. We have no long-term plan for an elite #1 PMD. And rather than just admitting that and maybe taking a short-term hit next season so that we might be able to get one in the draft, Holmgren decided to extend Timonen and pray that something just materializes out of thin air and that a PMD just falls in his lap.
You mean like the decade of success that followed after the Flyers drafted highly touted puck moving defenseman Joni Pitkanen 4th overall?
Yeah, pretty much. If you know Timonen is done after next season and you know you're not going to win the cup next year, there's no reason to re-sign him. In fact, if Timonen is as good as most here seem to think he is, it might even handicap the Flyers for 2014-2015. Everyone will be used to having Timonen to eat up the hard minutes and QB the power-play, and when he's gone there will undoubtedly be a drop-off while guys learn to play without him and the younger players step up to take his minutes.
I never argued that we should have sold a lot of youth to get Weber... NEVER. You might want to check on that and if you can find some proof, please send me a link.
So Schenn, Voracek and 1st is not a lot of youth?I don't necessarily know what other teams would offer for Shea Weber, but any intelligent fan can get reasonably close by looking at what similar players w/ 1 year till UFA status have gotten. It starts w/ Brayden Schenn and then maybe you have to add a Voracek and a 1st. This is actually considerably more than most star players one year from UFA get, but Weber is elite so I upped the price a little. Would I trade that for the best defenseman in the game? Absolutely without hesitation.
As far as "gutting the roster", I don't think trading Schenn and Voracek and a 1st guts the roster at all. Far from it actually.
As far as the Flyers being mediocre, they clearly are mediocre.
We are a contending team desperately in need of a #1 defenseman and we came up empty. You can say 28 other teams failed, but how many of them were really trying? And how many of them can honestly say a #1D might've put them over the top?
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1336547&page=9
So Schenn, Voracek and 1st is not a lot of youth?
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1336547&page=8
So are they mediocre or are they one player away? Would they still be one player away without Kimmo?
As far as team building, I would much rather build thru the draft but that doesnt work in this market. Flyers fans would not wait on a 3-5 year rebuild, especially at those ticket prices. Also you do not need a top pick to get a #1 defensemen, as more than 50% come after round 1. It's really just luck.
The only thing Holmgren has not accomplished is winning the Stanley Cup, but he has put the Flyers in position to do it every year. His record proves that, whether you agree or not. The record is the record. Signing Kimmo keeps that window open for next year and gives the Flyers more time to figure out a long term solution on the back end.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1336547&page=9
So Schenn, Voracek and 1st is not a lot of youth?
So are they mediocre or are they one player away? Would they still be one player away without Kimmo?
As far as team building, I would much rather build thru the draft but that doesnt work in this market. Flyers fans would not wait on a 3-5 year rebuild, especially at those ticket prices. Also you do not need a top pick to get a #1 defensemen, as more than 50% come after round 1. It's really just luck.
The only thing Holmgren has not accomplished is winning the Stanley Cup, but he has put the Flyers in position to do it every year. His record proves that, whether you agree or not. The record is the record. Signing Kimmo keeps that window open for next year and gives the Flyers more time to figure out a long term solution on the back end.
As far as Holmgren's "record", let's be real for a second: Holmgren took a team whose core was assembled mostly by Bobby Clarke and they went to the finals. They lost in the finals because they didn't have a #1 goaltender. Holmgren did NOTHING to remedy that situation. Then a year later, he blew that team up and brought in a 30 year old goalie after the fact to add to a rebuilding team. As far as putting us in position to win the cup every year, I'd totally disagree. Until 2011, we never had a goalie capable of winning the Stanley Cup and after 2011, we've been far to young a team to win the cup.
I'm sure you'll just accuse me of revisionist history and of being a master of hindsight, but I held the same views then that I do now.
I'm the biggest Bobby Clarke fan on this board and let me tell you something - the 2010 wasn't assembled by Clarke. It was assembled by the astute scouting of Paul Holmgren. Clarke's job was made incredibly easy by the work that Holmgren did.
I argued that they were one Shea Weber (#1 defenseman in the league) away from being a true contender. There's a massive chasm between ADDING Shea Weber to the current team and KEEPING 38 year old Kimmo Timonen. KEEPING a roster in tact that went out in the 2nd round does nothing but prolong the mediocrity. And there's no piece in free agency this year that makes us a legitimate contender immediately.
As far as Holmgren's "record", let's be real for a second: Holmgren took a team whose core was assembled mostly by Bobby Clarke and they went to the finals. They lost in the finals because they didn't have a #1 goaltender. Holmgren did NOTHING to remedy that situation. Then a year later, he blew that team up and brought in a 30 year old goalie after the fact to add to a rebuilding team. As far as putting us in position to win the cup every year, I'd totally disagree. Until 2011, we never had a goalie capable of winning the Stanley Cup and after 2011, we've been far to young a team to win the cup.
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As I stated, Schenn, Voracek, and a 1st would've been the absolute 100% top return that Weber would've gotten if he was on a 1 year deal. I said many times I think the actual return would've been LESS. But even if that was the price, do I think that's a lot of youth to trade? Not really. It's 2 young pieces and a future pick for a young guy who's the best defenseman in the game.
I argued that they were one Shea Weber (#1 defenseman in the league) away from being a true contender. There's a massive chasm between ADDING Shea Weber to the current team and KEEPING 38 year old Kimmo Timonen. KEEPING a roster in tact that went out in the 2nd round does nothing but prolong the mediocrity. And there's no piece in free agency this year that makes us a legitimate contender immediately.
I never argued for a 3-5 year rebuild. I said we could afford a 1-2 year rebuild. There's a big difference there.
As far as Holmgren's "record", let's be real for a second: Holmgren took a team whose core was assembled mostly by Bobby Clarke and they went to the finals. They lost in the finals because they didn't have a #1 goaltender. Holmgren did NOTHING to remedy that situation. Then a year later, he blew that team up and brought in a 30 year old goalie after the fact to add to a rebuilding team. As far as putting us in position to win the cup every year, I'd totally disagree. Until 2011, we never had a goalie capable of winning the Stanley Cup and after 2011, we've been far to young a team to win the cup.
I'm sure you'll just accuse me of revisionist history and of being a master of hindsight, but I held the same views then that I do now.
Martin Biron was also thought to be a good goaltender at the time he was acquired, who only lost his job to the emerging Ryan Miller after backing up Hall of Famer Hasek. Just cause he didnt work out you cant accuse a GM of not trying.