GDT: Flyers @ Devils, 7 PM, MSG+

[SteveCangialosi123]

I seriously don't get how people complain about Moore, but praise Severson. The kid gets all his points on the PP and can someone find out how many of those are secondary assist? I would rather see Moore on the PP.

Moore is a -5 as a D on a terrible team and Severson is at a high -29. Who is worse? Idk

Just my opinion.

Moore is waaaay worse. Not even close. That said I'd much prefer him back over Lovejoy. That guy is one of the worst in the league.

 

[NJDevs26]

I seriously don't get how people complain about Moore, but praise Severson. The kid gets all his points on the PP and can someone find out how many of those are secondary assist? I would rather see Moore on the PP.

Moore is a -5 as a D on a terrible team and Severson is at a high -29. Who is worse? Idk

Just my opinion.

It's draft pick bias to a degree plus at least Severson still has time to improve while Moore's already reached the 'he is what he is' stage of his career.

Severson's a better passer, that's why he plays the PP over Moore, they don't use defensemen as shooters on the PP.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

wow that guy...

it wasnt zacha's best game ever but he made some beautiful passes including that stretch pass to hall which was gorgeous.
im not sure how anyone who watched that full game comes away with the "zacha was lost" conclusion.

Give your own head a shake. Did you watch the game in person when the cameras were not on Zacha? Zacha is lost without the puck. He really lacks the IQ away from the play. It's not a skill thing since he's very skilled with the puck. He just doesn't know how to get it and doesn't have any idea about positioning in his own zone or the neutral zone. It's not something that can't be improved, but it's going to take a lot of work from the coaching staff to fix that aspect of the game. I don't think he's lazy away from the puck, I think he's just clueless right now. He's only 19, so there is plenty of time.

I had that understanding from watching him on TV, but it was really apparent when watching live. Everyone in the suite came away with the same conclusion. Even the folks who don't really watch the sport were asking why "#37 keeps skating around doing nothing".

Heck, he had one of the most brutal turnovers I've seen in a while in his own zone that any competent team would've capitalized on.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I will say that it's amazing what Newak has done with Broad St.

I drove in (with the NJ Transit mess going on, I wasn't going to train it) and really enjoyed that stretch of drive when you get into the revitalized area. I haven't been to the Pru Center in a couple of years (I used to get club seats a few times a year for the Ice Lounge side) and it's definitely a big improvement to the area.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Zacha away from the puck has absolutely no idea where to be, he's not wrong there. When was the last time we saw Zacha get a scoring chance set up by another player?

He's amazing with the puck, but without it, he is lost.

some games yes, some games no. Kind of indicative of how the team has no structure.

 

[devilsblood]

As for Moore, I want him gone - he's pretty bad, and while yes, if you can protect him and give him 3rd pairing minutes and whatever he can be decent; you don't want a guy like Moore jamming that spot up. Since the Devils aren't a good team, they should want to give their 3rd pairing minutes to a player who might become something. The Devils took their chance with Moore becoming something and he has not, so it's time for them to move on from him. I have a similar objection to Merrill being a 3rd pairing guy - he's capable in that role, but he's also 25 and not showing signs of becoming much more than he is. I also recognize that NHL teams need to have 8 or 9 D, so maybe you keep Merrill, stick a guy above him, and then have a player like Kapla who might end up with 30 or 40 games next season.

Keeping prime-age players who are merely competent in a limited role does not make sense on a team about to finish in the bottom 5.

Jacob MacDonald?

 

[devilsblood]

I will say that it's amazing what Newak has done with Broad St.

I drove in (with the NJ Transit mess going on, I wasn't going to train it) and really enjoyed that stretch of drive when you get into the revitalized area. I haven't been to the Pru Center in a couple of years (I used to get club seats a few times a year for the Ice Lounge side) and it's definitely a big improvement to the area.

Wait till the Devils are a good team that goes on a bit of a playoff run.

Factor in the soon to be park across the street?

I think it could really make for great environment out there.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Wait till the Devils are a good team that goes on a bit of a playoff run.

Factor in the soon to be park across the street?

I think it could really make for great environment out there.

I hope so. Newark always had a ton of potential as a major metro transit hub.

They need more corporate investment.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Moore is crap.

I just posted the stats in the other thread. He's by FAR our worst territorial defender. And it's not just defensively. We generate the least amount of shots on goal with him on the ice compared to all our other defenders.

 

[devilsblood]

It's draft pick bias to a degree plus at least Severson still has time to improve while Moore's already reached the 'he is what he is' stage of his career.

Severson's a better passer, that's why he plays the PP over Moore, they don't use defensemen as shooters on the PP.

Advance stats favor Sev's in a big way.

Sev's is also a better point producer.

John Moore has the +/- adv. This year. He didn't last year.

 

[devilsblood]

I hope so. Newark always had a ton of potential as a major metro transit hub.

They need more corporate investment.

It is moving fwd. Can't forget how bad of shape Newark once was. There is a mixed "surrounding area/season ticket" thread above in which there is pretty good(though not immediate) discussion on all the things happening up there.

 

[Zippy316]

some games yes, some games no. Kind of indicative of how the team has no structure.

It's not even structure.

In the offensive zone, you never see him get open. You never see him move himself into a prime scoring area when guys have the puck. That's not coaching that's just instinct.

Watch the difference between a kid like Blandisi when he gets into the offensive zone and Zacha. Blandisi is always in the play or in a position to help facilitate the play. He moves to where the puck is going to be or he's in a soft spot to give the player with the puck an outlet (or generate a scoring chance).

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

It's draft pick bias to a degree plus at least Severson still has time to improve while Moore's already reached the 'he is what he is' stage of his career.

Severson's a better passer, that's why he plays the PP over Moore, they don't use defensemen as shooters on the PP.

Moore was picked 21st overall in 09. Severson was picked 60th in 2012. Moore is just crappy. All he does is skate well and have a decent shot. He's horrendous at every other facet of the game.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

It's not even structure.

In the offensive zone, you never see him get open. You never see him move himself into a prime scoring area when guys have the puck. That's not coaching that's just instinct.

Watch the difference between a kid like Blandisi when he gets into the offensive zone and Zacha. Blandisi is always in the play or in a position to help facilitate the play. He moves to where the puck is going to be or he's in a soft spot to give the player with the puck an outlet (or generate a scoring chance).

No, YOU never see him get open. I have seen him open quite a few times. I just haven't seen him get a pass for a one timer. Or if he does get the puck it was a late pass that should have happened a bit sooner before the D man realized he was by himself open.

And yes, structure or a lack of it does play a part in it. Does he need to have more of a killer instinct in the offensive zone? yes. But to say he's never open is way off.

 

[devilsblood]

Without having focused on him away from the puck, I'm having a hard time buying that Zacha is "clueless" in those spots.

Really not buying that is was obvious to a casual observer.

 

[Triumph]

Without having focused on him away from the puck, I'm having a hard time buying that Zacha is "clueless" in those spots.

Really not buying that is was obvious to a casual observer.

He was really bad off the puck in the first shift of the game and he has been bad off the puck in general here in his first season - sometimes he's not sure who he should be covering or where he should be. It's gotten better, IMO, throughout the season, but he's still not where he should be too often.

I'm also not buying the casual observer thing.

 

[Triumph]

Jacob MacDonald?

MacDonald has an AHL contract and is therefore ineligible to play in the NHL.

 

[NJDevs26]

Moore was picked 21st overall in 09. Severson was picked 60th in 2012. Moore is just crappy. All he does is skate well and have a decent shot. He's horrendous at every other facet of the game.

Not by us...to us Moore's just a retread they brought in, not a first rounder eight years and three teams ago.

 

[Zippy316]

No, YOU never see him get open. I have seen him open quite a few times. I just haven't seen him get a pass for a one timer. Or if he does get the puck it was a late pass that should have happened a bit sooner before the D man realized he was by himself open.

And yes, structure or a lack of it does play a part in it. Does he need to have more of a killer instinct in the offensive zone? yes. But to say he's never open is way off.

Okay, hardly ever open. Is that better?

For a guy with his skill set, it's definitely concerning that he doesn't do a better job of supporting the play and getting open when he doesn't have the puck. In the offensive zone, there's usually ideas on how a team wants to generate offense, but the majority of it ends up being how the line out there creates space and opens up chances. He's 19 so that should improve with time, but it's definitely a fair observation.

The one good thing is that a lot of the times he does have the puck he almost always makes a terrific play with it.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Give your own head a shake. Did you watch the game in person when the cameras were not on Zacha? Zacha is lost without the puck. He really lacks the IQ away from the play. It's not a skill thing since he's very skilled with the puck. He just doesn't know how to get it and doesn't have any idea about positioning in his own zone or the neutral zone. It's not something that can't be improved, but it's going to take a lot of work from the coaching staff to fix that aspect of the game. I don't think he's lazy away from the puck, I think he's just clueless right now. He's only 19, so there is plenty of time.

I had that understanding from watching him on TV, but it was really apparent when watching live. Everyone in the suite came away with the same conclusion. Even the folks who don't really watch the sport were asking why "#37 keeps skating around doing nothing".

Heck, he had one of the most brutal turnovers I've seen in a while in his own zone that any competent team would've capitalized on.

I don't know if I'd be so harsh, but yea I agree there is a lot of work Zacha needs to do away from the play. Especially in the offensive zone if we want him to be a first lienr for us moving forward.

I didn't watch all of yesterday's game but there was one shift in particular that stuck out and honestly it was very similar to most of what I've seen from him all year. The rest of the team was cycling, moving the puck around the offensive end and then Zacha was just kind of skating into the opposition. Not making himself available for a pass, not screening the goalie, not getting down low to continue the cycle. Just kind of... there. I'm pretty sure I made note of that in the GDT yesterday. I have all the faith in the world that he'll improve in that regard but yeah, not good right now.

 

[I Hate Tie DOMI]

The man has 10 goals so skating is not the only thing he can do.

Moore has more goals this year than the golden child Severson has in his career. Haha. Still though, both are not good by any stretch of the imagination this year. Severson maybe in the future, Moore is what he is at this point.

 

[NJDpassantino]

Well I would Still pick Moore over Severson on the PP. Severson has 12 points on the PP and they are all assist. You would think that yes, he is a good PP. My argument is that 8 out of those 12 assist are secondary assist. So, hes not the direct reason for most of the points. Yes, that can be argued. But even 5 on 5, 15 of 27 assist are all secondary. He has played 78 games, TOI 1,309 and only has 89 shots on the year. To top in off he is a .82 point per game player.

Let's look at Moore now. He has 10 assist on the year and 7 of them are primary assist. 5 of them come from 5 on 5 play. He has only played in 60 games, the majority of his goals come from 5 on 5. His TOI for the year is only 890 and has 71 shots on the year and is a .94 point per game player.

Severson just simply plays more, and that is the reason for getting more points. As a D Moore is a better player this year, on one of the worst defensive core in the league. He is managing a -5 while Severson is managing a -29. Yes, Severson could turn it around because he does have age on his side. But, for me there hasn't been any reason to be hopeful for him.

Right now, if I am Shero I am keeping Moore over Lovejoy for the expansion draft and I'd be looking to make Severson a bottom pairing guy. It is clear that we need help on the back end bad. We need some serious Dmen. You can afford to have a dmen like Severson if your D is somewhat good.

 

[Devils Dominion]

some games yes, some games no. Kind of indicative of how the team has no structure.

Zacha would have had the GW assist with 20 seconds left if Camm still could score goals in this league.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Let's take a look at the four guys that have played the last two season's on the backend for the Devils - Severson, Greene, Moore and Merrill.

ESP/60:
1. Severson: 0.82
2. Moore: 0.72
3. Merrill: 0.41
4. Greene: 0.34

On-Ice GF/60:
1. Moore: 1.98
2. Severson: 1.77
3. Merrill: 1.75
4. Greene: 1.60

On-Ice GA/60:
1. Greene: 1.82
2. Severson: 2.24
3. Moore: 2.52
4. Merrill: 2.64

GF%:
1. Greene: 46.8%
2. Severson: 44.1%
3. Moore: 44.0%
4. Merrill: 39.8%

On-Ice SF/60:
1. Severson: 26.8
2. Merrill: 24.8
3. Greene: 24.5
4. Moore: 24.2

On-Ice SA/60:
1. Greene: 27.7
2. Merrill: 27.8
3. Severson: 29.3
4. Moore: 32.4

SF%:
1. Severson: 47.8%
2. Merrill: 47.1%
3. Greene: 47.0%
4. Moore: 42.7%

On-Ice Shooting %:
1. Moore: 8.2%
2. Merrill: 7.1%
3. Severson: 6.6%
4. Greene: 6.5%

On-Ice Save %:
1. Greene: 93.4%
2. Severson: 92.4%
3. Moore: 92.2%
4. Merrill: 90.5%

Moore's only positive potential attribute is his influence on on-ice shooting percentage. And color me very skeptical of his ability to sustain those differentials, as defensemen not named Karlsson and Burns simply can't affect shooting percentages that much.

Once that luck runs its course, Moore's boxcar stats will look like crap, to match his horrible territorial numbers.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Well I would Still pick Moore over Severson on the PP. Severson has 12 points on the PP and they are all assist. You would think that yes, he is a good PP. My argument is that 8 out of those 12 assist are secondary assist. So, hes not the direct reason for most of the points. Yes, that can be argued. But even 5 on 5, 15 of 27 assist are all secondary. He has played 78 games, TOI 1,309 and only has 89 shots on the year. To top in off he is a .82 point per game player.

Let's look at Moore now. He has 10 assist on the year and 7 of them are primary assist. 5 of them come from 5 on 5 play. He has only played in 60 games, the majority of his goals come from 5 on 5. His TOI for the year is only 890 and has 71 shots on the year and is a .94 point per game player.

Severson just simply plays more, and that is the reason for getting more points. As a D Moore is a better player this year, on one of the worst defensive core in the league. He is managing a -5 while Severson is managing a -29. Yes, Severson could turn it around because he does have age on his side. But, for me there hasn't been any reason to be hopeful for him.

Right now, if I am Shero I am keeping Moore over Lovejoy for the expansion draft and I'd be looking to make Severson a bottom pairing guy. It is clear that we need help on the back end bad. We need some serious Dmen. You can afford to have a dmen like Severson if your D is somewhat good.

I would recommend doing some research on the volatility of on-ice shooting percentages over a season. Severson has suffered from some bad luck this year, while Moore has gotten lucky. http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014/6/5/5602668/why-plus-minus-is-the-worst-statistic-in-hockey

Looking at their effect on shots on net is a better analysis.