TSN: Flyers contact Lombardi about role

[Striiker]

Can't support you on this one, man. He GM'd two Cups and somehow got out of the Richards contract.

I'm fine with him around.

I just really don't think it can be as simple as that.

Like I said, Id put those cups on the backs of the scouting/drafting the organization did leading up to those those cups (and much of it was before he became GM there), not his trades/signings.

He's made a lot of bad decisions that have hurt the team and he reminds me a lot more of Holmgren than Hextall, which is scary. The last thing I want is someone who could possibly lead Hextall astray from his current path or influence him into doing something stupid. I don't think that would happen, but even a small chance is worse than no chance, right? I just don't see what he adds to the team or what value his opinion holds, based on the things he's thought were smart but turned out to be terrible (keeping Richards around as long as he did, Browns contract, etc).

 

[Psuhockey]

I just really don't think it can be as simple as that.

Like I said, Id put those cups on the backs of the scouting/drafting the organization did leading up to those those cups (and much of it was before he became GM there), not his trades/signings.

He's made a lot of bad decisions that have hurt the team and he reminds me a lot more of Holmgren than Hextall, which is scary. The last thing I want is someone who could possibly lead Hextall astray from his current path or influence him into doing something stupid. I don't think that would happen, but even a small chance is worse than no chance, right? I just don't see what he adds to the team or what value his opinion holds, based on the things he's thought were smart but turned out to be terrible (keeping Richards around as long as he did, Browns contract, etc).

So are for the Flyers trading Simmonds? When Brown signed that extension he had 6 straight years of 20+ goals and 50+ points. He was 29 when he signed it.

 

[Striiker]

So are for the Flyers trading Simmonds?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

When Brown signed that extension he had 6 straight years of 20+ goals and 50+ points. He was 29 when he signed it.

There's your problem right there. Browns type of player ages like fine... milk. Giving him that contract was a stupid move, we don't need management who thinks that kind of contract is a good idea.

 

[Garbage Goal]

How much of LA's core was actually drafted by Lombardi? Doughty, Kopitar, and Quick to be exact. I don't particularly care, but those three were the cornerstones those Cup wins are built on so I would imagine whether or not he drafted them would affect how much Lombardi actually did to earn those Cups.

I do know that he's made some horrible deals and moves/non-moves over the last handful of years and their prospect system isn't currently anything to write home about.

So are for the Flyers trading Simmonds? When Brown signed that extension he had 6 straight years of 20+ goals and 50+ points. He was 29 when he signed it.

Which is why it was a stupid contract. It's rarely smart to sign a 29 year-old to six years. It's even less smart when it's a player that relies on hitting and scrappy play for half of his appeal.

The Quick contract also doesn't look pretty, albeit that it's more understandable at least.

 

[Striiker]

How much of LA's core was actually drafted by Lombardi? Doughty, Kopitar, and Quick to be exact. I don't particularly care, but those three were the cornerstones those Cup wins are built on so I would imagine whether or not he drafted them would affect how much Lombardi actually did to earn those Cups.

I do know that he's made some horrible deals and moves/non-moves over the last handful of years and their prospect system isn't currently anything to write home about.



Which is why it was a stupid contract. It's rarely smart to sign a 29 year-old to six years. It's even less smart when it's a player that relies on hitting and scrappy play for half of his appeal.

The Quick contract also doesn't look pretty, albeit that it's more understandable at least.

Quick and Kopitar are pre-Lombardi. Both were drafted in 2005 and Lombardi became GM in 2006.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Based on his actions in LA, we don't want his advice.

Holmgen is still around. Nothing has changed with Hextall. I dont expect this will either if he comes in.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

That Brown contract is ugly. He was coming off a poor playoff when they extended him that summer of 2013. The contract didn't even kick in for another year. So he was 30 when the actual contract started. Lombardi signed this guy for 8 years at $5.875M with an 8 team trade list. He just finished his third year in the contract & has been a bad value every year of it so far.

 

[Magua]

Have we had a Gaborik mention yet? Just another instance when Lombardi simply did not know when to cut bait.

Lombardi's first draft was 2006. I think you can make the conclusion that the high picks &/or sheer volume helped them out a lot.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00006664.html

They never changed their player philosophy though & that doesn't fly here in 2017. The Flyers have drafted Dove-McFalls & Twarynski under Hextall that's reminiscent of guys that LA has drafted in droves under Lombardi.

Simmonds, Martinez, Voynov, Toffoli, Muzzin (undrafted) are the impact players they acquired in 11 years of drafting outside the 1st round. That's 2 beyond the 2nd. Even in the 1st, not much doing besides can't miss top 5 picks, except for Pearson at 30, who was a very good pick considering and one of their better ones. They have drafted a lot, but instead of lottery style drafting, they have their Kings style drafting with basically no reward, as you said. Most of the other "hits" are just replacement 4th liners that they love that have little value. And many they over-drafted (some waaaay over-drafted, like Clifford) to begin with.

More importantly, you've got high, some very high, 1st round picks on Bernier, Lewis, Hickey, Teubert.....Forbort might be finally showing something. Hickey ended up an OK depth player, but they got rid of him. Their continual reluctance to even minutely stray from anyone who wasn't big and gritty and Kings-esque, often bypassing real talent and selecting busts in the process, just reeks of awful strategy. Their drafts from 2013 to now are basically a nothing. Maybe Kempe becomes a solid depth player, we'll see. There's a whole lot of Holmgren era Flyers drafting looking at the Kings.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Lombardi had his flaws no doubt as a GM in LA. He did some good things there, but in the end he made some decisions that cost him his job. He probably would still of been there if he agreed to fire Sutter.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Have we had a Gaborik mention yet? Just another instance when Lombardi simply did not know when to cut bait.

It's not a killer or anything like Brown or Gaborik but Clifford getting a five year deal at $1.6M is pretty hilarious. It's just so unnecessary, these guys if you feel the urge that much to have one can be had for a lot less commitment.

 

[Psuhockey]

Delete

 

[Psuhockey]

I'm not sure what you're asking.


There's your problem right there. Browns type of player ages like fine... milk. Giving him that contract was a stupid move, we don't need management who thinks that kind of contract is a good idea.

Simmonds also plays a position, net front power forward, where the player is susceptible to breaking down. So if you think Lombardi was a fool for the Brown contract than it would be equally foolish for Hextall to resign Simmonds at a market value deal. And if it is dumb to resign Simmonds then Hextall should trade him.

You can't bash a guy for giving out a contract and than advocate for the doing the exact same thing under similar circumstances. I think the Brown contract was terrible for the same reasons I think a Simmonds extension will be terrible. I think is unfair to criticize a guy with hindsight years after the deal went bad and not under the circumstances for which the deal was signed. How is resigning Brown after 6 straight seasons pacing at 20+ goals and 50 pts as a captain at 29 different then resigning Simmonds next summer when Simmonds will be turning 30 with one year left with his deal?

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Lol I can already picture it.
Beats are tweeting: Flyers hire Lombardi in special advisory role, speculating on his role.
In the meanwhile Lombardi receives manila envelope containing MacDonalds file.

 

[Striiker]

Simmonds also plays a position, net front power forward, where the player is susceptible to breaking down. So if you think Lombardi was a fool for the Brown contract than it would be equally foolish for Hextall to resign Simmonds at a market value deal. And if it is dumb to resign Simmonds then Hextall should trade him.

You can't bash a guy for giving out a contract and than advocate for the doing the exact same thing under similar circumstances. I think the Brown contract was terrible for the same reasons I think a Simmonds extension will be terrible. I think is unfair to criticize a guy with hindsight years after the deal went bad and not under the circumstances for which the deal was signed. How is resigning Brown after 6 straight seasons pacing at 20+ goals and 50 pts as a captain at 29 different then resigning Simmonds next summer when Simmonds will be turning 30 with one year left with his deal?

There's a couple reasons why the situations are different.
First off, Simmonds and Brown really aren't that similar. Simmonds doesn't play a real physical style like a Brown or Richards, so it's not like his body is taking a beating. He's a "powerforward" and he's tough, but he's rarely giving or taking large hits, he doesn't have any real injury history, and his goal scoring is more about being great in front of the net with deflections/rebounds on the PP... he's not really taking a beating standing there and battling for space like a typical "powerforward" does. Honestly I don't think he's much of a "powerforward" at all, but he gets labeled that since he's good in front of the net and fights sometimes, I guess.

Second, no matter who it is, an 8 year contract at 29 is risky. If Simmonds gets re-signed when his current deal is up, it shouldn't be that long. Nobody is criticizing the Brown contract in hindsight... it was obviously terrible at the time too. The problem wasn't really that Brown was signed, it was the length of his contract.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I'm in the short term high salary camp as well. Going long term with power forwards is a huge no go.

 

[hatcher]

Everyone loved prongers extension and homer had no choice to keep the cap number down. When we're gonna win our cups Hexy will over pay to keep it going as long as he can.

 

[GKJ]

Lombardi had his flaws no doubt as a GM in LA. He did some good things there, but in the end he made some decisions that cost him his job. He probably would still of been there if he agreed to fire Sutter.

By the same token, he would've been fired if the Kings missed the playoffs in 2012. Winning 2 Cups didn't give him the reprieve that almost any other franchise would've given him, especially one that had seen little previous success.

 

[David St Hubbins]

Based on his actions in LA, we don't want his advice.

Based on his experience in sunny LA he can recommend sunscreen for the Trial on the Isle.

 

[Psuhockey]

There's a couple reasons why the situations are different.
First off, Simmonds and Brown really aren't that similar. Simmonds doesn't play a real physical style like a Brown or Richards, so it's not like his body is taking a beating. He's a "powerforward" and he's tough, but he's rarely giving or taking large hits, he doesn't have any real injury history, and his goal scoring is more about being great in front of the net with deflections/rebounds on the PP... he's not really taking a beating standing there and battling for space like a typical "powerforward" does. Honestly I don't think he's much of a "powerforward" at all, but he gets labeled that since he's good in front of the net and fights sometimes, I guess.

Second, no matter who it is, an 8 year contract at 29 is risky. If Simmonds gets re-signed when his current deal is up, it shouldn't be that long. Nobody is criticizing the Brown contract in hindsight... it was obviously terrible at the time too. The problem wasn't really that Brown was signed, it was the length of his contract.

Simmonds takes a beating while standing in front of the net. Plus you have the added danger of taking a puck to the face or eye.

Simmonds will likely get 6 years which will put it on par with Browns as he will be starting it one year later at 31. It will also likely be for a higher caphit than Browns. That's the market. Hextall really isn't going to have much say. Either he is going to pay it or not. Brown's contract wasn't outlandish based on the market at the time. People predicted it would eventually be an albatross much like some posters are predicting a Simmonds extension will be one too. That's the risk of signing players in the late 20's early 30's to long term deals. So the same posters on here bashing the Brown contract should also be warning about extending Simmonds. You can try and rationalize it away but the circumstances are similar; a long term big money extension for a player likely to decline during the course of the contract.

 

[Flukeshot]

Worth taking a look at..Trade History With the Kings

I think Lombardi started strong in LA and deserves a lot of credit for their Cup wins, and then he trailed off in the last couple of years ultimately putting the Kings in a difficult position today.

I think virtually any team and GM would've signed Quick to that contract at the time.

I'd be happy to have him join the Flyers in an advisory role or scouting role. People learn from their experiences and Lombardi has proven he is a good hockey mind.

 

[lancer247]

Hexy doing one of the guys that gave him a shot a favor. Dean has his own contacts and conversations with other GM that Hexy may not have which could benefit the Flyers with the ED coming up, hopefully a glut of d prospects ready to break in, etc. I would gues strictly an advisor role since Dean's LA contract may not pay him if he takes another position. He would probably would lose money taking a position with the Flyers.
Seems like just someplace to hang his hat until Doug Wilson gets canned.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I just really don't think it can be as simple as that.

Like I said, Id put those cups on the backs of the scouting/drafting the organization did leading up to those those cups (and much of it was before he became GM there), not his trades/signings.

He's made a lot of bad decisions that have hurt the team and he reminds me a lot more of Holmgren than Hextall, which is scary. The last thing I want is someone who could possibly lead Hextall astray from his current path or influence him into doing something stupid. I don't think that would happen, but even a small chance is worse than no chance, right? I just don't see what he adds to the team or what value his opinion holds, based on the things he's thought were smart but turned out to be terrible (keeping Richards around as long as he did, Browns contract, etc).

He did draft a ton of their guys though that won them the Cup. Two of the biggest contributors were guys he went out at traded for in Carter and Richards. Basically, he saw what he had to do and made the moves. They probably don't win if he doesn't make those moves, so it's hard to knock him.

If you want to argue 2 Cup wins vs. years of cap trouble, I'm game for that being a reasonable counterbalanced debate, but he absolutely helped win those Cups and I'd gladly trade cap hell for 5-6 years for 2 Cups.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Everyone loved prongers extension and homer had no choice to keep the cap number down. When we're gonna win our cups Hexy will over pay to keep it going as long as he can.

That is not true at all. Most of us were like "...7 years? AND WE GET HIT WITH THE CAP WHEN HE RETIRES!?!? Stupid Holmgren contract"

 

[hatcher]

That is not true at all. Most of us were like "...7 years? AND WE GET HIT WITH THE CAP WHEN HE RETIRES!?!? Stupid Holmgren contract"

Point is Pronger wasn't taking a 1 or 2 yr deal and Homer ponied up like he should and take the pain later.

 

[Hockeypete49]

Man we all need the expansion and real drafts to get here. We are giving this thread way to much attention. I include myself here.