Post-Game Talk: Flyers at Rangers 11-19-14

[haohmaru]

I'm not talking about his scoring and I was on board with his play last season. In his increased role this season he's shown even more. It's ridiculous that people wanted him gone.

He's on a very affordable contract, is as steady as they come defensively and has added offensive skill to his game as well since coming here.

He also looked decent offensively last season. He looks to join the rush and is skating the puck out of the zone more often these days. It's a completely different system than he was playing in in Nashville and one he has adapted to well.

Yup - I've been singing the praises of this deal since it happened. Great contract, steady player, and a huge improvement over what Del Zotto, at the time, was bringing.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

You're looking for perfection. It doesn't exist.

You could just enjoy the victory.

Not at all. There's a difference between expecting perfection and expecting a couple of the 5 or 6 of the grade A chances to go in. The only one that went in was Nash's, and I wouldn't argue Klein's goal was as good of an opportunity as some of the other chance we had. Besides Nash's goal, we had 2 posts, a breakaway, and 2 or 3 wide open nets we either fanned on or just plain missed, and we couldn't score on any of the.

If you're complacent with this, then you're basically saying it's ok that we can't finish for ****ing ****, and that you'll be fine with it when our inability to finish takes away points, which it has many times over the past couple years.

 

[nyr2k2]

Not at all. There's a difference between expecting perfection and expecting a couple of the 5 or 6 of the grade A chances to go in. The only one that went in was Nash's, and I wouldn't argue Klein's goal was as good of an opportunity as some of the other chance we had. Besides Nash's goal, we had 2 posts, a breakaway, and 2 or 3 wide open nets we either fanned on or just plain missed, and we couldn't score on any of the.

If you're complacent with this, then you're basically saying it's ok that we can't finish for ****ing ****, and that you'll be fine with it when our inability to finish takes away points, which it has many times over the past couple years.

Our 51 goals in 19 games puts us at 2.68 goals per game, good for 14th in the NHL. What's the difference between where we're at, and, say, 8th overall in scoring? 4 goals. I don't think anyone is complacent about our scoring; rather, it's just the understanding that literally a single bounce every week and a half is the difference between where we're at and where we want to be. We've had some tough puck luck this season (feels like it, anyway) and I'm optimistic that it will even out a bit as the season wears on.

We're allowing half a goal per game more than last season. If we were playing to last year's standards defensively, we'd be firmly a top ten team in the league.

 

[Ail]

I'm not talking about his scoring and I was on board with his play last season. In his increased role this season he's shown even more. It's ridiculous that people wanted him gone.

He's on a very affordable contract, is as steady as they come defensively and has added offensive skill to his game as well since coming here.

He also looked decent offensively last season. He looks to join the rush and is skating the puck out of the zone more often these days. It's a completely different system than he was playing in in Nashville and one he has adapted to well.

Who is talking about scoring? He's improved defensively to some extent for 19 games.

Re: last season, people see what they want to see.

Again, let's see what the verdict is in April.

 

[Ail]

Yup - I've been singing the praises of this deal since it happened. Great contract, steady player, and a huge improvement over what Del Zotto, at the time, was bringing.

Except that at the time, and possibly even now, it wasn't an improvement at all. However this has been discussed ad nauseam, so carry on with the back patting.

 

[Krams]

Kevin Klein is the greatest player of all time

 

[RiceCooker]

Not at all. There's a difference between expecting perfection and expecting a couple of the 5 or 6 of the grade A chances to go in. The only one that went in was Nash's, and I wouldn't argue Klein's goal was as good of an opportunity as some of the other chance we had. Besides Nash's goal, we had 2 posts, a breakaway, and 2 or 3 wide open nets we either fanned on or just plain missed, and we couldn't score on any of the.

If you're complacent with this, then you're basically saying it's ok that we can't finish for ****ing ****, and that you'll be fine with it when our inability to finish takes away points, which it has many times over the past couple years.

I'm stunned about how many glorious scoring chances Kreider misses on...seems like he get's one or two breakaways or wide open chances a game and miffs on all of them !!

 

[Kakko]

Who is talking about scoring? He's improved defensively to some extent for 19 games.

Re: last season, people see what they want to see.

Again, let's see what the verdict is in April.

19 games vs 30 games

DOn't see how either is a significant sample size

 

[Ail]

19 games vs 30 games

DOn't see how either is a significant sample size

Pretty much the entire point. Nils pls

 

[TheTakedown]

Except that at the time, and possibly even now, it wasn't an improvement at all. However this has been discussed ad nauseam, so carry on with the back patting.

So you wish we had kept Michael Del zotto, who at the time was going to be an RFA, who had the sane qualifying cap hit at Klein has for the next 5 years, a guy who couldn't play defense to save his life, instead of getting a solid top 4 defender at the same cap hit?

That's smart. You should be a GM...

 

[TheTakedown]

Little side note, John Moore's offensive instincts are literally nowhere... Both he and glass make that same stupid move where they log the puck up the left wing and shoot it right into the goalie... I mean wtf... Use your brain.. send it around the boards or drop it to the trailing forward.

 

[AHB*]

Who is talking about scoring? He's improved defensively to some extent for 19 games.

Re: last season, people see what they want to see.

Again, let's see what the verdict is in April.

What are you even arguing? You don't think Klein is that good? I'm not saying he's norris caliber, just that he's worth his contract and is valuable to this team.

I WANTED to see Del Zotto be good, but I didn't. That statement is ridiculous. If Klein sucked I'd have no problem calling it for what it is. I'm a Rangers fan, I rarely, if ever, get feelings towards individual players, outside of Hank and Leetch or those types of Rangers legends.

A 3rd line D-Man is hardly someone I'd blindly defend.

 

[rangers1314]

What are you even arguing? You don't think Klein is that good? I'm not saying he's norris caliber, just that he's worth his contract and is valuable to this team.

Exactly. And the issue has been this. When the rest of the D are playing to up to their potential, Klein is a luxury that most teams would love to have. The issue has been that the 4 guys ahead of him have been either mediocre at best, hurt, or both.

 

[Ail]

So you wish we had kept Michael Del zotto, who at the time was going to be an RFA, who had the sane qualifying cap hit at Klein has for the next 5 years, for a guy who couldn't play defense to save his life?

That's smart. You should be a GM...

I did not realize the only two options were keep DZ or trade for Klein.

I really have no opinion either way, nor did I indicate that I did. With that being said the notion that Klein was a huge improvement over Del Zotto remains false.

The only reason I can surmise people get this idea is because the type of defensemen Del Zotto was left him prone to egregious giveaways and intercepted passes. Couple that with his inconsistencies and you have a defensemen that by the standards of the eye test is going to make very noticeable mistakes because they can directly lead to scoring chances for the other team.

Klein on the other hand makes the kind of mistakes that indirectly lead to scoring chances. He doesn't make dumb outlet passes or lose the puck trying to rush end to end. His game is simple as his mistakes tend to be. This is much less noticeable to the eye test, but is well documented in his metrics.

People got on Del Zotto constantly for shooting wide at an absurd rate, and while shooting wide is not preferable, guess what, at least that means the puck is in the other team's end.

 

[AHB*]

Exactly. And the issue has been this. When the rest of the D are playing to up to their potential, Klein is a luxury that most teams would love to have. The issue has been that the 4 guys ahead of him have been either mediocre at best, hurt, or both.

Exactly and in that time, he's upped his game. Having someone like Klein is a luxury and those types of luxuries are generally a huge reason you have runs like the one we had last year.

I don't understand why we would penny pinch a guy like him out of the lineup, like many here have been advocating. We have him tied up for a while, he's a reliable guy and has filled in admirably with all the crap that's gone on to start the season.

When you defend a guy on here it always gets taken to extremes. I don't think Klein is a first pairing guy in any way, shape or form. But to act like he's not an important cog for this team would be disingenuous and frankly misinformed.

It's like saying Talbot's role isn't important on this team just because he's a backup. You NEED those players to be quality to win in the NHL these days.

Just to respond to the above comment, I don't care what the metrics say, in this case, it's not remotely comparable, Klein is a far superior player to MDZ. There is no way this team makes the finals with MDZ on that third pair. There are flaws in comparing individual metrics for defensive players as the style that their partner plays is very important in comprehending just how valuable they are. I'd love to see John Moore's metrics with Del Zotto and With Klein.

 

[Ail]

What are you even arguing? You don't think Klein is that good? I'm not saying he's norris caliber, just that he's worth his contract and is valuable to this team.

I WANTED to see Del Zotto be good, but I didn't. That statement is ridiculous. If Klein sucked I'd have no problem calling it for what it is. I'm a Rangers fan, I rarely, if ever, get feelings towards individual players, outside of Hank and Leetch or those types of Rangers legends.

A 3rd line D-Man is hardly someone I'd blindly defend.

I'm arguing that the sample size of Klein with the Rangers versus with Nashville is still entirely too small to draw any useful conclusions regarding his talent or improvement overall. However you are free to draw them anyway if it pleases you.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

The Rangers played better, but Philly looked like ****.

 

[rangers1314]

Exactly and in that time, he's upped his game. Having someone like Klein is a luxury and those types of luxuries are generally a huge reason you have runs like the one we had last year.

I don't understand why we would penny pinch a guy like him out of the lineup, like many here have been advocating. We have him tied up for a while, he's a reliable guy and has filled in admirably with all the crap that's gone on to start the season.

When you defend a guy on here it always gets taken to extremes. I don't think Klein is a first pairing guy in any way, shape or form. But to act like he's not an important cog for this team would be disingenuous and frankly misinformed.

It's like saying Talbot's role isn't important on this team just because he's a backup. You NEED those players to be quality to win in the NHL these days.

Just to respond to the above comment, I don't care what the metrics say, in this case, it's not remotely comparable, Klein is a far superior player to MDZ. There is no way this team makes the finals with MDZ on that third pair. There are flaws in comparing individual metrics for defensive players as the style that their partner plays is very important in comprehending just how valuable they are. I'd love to see John Moore's metrics with Del Zotto and With Klein.

Agreed. People scream and yell about "depth" on the forward lines, but when it comes to depth on D its a totally different story.

 

[Ail]

Exactly and in that time, he's upped his game. Having someone like Klein is a luxury and those types of luxuries are generally a huge reason you have runs like the one we had last year.

I don't understand why we would penny pinch a guy like him out of the lineup, like many here have been advocating. We have him tied up for a while, he's a reliable guy and has filled in admirably with all the crap that's gone on to start the season.

When you defend a guy on here it always gets taken to extremes. I don't think Klein is a first pairing guy in any way, shape or form. But to act like he's not an important cog for this team would be disingenuous and frankly misinformed.

It's like saying Talbot's role isn't important on this team just because he's a backup. You NEED those players to be quality to win in the NHL these days.

Just to respond to the above comment, I don't care what the metrics say, in this case, it's not remotely comparable, Klein is a far superior player to MDZ. There is no way this team makes the finals with MDZ on that third pair. There are flaws in comparing individual metrics for defensive players as the style that their partner plays is very important in comprehending just how valuable they are. I'd love to see John Moore's metrics with Del Zotto and With Klein.

No you would not like to see those metrics because they make the DZ/Moore pairing look much better in 140 more minutes played together. On top of that John Moore's metrics go up paired away from Klein.

 

[Off Sides]

If MDZ's play allows for one very high quality shot that results in a goal, yet in that same game he (or who he plays with) takes 3-4 shots on goal(or missed) that result in nothing, as a ratio the shot based metrics are going to say he played a good game? Correct?

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Del Zotto's effort was always in question. Too inconsistent and left you expecting more.

Klein is the opposite. No frills, lunchpail type defense.

In the case of a 5-6, it's better to go unnoticed than noticed.

MDZ had Norris potential and now is on three teams in a season. Now we know he's public with his off-ice hobbies. No thanks.

Klein is in the shadows, lurking.

Good.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Last night was the best i've ever seen Fast play. If he can continue to play like this - he may be a perfect compliment on our 3rd line, and an unreal option on our 4th.

Lindberg should be up here, too.

Our 4th line looked great last night, but as we're still beating a dead horse here, i would prefer Lindberg in against the faster, smarter teams on 4th line LW duties as opposed to Glass.

Glass looked decent last night, fwiw. I imagine his worth starts becoming more valuable later on in the season when teams start playing better, more panicked hockey, more aggressive hockey - in their pursuit to get into the playoffs, and take physical liberties on our team.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

How about a little love for Jesper Fast in this PGT? What you saw last night is what he routinely does in HFD. It's a process and he is progressing.

Now, if AV would only realize that his worst forward is Tanner Glass rather than playing musical chairs with Fast, Duclair and virtually everyone else in the bottom six...

EDIT: just saw Rust's post.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Fast looked good. If he can keep from taking dumb penalties, he is a nice option for the 4th line.

Regarding Glass, the guy literally does nothing well. He missed a wide open net last night, and struggles with the most rudimentary plays at the NHL level. I feel like a 4th line of Stempniak-Moore-Fast would be an asset most nights. Plug Glass in against the tougher teams, or if someone needs a push, but for Christ's sake, keep him out of the regular lineup.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Fast looked good. If he can keep from taking dumb penalties, he is a nice option for the 4th line.

Regarding Glass, the guy literally does nothing well. He missed a wide open net last night, and struggles with the most rudimentary plays at the NHL level. I feel like a 4th line of Stempniak-Moore-Fast would be an asset most nights. Plug Glass in against the tougher teams, or if someone needs a push, but for Christ's sake, keep him out of the regular lineup.

That was Brassard.