Confirmed with Link: Flyers aquire Justin Bailey from Buffalo in exchange for Taylor Leier (Bailey recalled 2/10)

[Beef Invictus]

Almost every single example is

So you would be.....

again

I can tell you didn't actually examine that list because I only included the players who are of comparable value, and numerous of them are forwards. Some of them are forwards of similar age with less NHL experience. Shall I take it back to 2007 to really blow the doors off?

Your endless trolling indicates you know your position is trash. All you've got in response is "NUH UH" and failed attempts at agitation.

 

[The Madrigal]

I can tell you didn't actually examine that list because I only included the players who are of comparable value, and numerous of them are forwards. Some of them are forwards of similar age with less NHL experience. Shall I take it back to 2007 to really blow the doors off?

Your endless trolling indicates you know your position is trash. All you've got in response is "NUH UH" and failed attempts at agitation.

It's sad you actually think I am trolling. You made a ridiculously stupid comment, got called out for it, and continue to double down time and time again rather than take L and move on.

Friggin Cooper Marody for example was a 21 year old prospect who got traded in the off season for a future draft pick and is in ZERO way comparable to your comment that "playoff teams" would love to give up a 3rd or 4th round pick for a player like Jordan Weal at or near the deadline.

Some of the players were defenseman and anyone who follows the NHL at all knows that the majority of NHL teams has more depth at forward than they do on defense so depth guys on D always carry move value at the deadline.

Some of the guys you listed actually have size and toughness which playoff teams are looking for when they add depth for long grueling playoff runs.

I have already been over this several times. When teams are looking to give up a 3rd or 4th round pick for a playoff run they are looking for that player to add something to the table. Playoff experience, size, toughness, face off skills, PK skills, or someone who can at least produce significant offense. Weal brings none of that to the table, he is trash that shouldn't even be in the NHL. On no planet where common sense and reason reside does anyone think that Jordan Weal is worth a 3rd round pick.

 

[Amorgus]

Is there an actual lickbals.gif? I've been trying to google it but having no luck. I figure something referenced that often would be as easy to find as goatse, lemonparty, and tubgirl.

 

[kudymen]

Is there an actual lickbals.gif? I've been trying to google it but having no luck. I figure something referenced that often would be as easy to find as goatse, lemonparty, and tubgirl.

At first it may have looked lazy on my part just to type it instead of posting a gif, but I have actually never found one

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's sad you actually think I am trolling. You made a ridiculously stupid comment, got called out for it, and continue to double down time and time again.

Friggin Cooper Marody for example was a 21 year old prospect who got traded in the off season for a future draft pick and is in ZERO way comparable to your comment that "playoff teams" would love to give up a 3rd or 4th round pick for a player like Jordan Weal at or near the deadline.

I didn't double down on it. I backed it up.

See, I mentioned the TDL and playoff teams because that's where value gets inflated. As it turns out, there are also non playoff teams and teams away from the TDL willing to pay more. It ends up strengthening my assertion that Fletcher could have gotten more.

Marody was a 6th round pick. Weal has proven more at every single level of hockey and has proven he can play on an NHL roster. Marody got more value somehow.

Thanks for strengthening my argument by letting me get into the weeds. Maybe next time don't flip out if someone raises a minor and valid concern about Fletcher and we won't be here.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Weal and Leier have been traded.

Weise and Lehtera are still here.

Promising stuff.

Come on man. Weal was a borderline tweener. Leier is not a NHL player. Those players are easy to move.
We tried to give Weise away for free twice and no one took the bait.
No one is going to take Lehtera given how ineffective he is as a player and having legal issues. We only have to deal with Lehtera for 35 more games.

EDIT: maybe the Flyers dont want to pick a fight with the PA. None of us are privy to the CBA on what it says about contract termination for a player who hasn’t been convicted of anything yet.
No argument from me on how bad he is. He should not be playing at all. He can collect a paycheck eating popcorn in the press box for the rest of the year.

 

[The Madrigal]

I didn't double down on it. I backed it up.

See, I mentioned the TDL and playoff teams because that's where value gets inflated. As it turns out, there are also non playoff teams and teams away from the TDL willing to pay more. It ends up strengthening my assertion that Fletcher could have gotten more.

Marody was a 6th round pick. Weal has proven more at every single level of hockey and has proven he can play on an NHL roster. Marody got more value somehow.

Thanks for strengthening my argument by letting me get into the weeds. Maybe next time don't flip out if someone raises a minor and valid concern about Fletcher and we won't be here.

You are literally changing the argument to try to support your stupid comment AND comparing apples to oranges.

You said playoff teams would easily give up a 3rd or 4th round pick for a player like Weal. I proved that to be incorrect by both using examples of player far better than him going for that, AND pointing out the obvious things teams are looking for in depth acquisitions at the deadline none of which do Weal possess.

Also, comparing a 21 year old prospect being traded in the offseason for a draft pick a year down the road, to a soon to be 27 year old fringe NHL player being traded in February is the definition of an apples to oranges comparison and desperately trying to shift the narrative to support you wedging your foot down your throat.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Almost every single example is

So you would be.....

again

That bottom photo made my eyes bleed and I also threw up in my mouth

 

[Beef Invictus]

You are literally changing the argument to try to support your stupid comment AND comparing apples to oranges.

You said playoff teams would easily give up a 3rd or 4th round pick for a player like Weal. I proved that to be incorrect by both using examples of player far better than him going for that, AND pointing out the obvious things teams are looking for in depth acquisitions at the deadline none of which do Weal possess.

Also, comparing a 21 year old prospect being traded in the offseason for a draft pick a year down the road, to a soon to be 27 year old fringe NHL player being traded in February is the definition of an apples to oranges comparison and desperately trying to shift the narrative to support you wedging your foot down your throat.

My argument was that in the crunched TDL market they'd pay more. Upon closer examination, it turns out that GMs are willing to pay more in general at all times regardless of team situation. That is relevant information and there is no reason for me to leave it out. I know it's inconvenient for you because you've decided to dig in for no reason.

My original point that began your freakout was that Weal has more value than a 6th and I've shown that using comparable trades. You didn't prove it to be incorrect when you ignored all the trades I listed which show I'm right. All you did was cherrypick, a sure sign of a weak argument. If you had actually assessed ALL trades as I've done, you'd have seen I'm right.

It isn't apples to oranges. Weal has more value than a thoroughly unproven 6th rounder. Weal is a 3rd rounder who has done about as well as you can expect the average 3rd rounder to do. You're really big on making grand proclamations that aren't true, aren't you? It's because you know I'm right and I've shown it.

 

[The Madrigal]

My argument was that in the crunched TDL market they'd pay more. Upon closer examination, it turns out that GMs are willing to pay more in general at all times regardless of team situation. That is relevant information and there is no reason for me to leave it out. I know it's inconvenient for you because you've decided to dig in for no reason.

My original point that began your freakout was that Weal has more value than a 6th and I've shown that using comparable trades. You didn't prove it to be incorrect when you ignored all the trades I listed which show I'm right. All you did was cherrypick, a sure sign of a weak argument. If you had actually assessed ALL trades as I've done, you'd have seen I'm right.

It isn't apples to oranges. Weal has more value than a thoroughly unproven 6th rounder. Weal is a 3rd rounder who has done about as well as you can expect the average 3rd rounder to do. You're really big on making grand proclamations that aren't true, aren't you? It's because you know I'm right and I've shown it.

A few house cleaning items:

Because anyone who follows the NHL knows that every year just about every NHL team has more forward depth than defense depth, you simply cannot compare the value a defenseman goes for versus a forward. Depth defenseman ALWAYS carry more value than depth forwards do at or near the deadline.

Second, teams that look to add depth for playoff runs are usually looking for some type of intangible that improves their team in an area of weakness. If it's not scoring, it's face off skills, PK skills, size, toughness, playoff experience, etc. Weal literally brings none of these intangibles to the table. He is a small, 20 point fringe NHL'er who doesn't bring size, toughness, or high end faceoff/PK skills, that isn't good enough offensively to play in a bad teams top 9 consistently, let alone a playoff team.

You said, and I am quoting this word for word:

" Playoff teams are more than happy to get players like Weal for a 3rd or 4th. "

So let's take a look at every forward who was dealt at or near the last two deadlines to a playoff or potential playoff team:

2018
Patrick Maroon - Went for a third round pick and nothing prospect
27 goals and 40+ points in 2015-2017, in the middle of a 17 goal/40+ point season in 16-17. Brings size and toughness. In no way comparable to weal. w

Ryan Reaves - Went for a 4th round pick
Has size, toughness, and playoff experience that Weal doesn't. Is a legit NHL 4th liner. In no way comparable to Weal.

Mark Letestu - Went for a 4th round pick
Had SEVERAL 25-35 point NHL seasons and playoff experience. A better version of Weal.

Frank Vatrano - Went for a 3rd round pick
Was 23 years old when he got traded, not 26. Still a prospect versus a veteran. Better AHL and NHL numbers than Weal at the time of trade. Clearly proven to be a better player with 13 goals in 44 games for Florida this season.

Nikita Sashnikov - Went for a 4th round pick
I will give you that one. Of course, people do make bad trades sometimes so this could be considered an outlier as you will see.

Joe Morrow - Went for a 4th round pick
Size that Weal doesn't have, former first round pick, and was younger than Weal at the time he was traded.

2017
Jarome Iginla - Went for a conditional 4th round pick
I don't even need to explain this one

Tomas Vanek - Went for a 3rd round pick
I don't even need to explain this one

Dwight King - Went for a 4th round pick
6'4 230 and tough. 70+ games of playoff experience including cup runs with LA. Seasons if 15 goals/30 points and 13 goals/26 points which is better than Weal.

Viktor Stalberg - Went for a 3rd round pick
6'3 210, very good skater, very good on PK, playoff experience including cup runs with Chicago.

Vernon Fidler - Went for a 4th
Tough little bastard who skated extremely well. Was good on faceoffs and on the PK. Had 5 seasons with double digit goals 4 seasons with 25+ points so a more consistent and productive player than Weal offensively.

Tomas Jurco - Went for a 3rd round pick
Bigger, drafted early in the 2nd round, and had just turned 24 when he was traded as opposed to being almost 27 like Weal. Either way an argument can be made that he is comparable to Weal.

So over the last two years 12 forwards were dealt at or near the deadline to playoff or potential playoff teams for a 3rd or 4th round pick. There is only ONE out of the TWELVE that you can say is comparable to Weal (Sashnikov) and ONE more that you can even make an argument for as being comparable to Weal (Jurco).

Again, one last time since I know you are going to try to change the argument and not man up to the exact words you said which I had, have, and will continue to prove as being flat out wrong:

"Playoff teams are more than happy to get players like Weal for a 3rd or 4th."

 

[Laveuglette]

AHL move, whatever. Eager to see the first "true" trade.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A few house cleaning items:

Because anyone who follows the NHL knows that every year just about every NHL team has more forward depth than defense depth, you simply cannot compare the value a defenseman goes for versus a forward. Depth defenseman ALWAYS carry more value than depth forwards do at or near the deadline.

Second, teams that look to add depth for playoff runs are usually looking for some type of intangible that improves their team in an area of weakness. If it's not scoring, it's face off skills, PK skills, size, toughness, playoff experience, etc. Weal literally brings none of these intangibles to the table. He is a small, 20 point fringe NHL'er who doesn't bring size, toughness, or high end faceoff/PK skills, that isn't good enough offensively to play in a bad teams top 9 consistently, let alone a playoff team.

You said, and I am quoting this word for word:

" Playoff teams are more than happy to get players like Weal for a 3rd or 4th. "

So let's take a look at every forward who was dealt at or near the last two deadlines to a playoff or potential playoff team:

2018
Patrick Maroon - Went for a third round pick and nothing prospect
27 goals and 40+ points in 2015-2017, in the middle of a 17 goal/40+ point season in 16-17. Brings size and toughness. In no way comparable to weal. w

Ryan Reaves - Went for a 4th round pick
Has size, toughness, and playoff experience that Weal doesn't. Is a legit NHL 4th liner. In no way comparable to Weal.

Mark Letestu - Went for a 4th round pick
Had SEVERAL 25-35 point NHL seasons and playoff experience. A better version of Weal.

Frank Vatrano - Went for a 3rd round pick
Was 23 years old when he got traded, not 26. Still a prospect versus a veteran. Better AHL and NHL numbers than Weal at the time of trade. Clearly proven to be a better player with 13 goals in 44 games for Florida this season.

Nikita Sashnikov - Went for a 4th round pick
I will give you that one. Of course, people do make bad trades sometimes so this could be considered an outlier as you will see.

Joe Morrow - Went for a 4th round pick
Size that Weal doesn't have, former first round pick, and was younger than Weal at the time he was traded.

2017
Jarome Iginla - Went for a conditional 4th round pick
I don't even need to explain this one

Tomas Vanek - Went for a 3rd round pick
I don't even need to explain this one

Dwight King - Went for a 4th round pick
6'4 230 and tough. 70+ games of playoff experience including cup runs with LA. Seasons if 15 goals/30 points and 13 goals/26 points which is better than Weal.

Viktor Stalberg - Went for a 3rd round pick
6'3 210, very good skater, very good on PK, playoff experience including cup runs with Chicago.

Vernon Fidler - Went for a 4th
Tough little bastard who skated extremely well. Was good on faceoffs and on the PK. Had 5 seasons with double digit goals 4 seasons with 25+ points so a more consistent and productive player than Weal offensively.

Tomas Jurco - Went for a 3rd round pick
Bigger, drafted early in the 2nd round, and had just turned 24 when he was traded as opposed to being almost 27 like Weal. Either way an argument can be made that he is comparable to Weal.

So over the last two years 12 forwards were dealt at or near the deadline to playoff or potential playoff teams for a 3rd or 4th round pick. There is only ONE out of the TWELVE that you can say is comparable to Weal (Sashnikov) and ONE more that you can even make an argument for as being comparable to Weal (Jurco).

Again, one last time since I know you are going to try to change the argument and not man up to the exact words you said which I had, have, and will continue to prove as being flat out wrong:

"Playoff teams are more than happy to get players like Weal for a 3rd or 4th."

Fascinating how you aren't going back further. Like, to my original post, where I was saying he could get higher than a 6th. Why aren't you doing that? Why are you focusing on something later, where I became more specific in pursuit of my original point? OH RIGHT. Because that ruins your argument and you cannot address it.

Fair enough on Dmen. I still provided numerous comparable forwards who got better value, and from teams that aren't under the motivation to overpay to boot. I backed up my points, you've failed to refute it, and cherrypicking other trades doesn't change that reality. Get over it.

You're dropping the mic on your own toes.


Here is my original assertion that began our debate before you freaked out like a toddler having a toy taken away:

"Weal is definitely worth more than a 6th. Come on. A 6th is essentially nothing. It's not the greatest start."

I have shown players like Weal get more than a 6th, including lesser players. I've proven my point. You've absolutely failed to disprove that Weal can get more than a 6th.

 

[hatcher]

A few house cleaning items:

Because anyone who follows the NHL knows that every year just about every NHL team has more forward depth than defense depth, you simply cannot compare the value a defenseman goes for versus a forward. Depth defenseman ALWAYS carry more value than depth forwards do at or near the deadline.

Second, teams that look to add depth for playoff runs are usually looking for some type of intangible that improves their team in an area of weakness. If it's not scoring, it's face off skills, PK skills, size, toughness, playoff experience, etc. Weal literally brings none of these intangibles to the table. He is a small, 20 point fringe NHL'er who doesn't bring size, toughness, or high end faceoff/PK skills, that isn't good enough offensively to play in a bad teams top 9 consistently, let alone a playoff team.

You said, and I am quoting this word for word:

" Playoff teams are more than happy to get players like Weal for a 3rd or 4th. "

So let's take a look at every forward who was dealt at or near the last two deadlines to a playoff or potential playoff team:

2018
Patrick Maroon - Went for a third round pick and nothing prospect
27 goals and 40+ points in 2015-2017, in the middle of a 17 goal/40+ point season in 16-17. Brings size and toughness. In no way comparable to weal. w

Ryan Reaves - Went for a 4th round pick
Has size, toughness, and playoff experience that Weal doesn't. Is a legit NHL 4th liner. In no way comparable to Weal.

Mark Letestu - Went for a 4th round pick
Had SEVERAL 25-35 point NHL seasons and playoff experience. A better version of Weal.

Frank Vatrano - Went for a 3rd round pick
Was 23 years old when he got traded, not 26. Still a prospect versus a veteran. Better AHL and NHL numbers than Weal at the time of trade. Clearly proven to be a better player with 13 goals in 44 games for Florida this season.

Nikita Sashnikov - Went for a 4th round pick
I will give you that one. Of course, people do make bad trades sometimes so this could be considered an outlier as you will see.

Joe Morrow - Went for a 4th round pick
Size that Weal doesn't have, former first round pick, and was younger than Weal at the time he was traded.

2017
Jarome Iginla - Went for a conditional 4th round pick
I don't even need to explain this one

Tomas Vanek - Went for a 3rd round pick
I don't even need to explain this one

Dwight King - Went for a 4th round pick
6'4 230 and tough. 70+ games of playoff experience including cup runs with LA. Seasons if 15 goals/30 points and 13 goals/26 points which is better than Weal.

Viktor Stalberg - Went for a 3rd round pick
6'3 210, very good skater, very good on PK, playoff experience including cup runs with Chicago.

Vernon Fidler - Went for a 4th
Tough little bastard who skated extremely well. Was good on faceoffs and on the PK. Had 5 seasons with double digit goals 4 seasons with 25+ points so a more consistent and productive player than Weal offensively.

Tomas Jurco - Went for a 3rd round pick
Bigger, drafted early in the 2nd round, and had just turned 24 when he was traded as opposed to being almost 27 like Weal. Either way an argument can be made that he is comparable to Weal.

So over the last two years 12 forwards were dealt at or near the deadline to playoff or potential playoff teams for a 3rd or 4th round pick. There is only ONE out of the TWELVE that you can say is comparable to Weal (Sashnikov) and ONE more that you can even make an argument for as being comparable to Weal (Jurco).

Again, one last time since I know you are going to try to change the argument and not man up to the exact words you said which I had, have, and will continue to prove as being flat out wrong:

"Playoff teams are more than happy to get players like Weal for a 3rd or 4th."

Weal after reading that would get a 13th in a 7 round draft.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

This thread is making my eyes hurt from the books being wrote.

 

[FLYguy3911]

A 6th or 7th round pick is more useful than a 22 yr. old second round pick who can skate? WTF? How many 6th or 7th rounders make the NHL. A player with possible upside is way more valuable than a late round pick. The prospect love is so rampant on this board that sometimes it affects people's common sense. I know there are posts on this board where people wanted the Flyers to draft Bailey. This team is too dam small on the bottom 6 to compete in the Eastern Conf. Guys like Weal and Leier on the bottom 6 are ineffective. And they are not good enough to play in the top 6.

You do realize any team in the league could have had this 2nd round pick a couple months ago, without giving up any assets, right?

Marody, Laczynski, Bernhardt, Lycksell, Kalynuk were drafted in the 6th and 7th rounds by this team alone in the last handful of drafts. Add in Myers and Zamula who got contracts shortly after going undrafted (as they were most certainly on the radar for those picks). Each draft has several re-entries that wind up being top 100 picks the following draft. With proper scouting, these guys could be had in the 6th and 7th rounds in their original draft years.

Not to mention, if you trade for a draft pick, you don't actually have to draft a player with that pick. Draft picks are currency. Every team wants draft picks. Every team doesn't want Justin Bailey (as we found out in October).

This is simply one AAAA player getting traded for another. Low risk. Low reward.

 

[The Madrigal]

Puts foot down throat and says playoff teams will easily give up a 3rd or 4th for Weal

Gets completely owned and proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt with factual information.

Says it doest matter that he said that and was proven wrong because blah blah blah blah blah blah

Fires shot throughout the process about embarrassing behavior and back peddling.

You cant even make up this level of complete and total ignorance, LMAO.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Puts foot down throat and says playoff teams will easily give up a 3rd or 4th for Weal

Gets completely owned and proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt with factual information.

Says it doest matter that he said that and was proven wrong because blah blah blah blah blah blah

Fires shot throughout the process about embarrassing behavior and back peddling.

You cant even make up this level of complete and total ignorance, LMAO.

Says "Weal can get more than a 6th"


Madrigal loses his mind and can't let it go.

Proves my point is right.

Madrigal still can't stop whining.

 

[The Madrigal]

Playoff teams are more than happy to get players like Weal for a 3rd or 4th.

GM Chuck Fletcher (Part 2)

 

[deadhead]

Much ado about nothing.
Weal isn't "garbage," anymore than Cousins was "garbage."

Both are tweeners who can play as depth on bad teams but good teams shouldn't be fooled by a 30 point season - Riley Nash is a good example, late bloomer, a career year last year, 8 ES points in 47 games this year.

These guys have limited value b/c they don't fit a lot of roles, they're not forecheckers, they're rarely good PK guys, so you have to spot them in the right situation.

Bailey is a size/speed project, so is NAK for that matter, even if they don't translate their AHL scoring to the NHL, they can still develop into solid 4th line energy guys because of their physical tools, and maybe plus PK guys.

You have to fill out the bottom six, good teams have solid 3rd line guys and use the 4th line to break in talented rookies along side energy guys. Bad teams have to play Weal or Cousins on the 3rd line due to lack of depth and veteran scrubs and limited players like Leier on the 4th line - been there, done that.

 

[onlylordsvsmorebp]

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Nice.

 

[Beef Invictus]

GM Chuck Fletcher (Part 2)

Scroll up further. To my original point that made you go insane, not the later comment you're choosing to hyperfocus on because you know my original point is right.

Actually here, I'll help you since I know you won't do it:

Weal is definitely worth more than a 6th. Come on. A 6th is essentially nothing. It's not the greatest start.

 

[Striiker]

 

[Tripod]

Scroll up further. To my original point that made you go insane, not the later comment you're choosing to hyperfocus on because you know my original point is right.

Actually here, I'll help you since I know you won't do it:

But Beef...if Weal is worth more than a 6th, are we to believe that Fletch got a call for Weal, was offered a 6th, and did not call one other team in the entire league to see if anyone would offer a 5th?

Or that Fletch made 1 call to AZ to see his worth, was offered a 6th, and never called any other team?

I find that hard to believe.

I personally said I thought he was worth a 4th or 5th. But I also said no playoff team is looking to add a Weal type guy for the playoff run. Almost every team has a Weal type in their system...either on their team or toiling in the AHL.

And in your examples, I see Marody who was a prospect. Weal is an upcoming UFA.

Honestly, how many teams are looking for a 26 year old, small 3rd line player who can get 25 points and is a UFA? If AZ did not have 3 of 4 centers hurt, it might have been zero.

 

[The Madrigal]

"Playoff teams are more than happy to get players like Weal for a 3rd or 4th."

So according to you your original point is correct, but even though you said this and were unequivocally proven wrong it doesn't matter because you get to pick and choose which points of yours count. Got it