Friedman: Florida Panthers a stealth option for Max Pacioretty

[DaPhazz]

Yea much brighter future than Habs right now. The past is the past. I wasn’t even alive the last time the Habs won a cup. I’m sure the Panthers would have plenty of cups if they were in the league when there were only six teams too.

Cups are one thing, having a reserved spot at the bottom tier year after year is another.

On paper, Florida's immediate futur is brighter, I agree on that.

 

[admiralcadillac]

I can see us trading one of our very good prospects - but it won't be Borgstrom.

Mascherin could be a possibility IMO. Mascherin, first, and a cap dump (Vrbata?) for Patches.

no

 

[Benstheman]

no

I agree. If a deal has to occur between the two teams, which i really doubt, if Borgstrom is not available, i'm aiming for Tippett and 2018 1st.

 

[loadie]

Yea much brighter future than Habs right now. The past is the past. I wasn’t even alive the last time the Habs won a cup.I’m sure the Panthers would have plenty of cups if they were in the league when there were only six teams too.

Are you sure? Very good teams such as the Boston Bruins and Chicago Black Hawks only won three cups before expansion. Just because there were only six teams didn't guarantee an automatic cup win. You also say that your future is brighter than the Habs. Again, are you sure? After having multiple years with top ten picks what do you have to show for it? A deep prospect pool with very little on ice success in relation to draft positioning. As poorly run (and it's terrible right now) as the Habs have been throughout the years since their last cup win and only two top ten picks since 2006, I'd rather take the Habs future and the actual success they've had on the ice than a team that are a perennial bottom team no matter how often they draft in the top ten (7 times since 2006) and with little to show for it.

 

[FrolikFan67]

no one is acting like borgstrom is the second coming, but its not realistic to think youre getting borgstrom for pacioretty.

1.) hes a winger
2.) hes 29
3.) he only has 1 year remaining
4.) he's currently on a down-ish year production wise

no team is going to give up one of the best prospects, a center at that, for an aging winger with one year remaining. its not happening. when was the last time that happened. nothing against patches because hes incredible, id absolutely love to have him, and the past 4 years speak for themselves, but its just not realistically going to happen.

IF it were the panthers getting him my guess is it starts with a 1st, which could possibly be in the 8-15 range. considering montreal is currently in the 6th spot they could walk away with one of the top D and one of the top C as well. the pick along with a strong prospect but not a borgstrom/tippett level one, like a mascherin or heponiemi or gildon. and a young roster player, like mccann or petrovic or mccoshen. i think thats more in the realm of possibility. whether it happens or not. which it probably wont.

 

[Benstheman]

no one is acting like borgstrom is the second coming, but its not realistic to think youre getting borgstrom for pacioretty.

1.) hes a winger
2.) hes 29
3.) he only has 1 year remaining
4.) he's currently on a down-ish year production wise

no team is going to give up one of the best prospects, a center at that, for an aging winger with one year remaining. its not happening. when was the last time that happened. nothing against patches because hes incredible, id absolutely love to have him, and the past 4 years speak for themselves, but its just not realistically going to happen.

IF it were the panthers getting him my guess is it starts with a 1st, which could possibly be in the 8-15 range. considering montreal is currently in the 6th spot they could walk away with one of the top D and one of the top C as well. the pick along with a strong prospect but not a borgstrom/tippett level one, like a mascherin or heponiemi or gildon. and a young roster player, like mccann or petrovic or mccoshen. i think thats more in the realm of possibility. whether it happens or not. which it probably wont.

I agree with that. I think if the Habs trade with a team that tries to get into the playoffs (AKA Panthers or Carolina), the 2018 1st pick would be the big piece coming back.

The risk for the Habs though is if the team makes the playoffs, the pick becomes more a late 10'-early 20' pick, which is underwhelming.

i would do :
-conditionnal 2018 1st that becomes 2019 1st if Panthers win the lottery.
-Heponiemi
-McCann
-conditionnal 2nd if the Panthers make the playoffs

 

[FrolikFan67]

I agree with that. I think if the Habs trade with a team that tries to get into the playoffs (AKA Panthers or Carolina), the 2018 1st pick would be the big piece coming back.

The risk for the Habs though is if the team makes the playoffs, the pick becomes more a late 10'-early 20' pick, which is underwhelming.

i would do :
-conditionnal 2018 1st that becomes 2019 1st if Panthers win the lottery.
-Heponiemi
-McCann
-conditionnal 2nd if the Panthers make the playoffs

yea, thats why i feel like they may wait till the draft to do any potential trade and see how the lottery shakes out first, along with the final order. imo what you put is fair, id just make the conditional 2nd a '19 considering we have arizona's this year, thats pick 32 or 33. but thats with the assumption they can extend him. thats a risky bet to lose if its only 1.5yr of him for a young team like the panthers.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Pacioretty is the most 'meh' proven 30 goalscorer i could think of adding to my team for a playoff push. If he disappears in the playoffs who is to say he doesn't disappear in the most critical time in March ?

That said he would definitely help the Panthers. If nothing else makes it easier to beat spoiler teams when you have more scoring.

Idk if it makes sense to start trading 1sts or top prospects for him though. Panthers are clearly in that "waiting prospects to step up" phase. I'd imagine they're going to look a lot better 2 years from now, might as well go after him in the FA market then if they still feel like they could use him. Florida in general feels like it could be a good destination for Patches, especially coming from Montreal.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Borgstrom is a nice player that has absolutely no chance of playing top 6 center in Florida. Trocheck and Barkov have that locked down for the next five years at least.

I don't think this is the worst move in the world. But the package won't come with a first round pick once Borgstrom is there. It becomes different additional parts which I am sure will upset Montreal fans.

I get liking Borgstrom a lot, I really do. I don't like him more than the idea of running out for probably at least 40 minutes a night Barkov-Hubie & Trocheck-Patches or flip the wingers. Still the point being that would be really difficult on the other teams. With how weak the division is and Ekblad returning to form that spells trouble for everyone else if they did pull the trigger.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Borgstrom is a nice player that has absolutely no chance of playing top 6 center in Florida. Trocheck and Barkov have that locked down for the next five years at least.

I don't think this is the worst move in the world. But the package won't come with a first round pick once Borgstrom is there. It becomes different additional parts which I am sure will upset Montreal fans.

I get liking Borgstrom a lot, I really do. I don't like him more than the idea of running out for probably at least 40 minutes a night Barkov-Hubie & Trocheck-Patches or flip the wingers. Still the point being that would be really difficult on the other teams. With how weak the division is and Ekblad returning to form that spells trouble for everyone else if they did pull the trigger.

The hope is to have Borgstrom transition to LW and play with Barkov to form the newest and hippest Finnish duo to rule the world. Just have to strap in tight and enjoy the ride, the only question is who will play either role in their tell all movie that comes out 20 years down the road.

 

[BB88]

Panthers fans acting like Borgstrom is the second coming of McJesus, and Patches is an average top 6 winger. Gotta give to get something in return. Also, there's no guarantee Borgstrom's skillset translate to the NHL. Patches is a proven 30-35 goals scorer which are almost never available.

I can see why some fans wouldn't want to do that trade, but it does makes sense for both teams. Especially if it gets done at the draft and the Panthers works a long term deal with Pacioretty beforehand.

I believe this is a very optimistic return. I'd pull the trigger on that no question, especially with the margin of quality not being huge from 7 to 10 or 6 to 8.

I wonder if Florida would rather keep Malgin or Bjugstad? If they prefer hang on to Bjugstad, Malgin would fill our need better as he's a centre and younger.

But yeah, Borgstrom is a very good piece to pursue. Not sure Tallon would trade him... but if they are serious about being a playoff team soon, Pacioretty would be such a good fit in Florida. He'd thrive in a secondary role behind Trochek, Huberdeau, Barkov. Could be a win-win deal.

If Florida gives up 1st+ Borgstrom for Pac it basically makes it impossible to fix their defense, which is the much bigger longterm issue than their top6.

 

[Baksfamous112]

As someone who dare watch all habs games, and not a fan of Max, something needs to be remembered...
He is no longer the player he was before the Chara hit, he no longer dominate the game as he used to. He still scores tho.
Montreal don't need to trade him and I highly doubt he will be traded. Only way he gets traded before deadline is for a big package including the old Thomas, Vilardi, ... and 1st.

Myself would not give that to get Max if I was managing other teams, don't consider his game being dominant enough to warrant the price.

Thing is, he still have a year, so habs won't be interested in lesser offers as Max playing for a contract next year either mean they get about same assets as being offered now, better if he have a dominant year.

For all the talk he generates, this is one player that will probably not move now...

Exactly! He turned it up after getting back from that injury.

 

[schnapshot]

If Florida gives up 1st+ Borgstrom for Pac it basically makes it impossible to fix their defense, which is the much bigger longterm issue than their top6.

Their top 4 really isn't that bad.

The fact that they have Bjugstad and Malgin playing in their top 6 though...

 

[BB88]

Their top 4 really isn't that bad.

The fact that they have Bjugstad and Malgin playing in their top 6 though...

They don't have a #1D, they don't have anyone you want to play against top lines of the league. Their prospect pool is heavily dominated by F prospects. They have 1 D-prospect.

Huberdeau 24y- Barkov 22y
Trocheck 24y- Dadonov 28y
top6.

That's a franchise 2way #1C, a low end #1C, a #1Lw& Top6 Rw. Now add Borgstrom, Tippett, Mascherin, Hepo into the mix and does that look weak anymore, especially Borgstromg should be NHL ready next year as should Tippett.

 

[schnapshot]

They don't have a #1D, they don't have anyone you want to play against top lines of the league.

Ekblad? Serious question, I don't watch the Panthers much.

 

[Depch]

Delete

 

[BB88]

Ekblad? Serious question, I don't watch the Panthers much.

No, he can score goals but his skating& defensive game make him a bad choice for that.

Florida is carried by Barkov/Huberdeau/Trocheck.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Ekblad? Serious question, I don't watch the Panthers much.

He's a shadow compared to his rookie year.
But he has potential to become a #1 still.

 

[Baksfamous112]

No, he can score goals but his skating& defensive game make him a bad choice for that.

Florida is carried by Barkov/Huberdeau/Trocheck.

Look, Florida doesn’t have a great D but if there’s one bright spot in there its freaking Ekblad. He’s carrying the Panthers D on his back. Watch more hockey before spitting out dumb comment

 

[Depch]

Delete

 

[BB88]

I think you are overreacting on the D situation. Not many teams have elite shutdown D-men playing on the first pairing. Florida is glad to have Barkov though who can make it real tough for top lines and help the D tremendeously.

Offensively Yandle is getting the points and Ekblad is on his 4th 10+ goal season, most likely to get his 2nd 15 goal season. In defense of Ekblad you also have to mention that he is playing his second season vs top competition and it is his first season doing so with being fully healthy. He has improved his skating and is taking strides to improve his overall game. He's mentioned that he needs to work on his skating and passing ability. He still has the potential and is only 22.

Also Matheson has taken great strides during his sophomore season, his skating is a joy to watch and he has good offensive instincts with a great poke check defensively. He'll also keep improving at 23, soon to be 24.

McCoshen should be able to take a full role next season so they will be locked down on the LHD in Yandle-Matheson-McCoshen. Perhaps it's still in question, but I'm still very high on him, he's had good moments and some not so good moments on his rookie season this year. He has a good history and a defensive mind, a prospect high on many lists in the past and has shown NHL talent.

To me questions arise after that. Pysyk has not played as well as expected this season and his future is in question. Also Petrovic is in a similar place. Weegar is a better puck mover and skater than etiher of them, I think they should just pursue a defensive specialist who can move the puck more as the 6th then. This leaves in question what the RHD situation will be with the team, I would perhaps keep Weegar as he has improved and at least has some potential in him. Pysyk & Petrovic play a similar role but might become expendable if Florida can get a tougher defensive specialist who can PK and get rid of the puck.

As a whole the team defense has also improved a lot, it's one of the youngest defensive cores in the league with everyone but Yandle being 25 or below. It's not as bad as you make it sound.

Also Gildon is a nice project, but he's years away from being a roster player.

True contenders have those guys, Hedman in Tampa, Doughty in LA, Chara in Boston, Keith in Chicago, Letang in Pittsburgh, pre last season(they though have Crosby/Malkin/Kessell to make up for it), Subban/Josi Nashville.
Franchise D-men have a massive impact in the game and on the finals.

If Florida wants to reach that level you need to be drafting D-prospects and you'll have a great shot this year.
For being a Wild Card team you don't need that, but why would that be the goal?

Look, Florida doesn’t have a great D but if there’s one bright spot in there its freaking Ekblad. He’s carrying the Panthers D on his back. Watch more hockey before spitting out dumb comment

I've watched enough Florida games in the last few years, and Ekblad is the opposite to what you are saying with where he was drafted.
He has failed to step up as the #1D in this league, with not being able to work on his weaknesses so far in his career.

If Ekblad was what you think he is Florida wouldn't be where they are today.

 

[Depch]

Delete

 

[Benstheman]

If Florida gives up 1st+ Borgstrom for Pac it basically makes it impossible to fix their defense, which is the much bigger longterm issue than their top6.

Agreed. But the deal he was talking about is :

Pacioretty + 6-7 OA pick
for
Borgstrom + 2018 1st pick + Bjugstad/Malgin

Panthers get another top 6 forward and would probably get the second best D of the draft with the 6-7OA, which is perfect for them long term.

On the other hand, Habs get the center help the badly need + a probable mid round 1st pick to get another good player.

The more i talk about it, the more it makes sense for me.

Off course it all depend on the real interest of Panthers for Pacioretty. I doubt the actual situation is optimal but i would see Pacioretty wanting to resign there quite easily.

 

[BB88]

Agreed. But the deal he was talking about is :

Pacioretty + 6-7 OA pick
for
Borgstrom + 2018 1st pick + Bjugstad/Malgin

Panthers get another top 6 forward and would probably get the second best D of the draft with the 6-7OA, which is perfect for them long term.

On the other hand, Habs get the center help the badly need + a probable mid round 1st pick to get another good player.

The more i talk about it, the more it makes sense for me.

Off course it all depend on the real interest of Panthers for Pacioretty. I doubt the actual situation is optimal but i would see Pacioretty wanting to resign there quite easily.

That makes much more sense for Panthers but it still leaves you questioning can they re-sign Pac and that they aren't like Montreal. They can't just go and spent whatever they want every season. For those types of teams ELC's are worth more& I feel Pac is a bit too old for their core. His next contract carries a big risk.

It took years for those players to develop to those players. Give the Florida guys some time, don't write them off. I see the potential and have seen the improvement. We'll know more in a couple of years, they're still very young.

Ekblad turned 22 and so far like I said has failed to show development in his weaknessess. Which lowers the odds at him being able to fix them later. Especially fixing skating will get more difficult as he ages.
He wasn't a longterm project when he was drafted. He was NHL ready.

You have 1 D-prospect, wouldn't hurt to have 1 high end D-prospect in the system with Gildon and Ekblad& Matheson developing in the NHL. You get that D-prospect and your core could be set for 10 years. Your F core is build to contend longterm and are signed to a beauty contracts. Don't waste that.

 

[schnapshot]

Also what people seem to keep avoiding is that Panthers are not contending now, they will not pay full price for a possible 1 season rental. And how much would it help this season? Make that 20% chance to go for a 30% chance for playoffs? If even that? Not worth it.

More than one season at $4.5M per. Not a lot for a guy who's a consistent 30-goal scorer. He can help you this year and give you a solid 50-60 pts next year.

Just look at what Minny paid for 25 games of Hanzal or what the Rags paid for Staal in february 2016. And they were rentals.

The price is steep for Patch, as it should be.