Post-Game Talk: Flames @ Jets | Double-win: The Petanening.

[surixon]

Burmi will be fine. He has been playing it safe and it's important to remember with Burmi and Lowry it's not how much they score it's whether they beat their match ups or not. I think they will both be really good at shot suppression-possession and will help our team win games. They will both chip in and get points but they should be able to eat toughs IMO.

These are my thoughts as well. I don't expect a bunch of points from either but both will help this team win games.

 

[surixon]

My memory of Burmi was much better than what we have seen lately. Maybe it is just the difference between lining up on the wing vs C but he used to make some pretty nice offensive plays, particularly with Kane. Is he taking a while to re-adjust to the smaller ice? Whatever, I'm sure he is capable of better. IDK how to bring that out in him though.

It may also be the relative strength of the lineup now vs a couple of years ago. We have substantially more talent now, so his skills don't stick out as much. I haven't found his game to be that different, he's still great defensively, still strong on the puck and still at times holds it too long. To his credit I have noticed he plays a much more simplified, refined game and reads off his line mates better than I remember.

 

[Beavski24]

i have to jump in on the peluso talk sorry for grammar mistakes I'm on my phone.

1) he did his job and his team appreciates it
2) you all may hate enforcers and fighting but it is a part of hockey and the team and fans love it
3) the jets play a tough style aggressive game blue collar. having these guys thorns tony no one can come into our building and run us out .
4) blues and ducks have enforcers we are more their model than a Blackhawks or Tampa model

5) accept the fact our gm ( was an enforcer ) and our team creed is work and tough
And mainly Peluso is a jet. So stop harping on a guy cause you feel a rookie can play 4 minutes a game better. End of the day Peluso will have earned the team more fan $$ from his fights and more respect from his teammates than having any rookie come out and get smashed for 4 minutes a night we arnt Tampa bay

 

[Daximus]

i have to jump in on the peluso talk sorry for grammar mistakes I'm on my phone.

1) he did his job and his team appreciates it
2) you all may hate enforcers and fighting but it is a part of hockey and the team and fans love it
3) the jets play a tough style aggressive game blue collar. having these guys thorns tony no one can come into our building and run us out .
4) blues and ducks have enforcers we are more their model than a Blackhawks or Tampa model

5) accept the fact our gm ( was an enforcer ) and our team creed is work and tough
And mainly Peluso is a jet. So stop harping on a guy cause you feel a rookie can play 4 minutes a game better. End of the day Peluso will have earned the team more fan $$ from his fights and more respect from his teammates than having any rookie come out and get smashed for 4 minutes a night we arnt Tampa bay

This is all well and good but we will make more money getting into the playoffs. And we stand a better chance of doing so with players that aren't a complete liability on the ice aside from fighting. There's a reason the Chicago and Tampa Bay teams make it far in the playoffs over the Blues and Ducks and it's typically called depth and secondary scoring.

 

[Jeffsrig]

And were not there yet.......... not by a long shot.

 

[KingBogo]

My memory of Burmi was much better than what we have seen lately. Maybe it is just the difference between lining up on the wing vs C but he used to make some pretty nice offensive plays, particularly with Kane. Is he taking a while to re-adjust to the smaller ice? Whatever, I'm sure he is capable of better. IDK how to bring that out in him though.

I don't know my memory of Burmi is almost exactly what we have seen in the preseason. Lots of puck handling skill and can keep possession, but rarely moves the puck to where an actual scoring chance occurs. I can see Burmi quickly being pushed back to the 4th line if Petan continues to impress.

 

[allan5oh]

I think a lot of the Peluso defenders just don't realize how unimportant he actually is. What's important is he's taking a spot from someone else. That's a problem as we become a team with depth.

 

[WinnipegWinter*]

I think a lot of the Peluso defenders just don't realize how unimportant he actually is. What's important is he's taking a spot from someone else. That's a problem as we become a team with depth.

Throughout the grind of the regular season you need a feared enforcer (thorburn doesnt fill that roll.) Especially with a young team. Thats his value and IMO its needed

 

[Grind]

edit: very wrong thread.

 

[Daximus]

Throughout the grind of the regular season you need a feared enforcer (thorburn doesnt fill that roll.) Especially with a young team. Thats his value and IMO its needed

I like what Peluso does but I'd prefer if we only used him in non-divisional games. Even though some of the more heavyweight teams are in the central. Those games are the times we need to be icing our best possible hockey roster.

 

[garret9]

Throughout the grind of the regular season you need a feared enforcer (thorburn doesnt fill that roll.) Especially with a young team. Thats his value and IMO its needed

Thus far all evidence shows that teams that dress enforcers:
* tend to lose more
* tend to get injured more (could be from fights)
* tend to have negative relationship on gate revenue (likely due to losing more)

There has been great research on this on the website Habs Eyes on the Prize the past few weeks.

There's also been evidence that teams that have enforcers tend to win more with them in the press box than dressed...

 

[ps241]

Thus far all evidence shows that teams that dress enforcers:
* tend to lose more
* tend to get injured more (could be from fights)
* tend to have negative relationship on gate revenue (likely due to losing more)

There has been great research on this on the website Habs Eyes on the Prize the past few weeks.

There's also been evidence that teams that have enforcers tend to win more with than without...

Garret your last point seems to contradict the rest of your post or am I reading it wrong?

 

[garret9]

Garret your last point seems to contradict the rest of your post or am I reading it wrong?

Typo. I'm tired. I'll fix.

 

[Jet]

It is debatable Thorburn finds a NHL job if he didn't already have a contract.

I don't know. I was one of Thor's biggest critics but I have to say, from about midway through last year on, a switch flipped with this guy. I don't know if it was coaching, or... but as long as he doesn't play up in the lineup I do not mind him as a 4th liner. He can't fight but he really started forechecking better and turning over the puck a lot less.

 

[Whileee]

Thus far all evidence shows that teams that dress enforcers:
* tend to lose more
* tend to get injured more (could be from fights)
* tend to have negative relationship on gate revenue (likely due to losing more)

There has been great research on this on the website Habs Eyes on the Prize the past few weeks.

There's also been evidence that teams that have enforcers tend to win more with them in the press box than dressed...

I think enforcers are unnecessary and a negative, but I would caution that association isn't causation.

 

[Jet]

I'm going to defend Peluso here (gasp!).

I think Peluso "stole" the fight, but not because he was trying to steal the job. It was because that IS his job; a expendable sacrifice in case the fight causes injury.

I have nothing against him for doing his job. I do think his job is overrated and not necessary (albeit fun to watch), but doing is job is just doing his job.

Raffl was showing he will stand up for a teammate. Peluso moved in as the pugilistic specialist.

Meh.

I liked the whole exchange, tbh.


For the record I'd take Raffl in the line up 10 times out of 10 over Peluso (or Thor for that matter)

I start defending Peluso when absurd statements are made about him, or people start piling on. I still think the guy has some potential but it's becoming clear he is not going to get the game time to improve enough to be an everyday player.

Exactly. It is his job, he wants to keep his job, and his reaction to a far more skilled player apparently able to also do his job was telling.

I'd like to make just a couple of counters to this:

A> We DON'T know that Raffl can do that job. He dropped the gloves, which is admirable, but what if he gets pounded and Calgary gets momentum from it?

B> Can you imagine the outrage if Peluso is on the ice, lets Raffl fight, and Raffl gets concussed? Security would have to kitty bar the doors at the MTS Centre to stop the mob. Peluso saw a mismatch from an experience standpoint and stood up for his teammate -- the one thing he actually does to the satisfaction of this forum. Let's at LEAST give the kid that.

 

[SensibleGuy]

I thought Peluso was a mess in the game generally. I don't have a hate on for him and I've been one of the guys over the past couple years who has felt he was potentially a bit more than just a face-puncher, but he looked really bad here. There was a strange desperation in his jumping in on the fight too...I felt basically the same as Hnidy - it was a "WTH?" moment for me. It seems to me that the general skill level of the team has graduated up a bit and now Peluso is really on the outside looking in and he knows it. Actually, there seemed to be some desperation in his play all night - like he was trying hard to make something happen every time he got a sniff of the puck.

 

[Jet]

I agree. I thought it really stood out over the past couple of games actually. Ehlers and Petan think the game faster than anyone on the team including our (former) top guys. They seem to make the right play more often than not and it usually involves a really nifty move or pass or quick shot on net. Chef is up there as well. Probably Little is the closest to that as far as our "old guard" is concerned...

A couple of counters to this:

Seems like this type of play has been coached out of our players to some extent. Burmistrov had a lot of this in his game but now he is playing a much simpler, NHL game. Even Scheifele did it a lot more in his first games as a Jet than he does now.

The real story will be can Ehlers and Petan continue to make these high skill moves against legit NHL rosters without turning the puck over too much? If not, they will most likely be told to simplify their game and we will see a lot more of the simpler pay we see from our already legitimate stars: (Ladd, Wheeler, Little).

I would suggest that we have seen some of that really high level puck handling and movement from Math-hew already, and Byfuglien to some extent.

 

[SensibleGuy]

True enough, but the thing that I felt really was notable was those super quick little dish-offs in close to the goal. There just seemed to be a level of instantaneous decision making that often has eluded us in the past. Petan and Ehlers both seem to be able to make those split second decisions when they see a guy open or going to the net and they have the skill to actually put the puck in just the right place to make the play happen.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

i have to jump in on the peluso talk sorry for grammar mistakes I'm on my phone.

1) he did his job and his team appreciates it
2) you all may hate enforcers and fighting but it is a part of hockey and the team and fans love it
3) the jets play a tough style aggressive game blue collar. having these guys thorns tony no one can come into our building and run us out .
4) blues and ducks have enforcers we are more their model than a Blackhawks or Tampa model

5) accept the fact our gm ( was an enforcer ) and our team creed is work and tough
And mainly Peluso is a jet. So stop harping on a guy cause you feel a rookie can play 4 minutes a game better. End of the day Peluso will have earned the team more fan $$ from his fights and more respect from his teammates than having any rookie come out and get smashed for 4 minutes a night we arnt Tampa bay

And yet, arguably the best teams of the last decade (Wings, Hawks, Penguins) tend to not carry a resident helmet puncher.

 

[Jet]

I think a lot of the Peluso defenders just don't realize how unimportant he actually is. What's important is he's taking a spot from someone else. That's a problem as we become a team with depth.

Same could be said about Peluso detractors ☺

 

[KingBogo]

A couple of counters to this:

Seems like this type of play has been coached out of our players to some extent. Burmistrov had a lot of this in his game but now he is playing a much simpler, NHL game. Even Scheifele did it a lot more in his first games as a Jet than he does now.

The real story will be can Ehlers and Petan continue to make these high skill moves against legit NHL rosters without turning the puck over too much? If not, they will most likely be told to simplify their game and we will see a lot more of the simpler pay we see from our already legitimate stars: (Ladd, Wheeler, Little).

I would suggest that we have seen some of that really high level puck handling and movement from Math-hew already, and Byfuglien to some extent.

Agree that is a big part of the story. If they can they both have the chance to be stars.

But I consider stars to be: The type of guys who score in the top 20, play in every offensive situation, and consistently rank in the top 10 or so at their position. And certainly would be ranked in the top 50 players in the NHL. That is as broad as I'm willing to go in defining a player a star. I would consider players like Ladd, Little and Wheeler to be very good players, but a tier below stars. To me a big difference between the 2 tiers is the ability to consistently do something exceptionally well rather than just be good at it.

IMO the Jets 2.0 have yet to see their first true star. Buff when he is on his game comes closest, but doesn't do it consistently enough.

 

[Jet]

Agree that is a big part of the story. If they can they both have the chance to be stars.

But I consider stars to be: The type of guys who score in the top 20, play in every offensive situation, and consistently rank in the top 10 or so at their position. And certainly would be ranked in the top 50 players in the NHL. That is as broad as I'm willing to go in defining a player a star. I would consider players like Ladd, Little and Wheeler to be very good players, but a tier below stars. To me a big difference between the 2 tiers is the ability to consistently do something exceptionally well rather than just be good at it.

IMO the Jets 2.0 have yet to see their first true star. Buff when he is on his game comes closest, but doesn't do it consistently enough.

What you described to me is a 'superstar'

Buff, Little, Ladd, Wheeler, Enstrom and Perreault imo are stars

 

[KingBogo]

What you described to me is a 'superstar'

Buff, Little, Ladd, Wheeler, Enstrom and Perreault imo are stars

It is probably just semantics, but I reserve the term superstar for the top 2-3 players at a position at any given time. At tops the top 10 or so players in the league. The type of players fans buy tickets to see and are destined for the hall of fame at the end of their careers. To me stars are the next level. But still a limited membership. Guys who can carry teams when needed and have unique skill sets that set them apart. IMO no one on the Jets rises to that level. But Buff (when he is on) comes closest.

 

[RECCE]

Thus far all evidence shows that teams that dress enforcers:
* tend to lose more
* tend to get injured more (could be from fights)
* tend to have negative relationship on gate revenue (likely due to losing more)

There has been great research on this on the website Habs Eyes on the Prize the past few weeks.

There's also been evidence that teams that have enforcers tend to win more with them in the press box than dressed...

Some links to that statistical analysis please?