Post-Game Talk: Flames 4, Pens 3 (SO) - Chris 'Old Yeller' Kunitz Gets a Point out of the Boys

[Tender Rip]

It's exceptionally easy to blame Bones and Kunitz, because they were the problem.

TR, you're expecting Kessel to be something he isn't.

He needs a puck hound on his line. Always has. That's why he worked so gloriously with Hagelin. By putting Kunitz on the other wing, you're forcing Kessel to assume a role he was never meant to have.

Just don't be surprised when Kessel miraculously comes back to life when something approximating a hockey player is put on his left wing.

You're being way too lenient.

It's one thing that he is not a big battles guy, but he has to provide some flair, speed, one on one ability and create his own shot on occasion.
There is no justification for Sheary and Guentzel looking like utterly superior hockey players compared to him.

NB: Hagelin has been with him a lot this season and he plays the same no matter where you put him. With Hags it is never about effort. It's time to stop the excuses for Phil. He SUCKS 5 on 5. With or without Bones/Kunitz.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You're being way too lenient.

It's one thing that he is not a big battles guy, but he has to provide some flair, speed, one on one ability and create his own shot on occasion.
There is no justification for Sheary and Guentzel looking like utterly superior hockey players compared to him.

NB: Hagelin has been with him a lot this season and he plays the same no matter where you put him. With Hags it is never about effort. It's time to stop the excuses for Phil. He SUCKS 5 on 5. With or without Bones/Kunitz.

No kidding! They're completely different hockey players!

Just watch and see how things change when Kunitz is removed. That's all I can say. Happens every ****ing time, so maybe the next time people will finally get it.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Honestly I think the only difference with Kessel is he's not getting any separation to snap a shot on goal coming down the right wing. Other than that it's Kessel for better or worse. Unless he's scoring with that laser shot of his, he doesn't look that pretty even when amassing a decent amount of points, and he's probably not stickhandling around anyone.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

His passing is excellent, which becomes readily apparent when someone digs out the puck for him and there's someone else on the ice worth passing to. That obviously doesn't work when Kunitz or Bonino is on the ice, because that would force Kessel's other linemate to be in two places at once.

 

[UnrealMachine]

This team is just so frustrating. Murray comes off of a shutout win and is benched? They've said Murray is the #1 goalie, treat him that way. The pens will alienate Murray and he will want to be traded and we will be stuck with Fleury.

You don't understand. JR had a talk with Fleury a couple weeks ago and came to the plot-twisting conclusion that Fleury wants to play!

Also, it was important to show the Flames and their fans what a huge mistake it was for them not to trade the Pens #6OA for Fleury.

 

[Crosbyfan]

I dunno about that.... Did you see that time when the coin landed on its edge!!!! I was on the edge of my seat

Sorry OG. I remember you thinking that. You were practically passed out. From your horizontal position having fallen off the edge of your seat it only looked like it was on edge. It was heads.

Good night of drinking though...

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Same posts were made last year about Phil.

And Kunitz kills every line he's on, I don't see Geno scoring at ES now either. As soon as Kunitz is gone, that line will start to score at ES again.

 

[SEALBound]

Dumoulin-Schultz
Cole-Rudwedel
Hainsey-Gaunce

Wow.

 

[XanderCrews34]

Dumoulin-Schultz
Cole-Rudwedel
Hainsey-Gaunce

Wow.

Profit?

 

[Tender Rip]

No kidding! They're completely different hockey players!

Just watch and see how things change when Kunitz is removed. That's all I can say. Happens every ****ing time, so maybe the next time people will finally get it.

You misunderstand me.

You argued that he needs a puck hound and Kunitz can't be that. Fair enough - Hagelin IS that, no matter which line he is on, and Phil was no different.
No effort is no effort. Phil doesn't compete. We know he can compete, but he isn't. Now its the middle of March with the 1st seed on the line. What could be stomached from him before Christmas or during the Dog Days of January.... no more. Compete. Push the D-back, forecheck, support the puck.
Even when Jokinen or whoever was the wrong third wheel for Malkin you'd never see Neal be as useless as Kessel is now. And this is with Malkin healthy and playing REALLY well.


NB: Whatever was said to Bonino after playing 8 minutes that game... he is transformed into a really useful player again. When Kunitz has been put on 4th and PK detail he sees lesser QOC, sure, but he also battles and contributes. I want accountability also when it is Phil. Hotdog needs a real talking to.

 

[Mr. T]

Profit?

Vomit?

 

[Fordy]

not sure how you can deny that phil played dramatically different when hmk was together

 

[Tender Rip]

Same posts were made last year about Phil.

And Kunitz kills every line he's on, I don't see Geno scoring at ES now either. As soon as Kunitz is gone, that line will start to score at ES again.

You dont see Geno scoring ES? Tampa? Winnipeg? Your memory holds a grand total of 3 games - in which Geno has singlehandedly created lots of chances despite his linemates "best" efforts? Geno is playing great hockey.

 

[Tender Rip]

not sure how you can deny that phil played dramatically different when hmk was together

LAST season - where they were awesome. Sure. Kessel drove offense. He made plays that created chances. He was harassing D-men with his speed.
They've played together alot this season also, but while we scope goated Bones (don't get me wrong, he was crap until s few games ago), Kessel's lack of compete has been mostly accepted because of PP points. Bones or Malkin he plays the same lazy game, with the latter he just gets to figure in on the score sheet more. But he isn't driving anything.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

With how some of these call ups and fill ins have been playing, assume everyone is healthy and back, what would be your playoff lines and defensive pairings right now?

Sheary – Sid – Hornqvist/Guentzel
Hagelin/Guentzel - Geno – Rust/Kessel
Guentzel/Hagelin – Bonino/Cullen – Kessel/Rust/Hornqvist
Wilson/Kunitz – Cullen/Bonino - Kuhnackle/Wilson

A few constants here:
- Sheary with Sid
- Hornqvist not with Geno but in the top 9
- Kunitz on the 4th - probably should be higher as a priority - or out (unrealistic)
- With Sheary seeming to get Sid going, make the 2nd line the top priority - shuffle

around any of the mentioned wingers for the best fit for Geno, even if that means given up this "balance" unicorn Sullivan seems to be clinging to. Getting Geno in dominant mode is the team's best chance of success, especially with HBK falling back to earth.​

Dumo-Letang
Cole-Schultz
Hainsey-Daley

Maatta and Streit could potentially be filling in for anyone struggling.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

+ The Fellowship
- Kunitz in the top 6

Hurry back, Cullen and Rust.

 

[hooverdam]

LAST season - where they were awesome. Sure. Kessel drove offense. He made plays that created chances. He was harassing D-men with his speed.
They've played together alot this season also, but while we scope goated Bones (don't get me wrong, he was crap until s few games ago), Kessel's lack of compete has been mostly accepted because of PP points. Bones or Malkin he plays the same lazy game, with the latter he just gets to figure in on the score sheet more. But he isn't driving anything.

There are statistics that say you are wrong. Multiple people can use eye tests to tell you you are wrong. But nothing is going to convince you because you've made up your mind that this is what Kessel is right now.

And you've made similar comments about him in the past when he wasn't necessarily "slumping" like he is now, so I think you made up your mind about him a long time ago.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

LAST season - where they were awesome. Sure. Kessel drove offense. He made plays that created chances. He was harassing D-men with his speed.
They've played together alot this season also, but while we scope goated Bones (don't get me wrong, he was crap until s few games ago), Kessel's lack of compete has been mostly accepted because of PP points. Bones or Malkin he plays the same lazy game, with the latter he just gets to figure in on the score sheet more. But he isn't driving anything.

I will say that Kessel was at this best not necessarily because of HBK in general, but when he was put with someone (Hagelin) that could skate with him/force him to skate with them. Not that Geno can't but he's just more of a slashing, east-west player a lot of the time.

That line worked because of a combination of the above and Hagelin/Bonino finding ways to score and make it work amongst the three of them. Now Hags hasn't skated like his did last year and Bonino is just back to being Bonino. Obviously the coaching changed did wonders, but the most important ingredient to me was the mix of Hags and Kessel pushing the pace while Bonino kept up but didn't necessarily get in the way. That was the essence of what got him to the top of his capabilities.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You misunderstand me.

You argued that he needs a puck hound and Kunitz can't be that. Fair enough - Hagelin IS that, no matter which line he is on, and Phil was no different.
No effort is no effort. Phil doesn't compete. We know he can compete, but he isn't. Now its the middle of March with the 1st seed on the line. What could be stomached from him before Christmas or during the Dog Days of January.... no more. Compete. Push the D-back, forecheck, support the puck.
Even when Jokinen or whoever was the wrong third wheel for Malkin you'd never see Neal be as useless as Kessel is now. And this is with Malkin healthy and playing REALLY well.


NB: Whatever was said to Bonino after playing 8 minutes that game... he is transformed into a really useful player again. When Kunitz has been put on 4th and PK detail he sees lesser QOC, sure, but he also battles and contributes. I want accountability also when it is Phil. Hotdog needs a real talking to.

Did we not just finish watching Kunitz ruin Crosby and Guentzel, two players who look absolutely dynamic now that he's gone? Calling out players on Kunitz's line ignores very convincing evidence that he makes every line (except the 4th) he plays on look like crap, no matter how good the other two players are.

I have no idea why anyone would expect Kessel - a gifted but flawed player even at the best of times - to transcend his circumstances when Crosby couldn't even do it.

 

[Tender Rip]

There are statistics that say you are wrong. Multiple people can use eye tests to tell you you are wrong. But nothing is going to convince you because you've made up your mind that this is what Kessel is right now.

And you've made similar comments about him in the past when he wasn't necessarily "slumping" like he is now, so I think you made up your mind about him a long time ago.

I am not aware of any statistics tracking compete?
Please share what you believe to be saying I am wrong.

But it is true that I have been saying that Kessel is not really trying for most of the season. Whether he figures on the score sheet or not, I have seen a decidedly disappointing player 5 on 5. No matter his line mates.

 

[hagelin1381]

Honestly, as long as Kessel is able to turn it up a notch in the postseason like he has been for his whole career, I don't care much about him dogging it during the regular season.. Will he? Not sure, but I would think his effort level would rise come playoff time.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Did we not just finish watching Kunitz ruin Crosby and Guentzel, two players who look absolutely dynamic now that he's gone? Calling out players on Kunitz's line ignores very convincing evidence that he makes every line (except the 4th) he plays on look like crap, no matter how good the other two players are.

I have no idea why anyone would expect Kessel - a gifted but flawed player even at the best of times - to transcend his circumstances when Crosby couldn't even do it.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

It's true! It's true! He's soooo lame!

 

[Fordy]

i am talking only about this year. knowing the kind of player kessel is, knowing the date on the calendar when this line was together, i find his performance on the hmk line completely satisfactory

 

[Shady Machine]

Scott Wilson is more effective at producing points than Chris Kunitz. So what does that say about the latter?



No, until then we're giving points away because we're deliberately ruining a scoring line when we don't have to.

We already put a huge dent in Crosby's Art Ross chances (and gave points away in the standings) by having that slug on his LW for way too long based on dubious arguments against the kids. There's no argument for keeping Kunitz where he is.

NONE.

You are making the assumption that Scott Wilson, marginally more effective than Kunitz, makes a significant difference to Geno's line to the effect of earning more points in the standings. Sure we can test that theory, but I don't know why you are creating conclusions on something you really don't know the answer to.