Proposal: FLA - COL

[Echo Roku]

OTT and VAN would be the two likely trade targets for FLA if moving Reimer.

This article here from February suggests VAN would be open to taking a cap dump or two to secure more picks in their rebuild.
AP's ELC ends in 2020-2021 so Reimer's deal would end that year.

Look at some of those offers in the article. Only players like Backes or Dubinsky enter the 1st round pick category
As for wildcard pick comment, 80% of 1st rounders become NHL players of some sort, while 44% of 2nd rounders and 30% of 3rd rounders do as well. The dropoff happens after the 3rd round but guys like Trocheck, Point, Pesce and Guentzel come to mind right off the bat for gems in that 3rd round. 2nd rounders as of late is quite the long list. Those percentages listed above are from this article here

I look to the Callahan and Sekera deals which are similar to what I'm offering, they are now essentially cap dump players who would be a bottom 6 or bottom pairing D now. Reimer can still be a backup in limited role or play in the AHL. Reimer is owed a lot less than Sekera and with a million retention, would be cheaper than Cally but has the extra year to take.

Yep, two teams half the league want to dump a cap dump on. Plus rumors that the Canucks want to push to be competitive sooner over later certainly make them more likely to be like other teams with cap space. Where they only really bother if you're offering something that makes them feel they can get a contributor.

And your argument on the nhl player dropoff is weak. Teams aren't looking for any given player that can pass the relatively low bar of playing in the NHL. They want impact players. The only reason to trade for those picks is the chance they can make picks and hope that they turn into impact players instead of plugs.

Hence why it so much more motivating for a team to involve a notable piece. See Colorado and Washington last year. They traded for Grubauer... their current starting goaltender... for just a 2nd and a cap dump. They did it because they got the player they wanted, not because they wanted to load up on draft picks.

Teams will take offers that involve them doing something like getting an impact player back and trading up from a 2nd or a lower 1st round much more seriously. Because it gives them a much better chance of adding a real impact player. Because that's what they want. Taking pot shots to hope and pray in the 2nd and 3rd rounds is the last thing any of them want from weaponizing their cap space. Teams would much more prefer to give up an asset, but use the cap dump's negative value to get an upgrade back.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Yep, two teams half the league want to dump a cap dump on. Plus rumors that the Canucks want to push to be competitive sooner over later certainly make them more likely to be like other teams with cap space. Where they only really bother if you're offering something that makes them feel they can get a contributor.

And your argument on the nhl player dropoff is weak. Teams aren't looking for any given player that can pass the relatively low bar of playing in the NHL. They want impact players. The only reason to trade for those picks is the chance they can make picks and hope that they turn into impact players instead of plugs.

Hence why it so much more motivating for a team to involve a notable piece. See Colorado and Washington last year. They traded for Grubauer... their current starting goaltender... for just a 2nd and a cap dump. They did it because they got the player they wanted, not because they wanted to load up on draft picks.

Teams will take offers that involve them doing something like getting an impact player back and trading up from a 2nd or a lower 1st round much more seriously. Because it gives them a much better chance of adding a real impact player. Because that's what they want. Taking pot shots to hope and pray in the 2nd and 3rd rounds is the last thing any of them want from weaponizing their cap space.

VAN is hosting the draft so yes they will want more picks to possibly package with an expendable player to aquire another 1st round pick. They only own two additional picks this year and they're both 6th rounders.
As for OTT, they have two 2019 2nd's and three 2020 2nd's so accumulating another 2nd would allow them to also package two of those 2nd's + expendable player to move up into the 1st.
I didn't say half the teams would accept Reimer but provided two teams

The dropoff argument isn't weak, those numbers are from 2000-2009 as well, so those numbers have probably increased as the talent is getting better and better which increases their value.
You're arguing that the Grubauer trade is fine because of a team need but rebuilding teams don't want picks which are of need?

Your last paragraph just furthers my point of rebuilding teams wanting more picks to move up in the draft.

 

[Echo Roku]

VAN is hosting the draft so yes they will want more picks to possibly package with an expendable player to aquire another 1st round pick. They only own two additional picks this year and they're both 6th rounders.
As for OTT, they have two 2019 2nd's and three 2020 2nd's so accumulating another 2nd would allow them to also package two of those 2nd's + expendable player to move up into the 1st.
I didn't say half the teams would accept Reimer but provided two teams

The dropoff argument isn't weak, those numbers are from 2000-2009 as well, so those numbers have probably increased as the talent is getting better and better.
You're arguing that the Grubauer trade is fine because of a team need but rebuilding teams don't want picks which are of need?

Your last paragraph just furthers my point of rebuilding teams wanting more picks to move up in the draft.

Now you're just speculating out of nowhere like they're playing NHL 19 now.

Draft location doesn't matter. Arbitrarily packaging picks together doesn't suddenly get anyone to trade their first round pick. The reason a team will give up their first is if there is something they actually need. Like say... to unload a cap dump to sign players (hello Florida). They're not going to drop down for a variety of random, low percentage for impact player picks (and again, impact player)

And I said half of teams wanted to dump their cap on those two teams (for the third time).

Dropoff argument is incredibly weak. Do you have anything to retort my point about teams wanting impact players, not plugs? Grubauer is an IMPACT PLAYER. He's not some player that "can play in the NHL" like your under 50% in the 2nd round number has shown. The Avs actively gave up a 2nd round pick still to make sure they could get him.

Honestly you feel like you're getting to a point that you just hear what you want to hear.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Now you're just speculating out of nowhere like they're playing NHL 19 now.

Draft location doesn't matter. Arbitrarily packaging picks together doesn't suddenly get anyone to trade their first round pick. The reason a team will give up their first is if there is something they actually need. Like say... to unload a cap dump to sign players (hello Florida). They're not going to drop down for a variety of random, low percentage for impact player picks (and again, impact player)

And I said half of teams wanted to dump their cap on those two teams (for the third time).

Dropoff argument is incredibly weak. Do you have anything to retort my point about teams wanting impact players, not plugs? Grubauer is an IMPACT PLAYER. He's not some player that "can play in the NHL" like your under 50% in the 2nd round number has shown. The Avs actively gave up a 2nd round pick still to make sure they could get him.

Honestly you feel like you're getting to a point that you just hear what you want to hear.

GM's have shown a trend to trade their late 1sts to secure more picks or package multiple 2nd rounders/picks for a player of need, here

Calgary traded a first + two 2nds for Hamonic a couple years ago no?
Flames have literally traded their 2nd rounder for a player of need every year since 2003. here
So where's your argument 2nd rounders aren't valuable?

Dubas just traded down from 25th to 29th + 76th to draft Sandin.
What are you trying to argue here? Anything you've argued, I've shown you data to back my point.

Grubauer was a 4th round pick which increased his value after 3-4 years in the league...
COL needed a 1b option and traded for it.
You're saying OTT or VAN don't want more picks to either draft or package in a deal for a player of need?

 

[Echo Roku]

GM's have shown a trend to trade their late 1sts to secure more picks or package multiple 2nd rounders/picks for a player of need, here

Calgary traded two 2nds for Hamonic a couple years ago no?
Dubas just traded down from 25th to 29th + 76th to draft Sandin.
What are you trying to argue here? Anything you've argued, I've shown you data to back my point.

Grubauer was a 4th round pick which increased his value after 3-4 years in the league...
COL needed a 1b option and traded for it.
You're saying OTT or VAN don't want more picks to either draft or package in a deal for a player of need?

Goodness this is getting dumb.

You notice how you have literally no examples of a team trading out of the first round for a package of non-1st round picks?

And Grubauer originally being a 4th rounder means literally nothing. The Avs traded for an impact player. Not something they could "flip" later. And the Hamonic trade was for a 1st and 2 2nds, fyi

Teams want impact players. They do not want to stockpile on plugs, hoping and praying for maybe one to excel more. You notice how your literal entire premise for trading for other picks is ultimately to flip them to another team? Your own argument isn't even that Vancouver or whoever wants the picks, just that you think THEY might be able to flip them somewhere else. Who would give up their first for that? Literally none of your examples involve a trade that isn't centered around getting an impact player for 1st rounders+ (or a strategic few spots trade down like Dubas, with both picks being late first round and irrelevant as an example here)

You're trying to pretend the real world is NHL 19

Calgary traded two 2nds for Hamonic a couple years ago no?
Dubas just traded down from 25th to 29th + 76th to draft Sandin.
What are you trying to argue here? Anything you've argued, I've shown you data to back my point.

And I really, really hope you don't honestly believe this. You've provided two "data points". One on the percent chances on playing at all in the NHL (which is 100% irrelevant because teams aren't aiming for plugs, they want impact players... oh and you humorously abandoned this argument attempt), and actively failing to provide "data" on the idea that NHL 19 trades are realistic

 

[Laus723]

Goodness this is getting dumb.

You notice how you have literally no examples of a team trading out of the first round for a package of non-1st round picks?

And Grubauer originally being a 4th rounder means literally nothing. The Avs traded for an impact player. Not something they could "flip" later. And the Hamonic trade was for a 1st and 2 2nds, fyi

Teams want impact players. They do not want to stockpile on plugs, hoping and praying for maybe one to excel more. You notice how your literal entire premise for trading for other picks is ultimately to flip them to another team? Your own argument isn't even that Vancouver or whoever wants the picks, just that you think THEY might be able to flip them somewhere else. Who would give up their first for that? Literally none of your examples involve a trade that isn't centered around getting an impact player for 1st rounders+ (or a strategic few spots trade down like Dubas, with both picks being late first round and irrelevant as an example here)

You're trying to pretend the real world is NHL 19


And I really, really hope you don't honestly believe this. You've provided two "data points". One on the percent chances on playing at all in the NHL (which is 100% irrelevant because teams aren't aiming for plugs, they want impact players... oh and you humorously abandoned this argument attempt), and actively failing to provide "data" on the idea that NHL 19 trades are realistic

You’ve kinda got an attitude.

Other option is the Cats send Reimer to A for a year and have a cheaper buyout next year. Don’t have to do anything with our picks this year or retain. Gotta smarmy retort for that?

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Goodness this is getting dumb.

You notice how you have literally no examples of a team trading out of the first round for a package of non-1st round picks?

And Grubauer originally being a 4th rounder means literally nothing. The Avs traded for an impact player. Not something they could "flip" later. And the Hamonic trade was for a 1st and 2 2nds, fyi

Teams want impact players. They do not want to stockpile on plugs, hoping and praying for maybe one to excel more. You notice how your literal entire premise for trading for other picks is ultimately to flip them to another team? Your own argument isn't even that Vancouver or whoever wants the picks, just that you think THEY might be able to flip them somewhere else. Who would give up their first for that? Literally none of your examples involve a trade that isn't centered around getting an impact player for 1st rounders+ (or a strategic few spots trade down like Dubas, with both picks being late first round and irrelevant as an example here)

You're trying to pretend the real world is NHL 19


And I really, really hope you don't honestly believe this. You've provided two "data points". One on the percent chances on playing at all in the NHL (which is 100% irrelevant because teams aren't aiming for plugs, they want impact players... oh and you humorously abandoned this argument attempt), and actively failing to provide "data" on the idea that NHL 19 trades are realistic

Your original argument was 2nd rounders are a small sweetener, I've provided many articles showing how important 2nd round picks are. You started to shift the argument into drafting impact players over plugs.
Have you seen what has been drafted in the 2nd round lately? Do you want the list of plugs in the 2nd round of the last 5 years alone?

If you read the article, then you'd see when CGY did draft a 2nd rounder, they have McDonald, Andersson, Kylington, Dube and Parsons. Who are all these plugs you speak of in the 2nd round?

I certainly don't consider Heponiemi a plug prospect.

 

[Echo Roku]

You’ve kinda got an attitude.

Other option is the Cats send Reimer to A for a year and have a cheaper buyout next year. Don’t have to do anything with our picks this year or retain. Gotta smarmy retort for that?

Hey, its not stupid like the other guy's argument. I couldn't care less. I'm just losing my patience with his ridiculous argument.

Your original argument was 2nd rounders are a small sweetener, I've provided many articles showing how important 2nd round picks are. You started to shift the argument into drafting impact players over plugs.
Have you seen what has been drafted in the 2nd round lately? Do you want the list of plugs in the 2nd round of the last 5 years alone?

If you read the article, then you'd see when CGY did draft a 2nd rounder, they have McDonald, Andersson, Kylington, Dube and Parsons. Who are all these plugs you speak of in the 2nd round?

I certainly don't consider Heponiemi a plug prospect.

My original argument is that chances of making a 2nd rounder turn into an impact player are small. Very small. As in, no one is going to bother taking on the cap unless the trade is centered around a piece they think will result in an impact player. 2nd rounders are a wildcard in being that. A shot in the dark.

You have done nothing to demonstrate otherwise. You even actually changed your entire argument into the idea that teams want the picks so they can package them and flip them.

Again, you notice how you have not found a single 1st rounder trade or cap dump trade that did not have an impact player as the core of its negotiations? Teams don't bother unless there is a notable piece they particularly want involved. 2nd rounders are not those. They're add ons to even out value. If a trade doesn't have a specific piece a team wants coming back (cap space, 1st rounder, promising prospect, impact space), then these trades don't even get off the ground. Teams don't do these for the sake of doing them.

AGAIN, this isn't NHL 19. The chances of a team even bothering for the sake of a 2nd round pick is low. They have so many other avenues to take with a lot more teams desperate to offload cap, too

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Hey, its not stupid like the other guy's argument. I couldn't care less. I'm just losing my patience with his ridiculous argument.


My original argument is that chances of making a 2nd rounder turn into an impact player are small. Very small. As in, no one is going to bother taking on the cap unless the trade is centered around a piece they think will result in an impact player. 2nd rounders are a wildcard in being that. A shot in the dark.

You have done nothing to demonstrate otherwise. You even actually changed your entire argument into the idea that teams want the picks so they can package them and flip them.

Again, you notice how you have not found a single 1st rounder trade or cap dump trade that did not have an impact player as the core of its negotiations? Teams don't bother unless there is a notable piece they particularly want involved. 2nd rounders are not those. They're add ons to even out value. If a trade doesn't have a specific piece a team wants coming back (cap space, 1st rounder, promising prospect, impact space), then these trades don't even get off the ground. Teams don't do these for the sake of doing them.

AGAIN, this isn't NHL 19

You're right, 2nd rounders are basically worthless.
Barely any good impact players outside the 1st round.
Scouting must be such an easy job, only have to focus on your first round pick every year unless you've traded it with that worthless 2nd rounder for a player of need, which also never happens...

 

[Echo Roku]

You're right, 2nd rounders are basically worthless.
Barely any good impact players outside the 1st round.
Scouting must be such an easy job, only have to focus on your first round pick every year unless you've traded it with that worthless 2nd rounder for a player of need, which also never happens...

Lovely strawman argument

 

[FrolikFan67]

Drop 3 spots to dump Reimer? Sure why not, there’s plenty of players that I’d want thatd also be at 16

 

[avsfan09]

You're right, 2nd rounders are basically worthless.
Barely any good impact players outside the 1st round.
Scouting must be such an easy job, only have to focus on your first round pick every year unless you've traded it with that worthless 2nd rounder for a player of need, which also never happens...

I think he's saying that a 2nd rounder is worthless for a team taking on a cap dump that could hinder our team. Sure 2nd rounders are nice to have for many reasons. But the odds are still heavily stacked against them.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Those are likely the players we are targeting as well, so trading down wouldn't make sense for us

That's probably true and probably part of why we wont see this trade happen. On paper it makes some sense but the Avs and Panthers are very likely to be targetting the same type of player(Dmen) at #16 and so Florida wouldn't want to trade down with us.

Eh, I think he's high on those guys, but Avs don't likely trade up to grab a defenseman.

Completely disagree. Assuming they go with a forward at #4 The entire point of moving up would be to get a Dman they are very high on after nabbing a forward already at the top of the draft.


The middle of this years 1st round is much stronger for Dmen then it is forwards. It would be dumb to trade up for a forward at #13 when the quality drop off from a Newhook/Krebs/Kaliyev that we could get at #13 is almost nothing compared to a Tomasino/Brink/Lavoie level at #16.

Where as on the flip side you get a Broberg or a Seider at 13 you're getting an opportunity to draft a potential top pairing Defender. Neither of which I expect to ever slide to 16 when you look at the needs of teams drafting from 10-15.

 

[Echo Roku]

Completely disagree. Assuming they go with a forward at #4 The entire point of moving up would be to get a Dman they are very high on after nabbing a forward already at the top of the draft.


The middle of this years 1st round is much stronger for Dmen then it is forwards. It would be dumb to trade up for a forward at #13 when the quality drop off from a Newhook/Krebs/Kaliyev that we could get at #13 is almost nothing compared to a Tomasino/Brink/Lavoie level at #16.

Where as on the flip side you get a Broberg or a Seider at 13 you're getting an opportunity to draft a potential top pairing Defender. Neither of which I expect to ever slide to 16 when you look at the needs of teams drafting from 10-15.

I just don't think the Avs would pay to move up for a defensemen when they're fairly strong on that front in terms of prospects and young talent. I can see them taking one, but not pay to move up.

 

[JoemAvs]

That's probably true and probably part of why we wont see this trade happen. On paper it makes some sense but the Avs and Panthers are very likely to be targetting the same type of player(Dmen) at #16 and so Florida wouldn't want to trade down with us.



Completely disagree. Assuming they go with a forward at #4 The entire point of moving up would be to get a Dman they are very high on after nabbing a forward already at the top of the draft.


The middle of this years 1st round is much stronger for Dmen then it is forwards. It would be dumb to trade up for a forward at #13 when the quality drop off from a Newhook/Krebs/Kaliyev that we could get at #13 is almost nothing compared to a Tomasino/Brink/Lavoie level at #16.

Where as on the flip side you get a Broberg or a Seider at 13 you're getting an opportunity to draft a potential top pairing Defender. Neither of which I expect to ever slide to 16 when you look at the needs of teams drafting from 10-15.

As usual you are wrong. This whole thread was made with the intention to snag one of Cozens/Newhook/Krebs/Podkolzin/Caufield (to a lesser extent because I am not a huge fan but still).
And there is a very good chance that one of these guys drops to #13 and I think these guys hold way, way more value than a Brink or Tomasino.
I love Seider and wouldn't mind picking him up but that is not the intention behind moving up.
Its to snag one of the lesser 2nd tier forwards (that tier should run out just prior to #16) in this draft with our second 1st. Thats why it makes sense for us to move up to #13 and for Florida to move down to #16 considering that they probably are more interested in the second tier of Ds that should last longer than #16.
I expect Seider to be gone at #13 anyways and I rate the rest of the 2nd tier of Ds way below the 2nd tier of Fs in this draft. Much rather walk out with a Newhook than a Broberg personally.


The Avs should not be married at all to the concept of leaving the draft with one of each. That logic of going into the draft focussing on a certain position is stupid. Especially with a mid-teens pick. That brought us Kaut over Smith or Miller and I still hate that.

They should look to maximize the return on these picks. It also would make taking Byram at #4 more plausible given that I personally don't see a big difference between a Zegras (not a huge fan. Hope we don't end up with him at #4) and a Newhook (would love to land him with our 2nd 1st).

 

[Mogo]

Reimer + 3rd for 5th

 

[JoemAvs]

Reimer + 3rd for 5th

Thats godawful. Good luck finding a taker there.

Realistically you are asking your owner to pony up 6.8M in cash for the privilege of improving your AHL goaltending. Uber rich people usually don't like to waste money.
Thats why probably most teams that are potentially in a position to be able to afford taking on that contract will hesitate doing so unless they get something tangible (like a Teravainen or a higher draft pick) they can point to in return.
I don't think an owner would be all too happy with doing it for a future mid 2nd rounder.
I am 100% sure they won't do it for the benefit of swapping a 5th for a 3rd.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I just don't think the Avs would pay to move up for a defensemen when they're fairly strong on that front in terms of prospects and young talent. I can see them taking one, but not pay to move up.

We're not actually strong on the back end though. When Makar graduates this year our best prospect becomes a Defenseman who missed his entire 20 year old season due to a concussion, and a now 22 year old Dman who has yet to even sniff the NHL.


We still need defensive depth and especially if they get Turcotte or Zegras at #4 you have to target Dmen at #16 or move up to try and get one at #13. The only exception IMO is if a higher end forward falls to #13 like Podkolzin or Krebs. Otherwise you have to take Broberg or Seider if we move up and if they're already off the board(Good chance of this) then just dont move up and maybe even look at moving down to ~20 to pick up another 2nd round pick.

 

[Echo Roku]

We're not actually strong on the back end though. When Makar graduates this year our best prospect becomes a Defenseman who missed his entire 20 year old season due to a concussion, and a now 22 year old Dman who has yet to even sniff the NHL.


We still need defensive depth and especially if they get Turcotte or Zegras at #4 you have to target Dmen at #16 or move up to try and get one at #13. The only exception IMO is if a higher end forward falls to #13 like Podkolzin or Krebs. Otherwise you have to take Broberg or Seider if we move up and if they're already off the board(Good chance of this) then just dont move up and maybe even look at moving down to ~20 to pick up another 2nd round pick.

Makar graduating or not doesn't mean much. The team still has 3 defenseman at age 24 or younger that are setup to be Top 4 defensemen. Add to that you still have several promising prospects that could step up and take NHL minutes in the future even as depth + the veterans that are largely not going anywhere anytime soon and you really do not have a need to pay to move up to grab a defenseman.

Its just not justified to force that issue now.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Makar graduating or not doesn't mean much. The team still has 3 defenseman at age 24 or younger that are setup to be Top 4 defensemen. Add to that you still have several promising prospects that could step up and take NHL minutes in the future even as depth + the veterans that are largely not going anywhere anytime soon and you really do not have a need to pay to move up to grab a defenseman.

Its just not justified to force that issue now.

That shit doesn't matter though. What happens if EJ continues his downward spiral, and Barrie doesn't sign with us and gets traded or walks away(Scary thought to even think about tbh), and Girard doesn't take a next step forward?


The only real surefire thing we have right now is Makar long term. There's certainly still a tonne of question marks around Z and Barrie and the future they have here. And even Girard isn't a slam dunk to be a future Top 4 guy either, though I'd be surprised if he doesn't at least become a consistent #3/4 Dman but it is possible that he doesn't get to that level. And EJ is already well on his way to being an overpaid bottom pairing PK specialist. Hell even Makar could top out as just a middle pairing guy yet.


The point is things look pretty good for us right now on the back end no question, but we could absolutely use more depth. Especially considering there's an argument to be made that our forwards actually look better despite the clear need for a 2C. We have an entire top line under 26 years old and all 3 of them went PPG+ last year. That's already a tonne more than most other teams can say. Beyond that we do have a couple young guys who still have some solid upside. We still have Kaut in the system who has future 2nd liner written all over him. And we're also assuming that at #4 we nab Turcotte or Zegras here as well adding another high end piece to the puzzle. And especially with the uncertainty around Timmins I think this team really could use another high end Defense prospect.


Ultimately I am a BPA guy regardless of position so if that means taking two forward I dont have any issue with it. But to me the big reason to move up is to get one of those Dmen that are likely falling a tad. Since I think both Broberg and Seider are ~Top 10 level talents I believe if one of them is available at #13 you look at moving up to get them. I also think the middle section of this years draft in general is much stronger defensively than it is at forward which is why I'd be pushing for a Dman at #16 instead anyway. I much prefer Broberg/Seider/York/Heinola/Harley/Soderstrom over Krebs/Newhook/Brink/Tomasino/Podkolzin/Lavoie

 

[Echo Roku]

That **** doesn't matter though. What happens if EJ continues his downward spiral, and Barrie doesn't sign with us and gets traded or walks away(Scary thought to even think about tbh), and Girard doesn't take a next step forward?


The only real surefire thing we have right now is Makar long term. There's certainly still a tonne of question marks around Z and Barrie and the future they have here. And even Girard isn't a slam dunk to be a future Top 4 guy either, though I'd be surprised if he doesn't at least become a consistent #3/4 Dman but it is possible that he doesn't get to that level. And EJ is already well on his way to being an overpaid bottom pairing PK specialist. Hell even Makar could top out as just a middle pairing guy yet.


The point is things look pretty good for us right now on the back end no question, but we could absolutely use more depth. Especially considering there's an argument to be made that our forwards actually look better despite the clear need for a 2C. We have an entire top line under 26 years old and all 3 of them went PPG+ last year. That's already a tonne more than most other teams can say. Beyond that we do have a couple young guys who still have some solid upside. We still have Kaut in the system who has future 2nd liner written all over him. And we're also assuming that at #4 we nab Turcotte or Zegras here as well adding another high end piece to the puzzle. And especially with the uncertainty around Timmins I think this team really could use another high end Defense prospect.


Ultimately I am a BPA guy regardless of position so if that means taking two forward I dont have any issue with it. But to me the big reason to move up is to get one of those Dmen that are likely falling a tad. Since I think both Broberg and Seider are ~Top 10 level talents I believe if one of them is available at #13 you look at moving up to get them. I also think the middle section of this years draft in general is much stronger defensively than it is at forward which is why I'd be pushing for a Dman at #16 instead anyway. I much prefer Broberg/Seider/York/Heinola/Harley/Soderstrom over Krebs/Newhook/Brink/Tomasino/Podkolzin/Lavoie

You can make the "what if everything goes wrong" argument for every position on the team, you know?

Avs are set up pretty well at D. Its not so well they should avoid drafting defensemen in high rounds, but it just seems ludicrous to think it justifies paying to jump up a few spots. There are much, much bigger needs to use those assets on, if anything.

 

[avsfan09]

@Pierce Hawthorne I think Girard is already a clear top 4 guy. But I'd agree we need to draft a LD if possible high. We can take a few shots later as well.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

@Pierce Hawthorne I think Girard is already a clear top 4 guy. But I'd agree we need to draft a LD if possible high. We can take a few shots later as well.

Hes close but I dont think his consistency is quite there enough. Definitely has the value of a Top 4 Defender but I'd like to see a touch more consistency out of his game first.


I do think as soon as next year hes a legit Top 4 guy perhaps even pushing to be a #2.

Still, he and Makar are the only two safe bets to be Top 4 Dmen om this team in 3-4 years from now. Barrie's future is unknown, EJ is certainly not gonna be a Top 4 guy either. Zadorov hasn't shown any signs of taking that step forward consistently... and after that we're back to Timmins and Meloche.

 

[Ivan13]

Hes close but I dont think his consistency is quite there enough. Definitely has the value of a Top 4 Defender but I'd like to see a touch more consistency out of his game first.


I do think as soon as next year hes a legit Top 4 guy perhaps even pushing to be a #2.

Still, he and Makar are the only two safe bets to be Top 4 Dmen om this team in 3-4 years from now. Barrie's future is unknown, EJ is certainly not gonna be a Top 4 guy either. Zadorov hasn't shown any signs of taking that step forward consistently... and after that we're back to Timmins and Meloche.

I think people conveniently forget he was not all that good for good parts of the season.

 

[Patagonia]

You're right, 2nd rounders are basically worthless.
Barely any good impact players outside the 1st round.
Scouting must be such an easy job, only have to focus on your first round pick every year unless you've traded it with that worthless 2nd rounder for a player of need, which also never happens...

You're totally missing the point.

Reimer might have negative value. There are plenty of UFAs or Waiver Goalies available. You can't assume the AVs would offer their 1st - 16th for a player they don't even need or make the effort to flip him elsewhere?

The basis of this thread is to propose a reasonable deal fair to both sides. You've flipped the discussion and believe AVs or any team would be willing to send a mid - 1st for a cap dump.