Confirmed Trade: [FLA/CGY] Matthew Tkachuk, c. 2025 4th for Jonathan Huberdeau, MacKenzie Weegar, Cole Schwindt, c. 2025 1st

[TheImpatientPanther]

So none.

Great.

I think it's cute that you are basing your opinion on the article that the win column posted. But it doesn't take into consideration that when Tkachuk wasn't playing with Gaudreau/Lindholm last year, his most common line mate was Backlund who is elite defensively and drove the play on that line.

There is a reason Tkachuk doesn't kill penalties.

There is a reason why Lindholm finished second in Selke voting and Tkachuk was 27th with one 4th place vote.

But tell me more about what the words and numbers tell you from that article.

Don't get me wrong. Matt is good defensively. He just isn't Lindholm.

Your eyes are sorely missed in the Flames management group then, they're better than the stats which are used by many on here and by other analysts?

You don't want to post them because they undermine your narrative?
That stats show Lindholm wasn't as good as Tkachuk defensively, not by a huge margin but still noticeable.

So someone who plays PK for a couple minutes per game is better defensively than someone who plays more 5 on 5?
Just because?

 

[Rubi]

Your eyes are sorely missed in the Flames management group then, they're better than the stats which are used by many on here and by other analysts?

You don't want to post them because they undermine your narrative?
That stats show Lindholm wasn't as good as Tkachuk defensively, not by a huge margin but still noticeable.

So someone who plays PK for a couple minutes per game is better defensively than someone who plays more 5 on 5?
Just because?

I don't think you will find a single Flames fan here who thinks Tkachuk is superior to Lindholm, when it comes to playing defense. And these fans have watched both players play hundreds of games. Sorry but you are just plain wrong.

 

[blankall]

Not necessarily, stats show otherwise.
Lindholm was the 3rd most important piece on the line in terms of offense and defense.

Feel free to post stats providing Lindholm as the key defensive piece if need be

Lol. You think Tkachuk and Gaudreau are better defensive players than Lindholm. You do realize that Lindholm was second to Bergeron in Selke votes? Gaudreau needed Sutter to hold his hand and show him where his own zone was. Tkachuk is way too slow of a skater to ever be an effective two way player.

Tkachuk's strength is positioning and being able to play the puck very quickly. Worked great with Gaudreau, who has elite vision.

Your eyes are sorely missed in the Flames management group then, they're better than the stats which are used by many on here and by other analysts?

You don't want to post them because they undermine your narrative?
That stats show Lindholm wasn't as good as Tkachuk defensively, not by a huge margin but still noticeable.

So someone who plays PK for a couple minutes per game is better defensively than someone who plays more 5 on 5?
Just because?

And how do you explain Lindholm being second in Selke voting? I guess....members of the Professional Hockey Writer's Association aren't analysts?

 

[Haatley]

Your eyes are sorely missed in the Flames management group then, they're better than the stats which are used by many on here and by other analysts?

You don't want to post them because they undermine your narrative?
That stats show Lindholm wasn't as good as Tkachuk defensively, not by a huge margin but still noticeable.

So someone who plays PK for a couple minutes per game is better defensively than someone who plays more 5 on 5?
Just because?

Just admit you haven't watched. If you did you wouldn't be making these claims.

Don't most coaches use their top defensive players on the PK?

The analysts who look at those numbers said "Elias Lindholm is the second best defensive forward in the league last season.

 

[Oilslick941611]

---

Interesting tidbit about Tkachuk's season last year. He went on a ridiculous tear with 38 points in his final 20 games. He was only slightly above a point per game prior to that run at 66 points in 62 games.

Not trying to put the player down, but in reality that 20 game hot streak where he was scoring at nearly 2ppg was a big outlier that he never has matched in his entire career, and likely was a big factor in the Flames pulling the value they did out of Florida. Does Zito make the same trade if Tkachuk had finished the season around 90 points instead of 104?

I just see Tkachuk regressing to 70-90 points for most of the deal. Obviously the same thing can be said about Huberdeau's career season, however his regression to the mean is still a point per game player based on the last few seasons. This is certainly going to be an interesting deal to watch how the value plays out for both teams in the next several years.

and completely forgot to play during the playoffs.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Try to remember it doesn’t include PP1 time and even then the main driver on PP1 is Huberdeau and not Barkov.

Be prepared for Florida to regress without having an elite playmaker setting everyone up for easy goals.

Sorry to tell everyone.

Bennett will regress back to Bennett Flames fans will tell you is useless and lazy.

Florida will replace Huberdeau as the setup man on PP1 with Reinhart and quite frankly there is a massive drop in quality.

The only reason Tkachuk is scoring all these highlight goals is the fact he had both Gaudreau as well as Lindholm setting him up over and over.

Watch video and you are going to quick see Tkachuk is an absolutely lazy floater.

He likes to sit at the opponents blue line waiting for stretch passes as it’s the only way he can have any success on the rush as his foot speed is not only below average in fact his skating is likely one of the absolute weakest parts of his game.

Everyone assumes Tkachuk is going to have no issues hitting 90-100 points with Barkov and really why is that?

Barkov is absolutely inferior to every possible manner in terms of offence and playmaking compared to Gaudreau.

Lindholm is absolutely equal to Barkov in terms of offensive skills. Barlow if anything has an ever slightly better two way game.

I don’t think anyone realizes Lindholm should have hands down won the Selke last year and it shouldn’t have been close.

Lindholm put up 40g while putting up top 10 +\- numbers while playing PP1/PK1 time.

Yet Lindholm apparently isn’t a #1C.

News flash. Lind hole is a very good #1C he’s just not as generational on offence compared to others.

Either way with Tkachuk on Florida my guess is 25-30 goals and 30-35 assists.

I was so god damn happy when his lazy fat drunk daddy told him not to sign in Calgary. The guy and his family is an absolute embarrassment.

Keith Tkachuk was sitting there at the games not just getting drunk but getting absolutely hammered beyond belief all because the flames provided free passes to the entire Tkachuk entourage.

I’m actually surprised the league allows this crap. It was an absolute disgrace during the playoffs. But hey congrats on having that same big fat drunk cheering your team on.

To be honest I didn’t even like the flames pick of Tkachuk at the draft.

The flames were 100% set to draft either Sergachev or Keller had the Vancouver Canucks not made the stupidest move in franchise history drafting Juolevi.

Not only did they take Juolevi ahead of Tkachuk they also took him ahead of Sergachev and Keller. Was as bad or worse than Florida taking Drouin 3 years earlier.

You do not win championships when you have selfish players like the Tkachuks playing on your team. Daddy Tkachuk has taught his boys they are above the team and their needs come ahead of their teammates.

Tkachuks are the type of players you lose with, not win with. The only way we ever see a Tkachuk hoisting a cup is only if they are a complimentary piece and not a primary top line player.

Tkachuks always place themselves ahead of anyone else on the team.

Will laugh when Florida misses the playoffs this year. If you don’t think it’s possible take a look at the D again.

"Lindholm is absolutely equal to Barkov offensively..."

 

[Fig]

Didn't read the full thread, just spouting out opinions that probably many have already said.

I do not comprehend the logic in adding Weegar in the deal for Panthers. Huby, and maybe a pick should've been a fair play. Well, I do not comprehend the Panther's logic in trading Huberdeau out at first place for pretty much anything. He was one of the faces of the franchise. It hurts the cats team chemistry and productivity + after losing Weegar their defense is not looking very impressive. Also, I'm not convinced that Tkatchuk will fit in Panthers system very well. Hopefully he will.

The logic for Weegar and Huberdeau was supposed to be one step back for two forward for their attempt at a dynasty. The logic for the Flames was to go big, then see if there's anything left to salvage in about 2-3 seasons.

Most Panther fans seem perfectly fine with the value given. Flames fans were elated with the value received.

Tkachuk will IMO fit very well in the Panthers system. It will be scary and new, but awesome. Like the first day of school where things will only get more interesting as times goes on. He is more of a catalyst than driver and his playmaking style is similar to that of Huberdeau's mind boggling quick pass style. Looking at some of the Huberdreau highlights, I was like, "Whoa, I didn't expect that!" and Tkachuk will do the exact same but in a completely different manner. He rounds out some of the top 6 skills that were considered lacking in the Panthers top 6, but Panthers won't be considered to have suddenly become highly proficient in those skills added by Tkachuk.

Tkachuk is absolutely a unicorn, but perhaps not in the way that most fans will identify. He is an insane catalyst and likely one of the absolute best catalysts in the entire league. Like a catalyst, he is relatively unable to do much on his own, but like a catalyst, he can amplify other players to levels that are nearly impossible to amplify to with other players.

That's why the 3M line was so damn good defensively. Why last year's line with Lindholm and Gaudreau were so damn good defensively, yet so damn good offensively as well. He can play with basically anyone from grinders to pure skill players and has demonstrated this with differing high calibre players of this ilk.

Panther fans will love Tkachuk, but I also don't think that they will love Tkachuk for the reasons they think they will love Tkachuk.

 

[violaswallet]

Didn't read the full thread, just spouting out opinions that probably many have already said.

I do not comprehend the logic in adding Weegar in the deal for Panthers. Huby, and maybe a pick should've been a fair play. Well, I do not comprehend the Panther's logic in trading Huberdeau out at first place for pretty much anything. He was one of the faces of the franchise. It hurts the cats team chemistry and productivity + after losing Weegar their defense is not looking very impressive. Also, I'm not convinced that Tkatchuk will fit in Panthers system very well. Hopefully he will.

Here's the logic with Weegar: Weegar is going to be paid a large amount of money. League sources implied that the Sergachev deal raised the likely salary. Florida has had a history of acrimonious negotiations with him. With the current salary structure, Weegar priced himself out, so Florida traded him as a rental

 

[Bounces R Way]

"Lindholm is absolutely equal to Barkov offensively..."

View attachment 579034

Still a better take than Lindholm was the 3rd best defensive player as the center on his line.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Still a better take than Lindholm was the 3rd best defensive player as the center on his line.

Reading comprehension is key, it said on both offense AND defense.
Lindholm couldn't fill half of Barkov's jock skill wise

No Flames takes in here have been remotely close when talking about Huberdeau, so it's all good.
Sometimes the bounces don't go our way

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Not necessarily, stats show otherwise.
Lindholm was the 3rd most important piece on the line in terms of offense and defense.

Feel free to post stats providing Lindholm as the key defensive piece if need be

I feel you also have to factor the team mates that each played when not paired together. Lindholm played with a random aggregation of wingers far more often in the dzone. Gaudreau and Tkachuk especially played with Backlund an elite possession player and more often in ozone as well. Now it does indicate that Lindholm isn't as good defensively if he's not paired with the right partners and he does need to improve exiting and entry, but overall he's still the best defensive catalyst on the line if not relied upon as the main entry and exiter. That being said yes Lindholm is definitely not close to Barkov's level defensively. Also, it's not as if Lindholm is bad at entries and exits. He's still a good entry and exit player, it's just he's never needed to be relied upon as his job. I do think Huberdeau and Lindholm's points will both drop this season, but not by too much. If they play with Mangiapane, Mangiapane easily scores far more points.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Reading comprehension is key, it said on both offense AND defense.
Lindholm couldn't fill half of Barkov's jock skill wise

No Flames takes in here have been remotely close when talking about Huberdeau, so it's all good.
Sometimes the bounces don't go our way

That would mean both offense and defense independently. Articulacy is key.

I find it helps to read what you post before you post it.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

That would mean both offense and defense independently. Articulacy is key.

I find it helps to read what you post before you post it.

I find it helps that Flames fans know everything, they teach us Panthers fans all we need to know.
How good we will be this year and how sucky Tkachuk is but how amazing Huberdeau and Weegar will be for them

 

[VijayPatel11]

I find it funny that everybody who doesn't actually watch the Panthers is telling Panthers fans how good their (former) players are.

And before Tkachuk was traded I'm sure most of you Flames fans weren't bad-mouthing him as much as you do now.

 

[Fig]

I find it funny that everybody who doesn't actually watch the Panthers is telling Panthers fans how good their (former) players are.

And before Tkachuk was traded I'm sure most of you Flames fans weren't bad-mouthing him as much as you do now.

Not true. Although I don't know the details of how badly the Panthers criticized Huberdeau, I assume there were lots of similarities.

Although everyone is going Huberdeau and Gaudreau (presumably due to the similarity in names) I think there's been a few posters who have been arguing that Huberdeau and Tkachuk share more similarities than Huberdeau and Gaudreau. Based on those facets, it should mean that the two guys will fit on each team reasonably well, but there are certainly some question marks that need the players playing to see how they shake out. Then, they're also criticized unfairly for team failings even though everyone keeps saying that they're not the best players on their team, they then hold those guys to a standard that seems higher than the actual best players on the team.

Lots of posters on both sides think it'll be a win win and both sides have been vehemently splitting hairs about certain details of their former players. Like... it's basically hit the zenith now for on paper theories. We have to see them play it on the ice now.

I find it helps that Flames fans know everything, they teach us Panthers fans all we need to know.
How good we will be this year and how sucky Tkachuk is but how amazing Huberdeau and Weegar will be for them

Huh? There's plenty of Flames fans saying that it will be a win for both teams. Quite a few saying that Panthers will love Tkachuk and he will mesh well, but not in the way that is currently imagined.

But then you're arguing the the dregs in this thread and painting the rest of us with the same brush. Come on.

 

[Bond]

Gaudreau was 100% the offensive driver on that line. Tkachuk is a great player but was the secondary offensive player on the 1st line which isn't an insult when he was paired with Gaudreau.

 

[Rubi]

I find it funny that everybody who doesn't actually watch the Panthers is telling Panthers fans how good their (former) players are.

And before Tkachuk was traded I'm sure most of you Flames fans weren't bad-mouthing him as much as you do now.

Flames fans were quite aware of Tkachuk's warts. We just didn't talk about them a lot in public in front of strangers. I don't believe anyone is bad mouthing him... they just aren't glossing over his defects. All we are trying to do is be honest about your new boyfriend. He has his pluses but he also has some faults.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Not true. Although I don't know the details of how badly the Panthers criticized Huberdeau, I assume there were lots of similarities.

Although everyone is going Huberdeau and Gaudreau (presumably due to the similarity in names) I think there's been a few posters who have been arguing that Huberdeau and Tkachuk share more similarities than Huberdeau and Gaudreau. Based on those facets, it should mean that the two guys will fit on each team reasonably well, but there are certainly some question marks that need the players playing to see how they shake out. Then, they're also criticized unfairly for team failings even though everyone keeps saying that they're not the best players on their team, they then hold those guys to a standard that seems higher than the actual best players on the team.

Lots of posters on both sides think it'll be a win win and both sides have been vehemently splitting hairs about certain details of their former players. Like... it's basically hit the zenith now for on paper theories. We have to see them play it on the ice now.



Huh? There's plenty of Flames fans saying that it will be a win for both teams. Quite a few saying that Panthers will love Tkachuk and he will mesh well, but not in the way that is currently imagined.

But then you're arguing the the dregs in this thread and painting the rest of us with the same brush. Come on.

@Rubi and @DFF are two of the overachievers in this thread.
Hopefully your own board doesn't hold their opinions in too high of regards

And while away from this site but still lurking, I did see your interactions with Florida fans and they were genuine hockey convos, I appreciate and respect that.

 

[Rubi]

@Rubi and @DFF are two of the overachievers in this thread.
Hopefully your own board doesn't hold their opinions in too high of regards

And where exactly have I bad mouthed Tkachuk (unless you consider being honest about Tkachuk's faults is bad mouthing) or gone about telling Panther fans they are wrong about Huberdeau or Weegar?
I swear, you're like the new girlfriend who refuses to hear anything negative about her new boyfriend. If you think he's going to bring home flowers every night, it ain't gonna happen.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

And where exactly have I bad mouthed Tkachuk (unless you consider being honest about Tkachuk's faults is bad mouthing) or gone about telling Panther fans they are wrong about Huberdeau or Weegar?
I swear, you're like the new girlfriend who refuses to hear anything negative about her new boyfriend. If you think he's going to bring home flowers every night, it ain't gonna happen.

"Flames fans were quite aware of Tkachuk's warts. We just didn't talk about them a lot in public in front of strangers. I don't believe anyone is bad mouthing him... they just aren't glossing over his defects. All we are trying to do is be honest about your new boyfriend. He has his pluses but he also has some faults"

This is the shit you should stop doing, the keyboard warrior stuff.
Calling Tkachuk our new boyfriend.

 

[DFF]

@Rubi and @DFF are two of the overachievers in this thread.
Hopefully your own board doesn't hold their opinions in too high of regards

And while away from this site but still lurking, I did see your interactions with Florida fans and they were genuine hockey convos, I appreciate and respect that.

What did I do? When did this thread become ‘trash the poster?

 

[Laus723]

Flames fans were quite aware of Tkachuk's warts. We just didn't talk about them a lot in public in front of strangers. I don't believe anyone is bad mouthing him... they just aren't glossing over his defects. All we are trying to do is be honest about your new boyfriend. He has his pluses but he also has some faults.

Why? Why is there so much bullshit (from both sides) in this thread? Cause someone spoke poorly about Huby and Weegs?
Makes no sense.

Plenty of Panther fans have had their issues with both guys we have up, most are happy with the trade or at least that we got Tkachuk.

Flames fans are happy about ho they got for someone that was leaving. I’m more than sure people had some issues with Tkachuk before he was traded.

It’s a win-win, why tf is there a need to point out warts and keep bitching about guys who aren’t on the team anymore?

 

[Rubi]

"Flames fans were quite aware of Tkachuk's warts. We just didn't talk about them a lot in public in front of strangers. I don't believe anyone is bad mouthing him... they just aren't glossing over his defects. All we are trying to do is be honest about your new boyfriend. He has his pluses but he also has some faults"

This is the shit you should stop doing, the keyboard warrior stuff.
Calling Tkachuk our new boyfriend.

I think you're are being overly sensitive but sorry to have hurt your feelings since I obviously have.


Edit: let me put this another way... sorry you took offense to what I said. I was just trying to illustrate my point by using a real world scenario.

 

[Duffalufagus]

The logic for Weegar and Huberdeau was supposed to be one step back for two forward for their attempt at a dynasty. The logic for the Flames was to go big, then see if there's anything left to salvage in about 2-3 seasons.

Most Panther fans seem perfectly fine with the value given. Flames fans were elated with the value received.

Tkachuk will IMO fit very well in the Panthers system. It will be scary and new, but awesome. Like the first day of school where things will only get more interesting as times goes on. He is more of a catalyst than driver and his playmaking style is similar to that of Huberdeau's mind boggling quick pass style. Looking at some of the Huberdreau highlights, I was like, "Whoa, I didn't expect that!" and Tkachuk will do the exact same but in a completely different manner. He rounds out some of the top 6 skills that were considered lacking in the Panthers top 6, but Panthers won't be considered to have suddenly become highly proficient in those skills added by Tkachuk.

Tkachuk is absolutely a unicorn, but perhaps not in the way that most fans will identify. He is an insane catalyst and likely one of the absolute best catalysts in the entire league. Like a catalyst, he is relatively unable to do much on his own, but like a catalyst, he can amplify other players to levels that are nearly impossible to amplify to with other players.

That's why the 3M line was so damn good defensively. Why last year's line with Lindholm and Gaudreau were so damn good defensively, yet so damn good offensively as well. He can play with basically anyone from grinders to pure skill players and has demonstrated this with differing high calibre players of this ilk.

Panther fans will love Tkachuk, but I also don't think that they will love Tkachuk for the reasons they think they will love Tkachuk.

I want to see Tkachuk play without Gaudreau. I see huge regression coming here. Johnny drove that line and Kindy and Tkachuk had the skill set to benefit from absolute elite play making. I say less than 80 points this year for Chucky.

 

[ScottyMascotty]

Florida will replace Huberdeau as the setup man on PP1 with Reinhart and quite frankly there is a massive drop in quality.

I'm not sure. Barkov can be setup man. Overall, the problem with our PP was lack of shooting & sometimes net presence. Huberdeau is elite passer, but he is also predictable in terms of prefererring to try to make perfect pass than just shoot.

Watch video and you are going to quick see Tkachuk is an absolutely lazy floater.

He likes to sit at the opponents blue line waiting for stretch passes as it’s the only way he can have any success on the rush as his foot speed is not only below average in fact his skating is likely one of the absolute weakest parts of his game.

Huberdeau isn't fast and he also likes to float a lot and wait for stretch passes at the blue line.