Fire Luke Richardson

[Chelios]

He's just an extremely toolsy, athletic guy, who does a lot of brain dead, head down hockey. Those are my least favorite players to watch and they age like shit.

He still has had a pretty good back half of his season. Still think Vlasic is our #1 now though.

I just think a lot of the things that drive many crazy about Jones stems from playing on a shit team where he feels the need to do too much. I have said it before, but as the team improves I can see him settling into being a reliable defensive defenseman as he gets older similar to how Ryan McDonagh did.

 

[statswatcher]

I just think a lot of the things that drive many crazy about Jones stems from playing on a shit team where he feels the need to do too much. I have said it before, but as the team improves I can see him settling into being a reliable defensive defenseman as he gets older similar to how Ryan McDonagh did.

i can see that as a possibility as well. it's a long way up before he can get there is all i'm really saying. my earliest posts were defending seth jones. in the two seasons since, i don't think he's rewarded my original optimism.

 

[hawksfan50]

It amazes me that anyone can think any coach...even one better than LR ,is going to turn our Hawksvinto cobtender'like shotcsuppressoers And/OR puck possession dominator...the majority of our players cannot win races on loose pucks,cannot shove guys off pucksxwoth checks,cannot jeep the puck when ahovedvoffbit by the opps,cannot efficiently win the puck batylrs then clear it out fast..Itvis Not in their capability..for some NEVERbut maybe forctge kids they might..I said might slowly improve at these tasks.

But no coach will be able to change any of this..not a different strategy..thatxwill not change anything. BEtter pkayers in the 2 wY game..a combo of more scoring talent to boostboffebse and more power grit and speed.. alk necessary to get to the improvement level required.

A new coach will prevent Murphy from being easily walked around for clear paths to our net

Or turn Bedard into a good d-zone defender? Just not gonna happen...

A different coach with the currentvcrew of Blackhawks is going to cause a huge offensive outburst of goals for?

Get real.. never could hapoen.


The players must have better talent and better defending.

No coach will cause Entwhiste to all of a sudden develop hands,never going to happen.

LR was dealt a bad hand by KD .only so much a human can do when giving instructions to sh*t .

 

[WarriorofTime]

Jack Johnson may have been the dumbest NHL defenseman I've ever seen in his 20s, and he's managed to play 557 games post age 30. Not that it's the greatest measure of stuff, but I don't think he had a big contract keeping him in the NHL or anything. Sometimes they get a bit smarter with age. I think Jones is improving there just in his Hawks tenure. Not so much on powerplay though, so hopefully they can upgrade that spot.

 

[hockeydoug]

It amazes me that anyone can think any coach...even one better than LR ,is going to turn our Hawksvinto cobtender'like shotcsuppressoers And/OR puck possession dominator...the majority of our players cannot win races on loose pucks,cannot shove guys off pucksxwoth checks,cannot jeep the puck when ahovedvoffbit by the opps,cannot efficiently win the puck batylrs then clear it out fast..Itvis Not in their capability..for some NEVERbut maybe forctge kids they might..I said might slowly improve at these tasks.

But no coach will be able to change any of this..not a different strategy..thatxwill not change anything. BEtter pkayers in the 2 wY game..a combo of more scoring talent to boostboffebse and more power grit and speed.. alk necessary to get to the improvement level required.

A new coach will prevent Murphy from being easily walked around for clear paths to our net

Or turn Bedard into a good d-zone defender? Just not gonna happen...

A different coach with the currentvcrew of Blackhawks is going to cause a huge offensive outburst of goals for?

Get real.. never could hapoen.


The players must have better talent and better defending.

No coach will cause Entwhiste to all of a sudden develop hands,never going to happen.

LR was dealt a bad hand by KD .only so much a human can do when giving instructions to sh*t .

• Don't finish the year without having an identity
• Don't make more players suck more than they have to
• Don't set laughing stock records

How is that not the lowest bar to clear to keep a job?

 

[WarriorofTime]

• Don't finish the year without having an identity

Vague

• Don't make more players suck more than they have to

Vague

• Don't set laughing stock records

Laughing stock records - what are these?

How is that not the lowest bar to clear to keep a job?

Tank coach brought in to tank with a tank roster. Impossible to know temperature of room but vets wanting to re-sign probably suggests it's not a culture on fire.

 

[Chuck Testa]

No problem with people arguing whether Jones is a #1 D or not (I personally think he is a low end). But to say he isn’t a top pairing defenseman is just flat out wrong.

Which is the reason I think that Bedard should be allowed to move around on the powerplay and not be stapled to one side of the ice on the powerplay. He's easy to isolate if the other team knows that he's going to be stuck on the left side. They should let him move around and draw defenders to him, which in turn would open up space for the other guys.

Just my opinion.

 

[bwanajamba]

Which is the reason I think that Bedard should be allowed to move around on the powerplay and not be stapled to one side of the ice on the powerplay. He's easy to isolate if the other team knows that he's going to be stuck on the left side. They should let him move around and draw defenders to him, which in turn would open up space for the other guys.

Just my opinion.

That would be ideal but the other four guys on PP1 have proved they can't hold on to the puck long enough to wait for Bedard to move around and it's fairly simple to trap him along the line when he tries to carry the puck to the other side (you saw teams make this adjustment after those Phoenix and Anaheim games)

 

[Chuck Testa]

That would be ideal but the other four guys on PP1 have proved they can't hold on to the puck long enough to wait for Bedard to move around and it's fairly simple to trap him along the line when he tries to carry the puck to the other side (you saw teams make this adjustment after those Phoenix and Anaheim games)

That's very true. Hopefully once the roster is able to be filled out better and more talent arrives to surround Bedard, he'll be able to move around a bit more on the powerplays.

 

[Hawkaholic]

No problem with people arguing whether Jones is a #1 D or not (I personally think he is a low end). But to say he isn’t a top pairing defenseman is just flat out wrong.

Majority of this year he played like dog shit and didn't resemble a top pairing D man at all. Lately, he's been playing more like one, but I don't consider someone who plays like a middle pairing Dman for most of the year to be a top pairing Dman at the time, too much inconsistency.

Last year he also didn't play like a top pairing Dman, so give me more than every other year of playing like a top pairing Dman and I'll give him that. He is definitely not a #1D, not even sure how anyone can argue he is.

 

[Chelios]

Majority of this year he played like dog shit and didn't resemble a top pairing D man at all. Lately, he's been playing more like one, but I don't consider someone who plays like a middle pairing Dman for most of the year to be a top pairing Dman at the time, too much inconsistency.

Last year he also didn't play like a top pairing Dman, so give me more than every other year of playing like a top pairing Dman and I'll give him that. He is definitely not a #1D, not even sure how anyone can argue he is.

Again, you are just not being rational. He hasn’t been dogshit most of the year, nor has he played like a second pair defenseman for most of the year. He has had some bad stretches for sure, but you are completely over blowing how bad he has been. You are also completely ignoring the situation he is in, which is playing huge minutes in a horrible team. I am sure there are lots of defencemen that you consider better than Jones that would look just as bad if not worse as the workhorse on this team.

 

[Pez68]

Seth Jones also played with a broken thumb, did he not?

 

[Malaka]

i took the 64 defensemen with the highest toi/gp among those with at least 999 minutes played since 2021-22. then i ranked them by a smattering of metrics. this was where seth jones ranked:
toi 5459:40 (18th)
toi/gp 25:23 (3rd!)
shots/60 all strength 5.95 (23rd)
shots/60 5v5 5.53 (22nd)
p/60 all strength 1.31 (44th)
p/60 5v5 0.92 (43rd)
CF% all strength 50.49 (39th)
CF% 5v5 47.86 (44th)
GF% all strength 44.46 (57th)
GF% 5v5 42.26 (64th)
PDO all strength 0.972 (64th)
offensive zone start % all strength 51.65 (27th)
offensive zone start % 5v5 51.2 (28th)
cap hit $9,500,000 ( T-4th among all Dmen & T-19th among ALL PLAYERS)

seth jones' playtime is proportional to his pay. unfortunately he is overplayed and overpaid for the results he gets on the ice. i once in a fit of anger claimed he was not a top 4 defenseman on a stanley cup winning team. soberly looking a these numbers, that was maybe harsh. at the same time, there is no argument to be made from these numbers that he is a number one option. if he is a top two defenseman, then he must be solidly a second guy to compliment an elite left handed number one. i have my doubts that he is even that. i think seth's ideal role is as a really good second pair offensive defenseman that plays the powerplay. if the team had a right hander who could play big minutes in front of him, he wouldn't get so much grief. his contract precludes him from slotting into that role however. he is paid like not just a top guy but the top guy, yet he produces like a good complimentary piece.

to bring this around to the thread topic, the best argument for seth jones being a bonafide top pair nhl defenseman is the same argument for luke richardson being an nhl head coach: they've both been given absolutley nothing to work with with zero expectation of success. thus my line is basically the same on both: let's see how they do with a half-way decent blackhawks roster around them. maybe with an actual forward core to play behind good old 9.5 could prove me wrong and carry his weight. maybe luke richardson could have a winning season. time will tell.

Posted this in another thread. I think on both beginnings of an argument for whether he’s a top 2 or top 4 it comes down to that idea of “you’re only as good as your last game played”. Until about January(?) I think this board would have no problem with discussing his lack of performance to signify top pairing.


“Calling jones the 20th best(or most productive) ppqb over the last 7+ years is disingenuous at best, as it is is a limited position… for those with an average of 2:00 a game or more on the powerplay(threshold should probably be 1:00-1:30 min since PP2 jumps on) he’s ranked 51st out of 81 in power play points per 60 which is probably a more reliable metric to measure production. I guess that is the same percentile if there is 1 ppqb each team, but it would leave him close toward the back or a standard deviation below average”

Bowman probably thought he could find cheap offensively minded talent to supplement his game, or vice versa a SAHD defenseman to allow him to justify the contract…

Either way his numbers to me represent that of a #3, and as others have implied it won’t get better with 6 years left for someone who’s physically aging and your game revolves around athleticism





On the thread topic, I don’t have a crystal ball shoved up my ass, but watch what you say as the monkey paw curls — I’d put money for Don Granato to come back to Chicago and be involved here for better or worse. Some say he’s great at developing young talent. Others say he has no system, no adaptation strategies, etc.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Posted this in another thread. I think on both beginnings of an argument for whether he’s a top 2 or top 4 it comes down to that idea of “you’re only as good as your last game played”. Until about January(?) I think this board would have no problem with discussing his lack of performance to signify top pairing.


“Calling jones the 20th best(or most productive) ppqb over the last 7+ years is disingenuous at best, as it is is a limited position… for those with an average of 2:00 a game or more on the powerplay(threshold should probably be 1:00-1:30 min since PP2 jumps on) he’s ranked 51st out of 81 in power play points per 60 which is probably a more reliable metric to measure production. I guess that is the same percentile if there is 1 ppqb each team, but it would leave him close toward the back or a standard deviation below average”

That discussion was more about the insistence that Korchinski be given PP1 time, I pointed out that Jones has experience running a powerplay and a bit of a track record. I never said Jones was good at playing the powerplay, which I don't consider him to be, just that Korchinski should have to earn that role rather than have it handed to him for being born in 2004. I stand by that too. If you make Korchinski the PP1 QB, ok now what, say you draft Levshunov or Parekh who have Powerplay QB upside, they join the team, and now Korchinski is like 21 or 22, and thinks "this is my job, they shouldn't get it, what have they done to unseat me.." when Korchinski himself never actually earned the job..

 

[MarotteMarauder]

Tank coach brought in to tank with a tank roster. Impossible to know temperature of room but vets wanting to re-sign probably suggests it's not a culture on fire.

Being paid above market value helps a bit too.

 

[hockeydoug]

Vague

Vague

Laughing stock records - what are these?

Tank coach brought in to tank with a tank roster. Impossible to know temperature of room but vets wanting to re-sign probably suggests it's not a culture on fire.

Described previously multiple times in the thread.

Tanking is losing, and you can still do productive things while losing. Not happening in Chicago.

-14 average shot differential the last 10 games (and that's counting CGY and PHI in there).
Nothing like teaching Bedard and KK to block shots and win loose pucks in their own zone.

2 years.

On the vets resigning, Dickinson is the only maybe, and nobody was going to pay him for his Chicago production. Mrazek is getting paid to not win and Foligno was paid 3-4x market value. As much as I like him and how that trade worked out, Dickinson wouldn't get 13.5 minutes a night on any of the playoff teams.

 

[ClydeLee]

Described previously multiple times in the thread.

Tanking is losing, and you can still do productive things while losing. Not happening in Chicago.

-14 average shot differential the last 10 games (and that's counting CGY and PHI in there).
Nothing like teaching Bedard and KK to block shots and win loose pucks in their own zone.

2 years.

On the vets resigning, Dickinson is the only maybe, and nobody was going to pay him for his Chicago production. Mrazek is getting paid to not win and Foligno was paid 3-4x market value. As much as I like him and how that trade worked out, Dickinson wouldn't get 13.5 minutes a night on any of the playoff teams.

Dickinson had 16 mins a night on the Stars that went to the cup final 4 years ago... and he's a better player now.

He also finished with a clear career high 50% at faceoffs, despite some complaints of him on draws all year and insults to the coaching staff about that.

 

[hockeydoug]

Majority of this year he played like dog shit and didn't resemble a top pairing D man at all. Lately, he's been playing more like one, but I don't consider someone who plays like a middle pairing Dman for most of the year to be a top pairing Dman at the time, too much inconsistency.

Last year he also didn't play like a top pairing Dman, so give me more than every other year of playing like a top pairing Dman and I'll give him that. He is definitely not a #1D, not even sure how anyone can argue he is.

The defense was literally doing nothing to get the puck to a shooter, let alone shoot themselves for about 10 weeks at one point. He was flying around (and marking up shinpads) because nobody under Richardson's "system" was doing a damn thing to make the opponent make a decision let alone make the opponent move out of their lane. Literally one of the easiest teams to defend against that I've watched since they eliminated 2 line passes.

Jones was pressing to create, it wasn't good but it was pretty obvious he was doing many of those goofy things to spark some offense and force the opponent out of easy transitions/decisions.

Jones looked bad on many shifts throughout the year, in large part, because of this coaching staff. The guy took so many extra strides on an already huge workload, that I was surprised he didn't look worse much of the year. Vlasic is still figuring things out, so it was on Jones. It wasn't subtle, and he's not going to play like that when the Hawks are decent.

 

[hockeydoug]

Dickinson had 16 mins a night on the Stars that went to the cup final 4 years ago... and he's a better player now.

He also finished with a clear career high 50% at faceoffs, despite some complaints of him on draws all year and insults to the coaching staff about that.

Dickinson is slower than he was 4 years ago, he's a big forward. He'll be a very useful defensive player for a good team, but he' s not getting that type of offensive responsibility on a good team or even a team with 2 lines that can score.

 

[Hawkaholic]

The defense was literally doing nothing to get the puck to a shooter, let alone shoot themselves for about 10 weeks at one point. He was flying around (and marking up shinpads) because nobody under Richardson's "system" was doing a damn thing to make the opponent make a decision let alone make the opponent move out of their lane. Literally one of the easiest teams to defend against that I've watched since they eliminated 2 line passes.

Jones was pressing to create, it wasn't good but it was pretty obvious he was doing many of those goofy things to spark some offense and force the opponent out of easy transitions/decisions.

Jones looked bad on many shifts throughout the year, in large part, because of this coaching staff. The guy took so many extra strides on an already huge workload, that I was surprised he didn't look worse much of the year. Vlasic is still figuring things out, so it was on Jones. It wasn't subtle, and he's not going to play like that when the Hawks are decent.

This is where we just disagree on what is causing the issues. You think everything that has gone wrong, is because of Richardson. I think that a lot of what has gone wrong, is because the team lacks more or the same amount of talent than almost every other crap team in the cap era. You know what's really easy to defend? A team full of guys who shouldn't even be in the same league as you. It literally doesn't matter what a coach does, if the team is far less talented than almost every other single team in the league.

Vlasic looked better than Jones for the majority of the year, that really can't be debated. By the time the Hawks are decent, Jones will suck even more than he already does.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Dickinson is slower than he was 4 years ago, he's a big forward. He'll be a very useful defensive player for a good team, but he' s not getting that type of offensive responsibility on a good team or even a team with 2 lines that can score.

Its funny you say this, on one hand you are saying this team doesn't have one of the worst rosters since the cap era, yet here you are, saying our 2nd best forward (1st if you go by analytics) on the Hawks, wouldn't even sniff good ice time on a good team. lol

 

[WarriorofTime]

I've yet to see doug list any sort of thought or suggestion that wouldn't result in the Hawks being a perennial 12th place finisher in the conference. When you're more worried about being a "laughing stock" than doing right on a longer timeline, you've lost me.

 

[hockeydoug]

Its funny you say this, on one hand you are saying this team doesn't have one of the worst rosters since the cap era, yet here you are, saying our 2nd best forward on the Hawks, wouldn't even sniff good ice time on a good team. lol

This is irrational.

They are definitely in the bottom 10% of cap era teams, probably bottom 5% but that still leaves dozens as bad or worse. I've never suggested otherwise.

13.5 toi as a shutdown 3c on a good team is good. He's been playing out of his role, doing well, but he's not getting the shifts to pot 20 goals elsewhere, and the league knows it

 

[hockeydoug]

This is where we just disagree on what is causing the issues. You think everything that has gone wrong, is because of Richardson. I think that a lot of what has gone wrong, is because the team lacks more or the same amount of talent than almost every other crap team in the cap era. You know what's really easy to defend? A team full of guys who shouldn't even be in the same league as you. It literally doesn't matter what a coach does, if the team is far less talented than almost every other single team in the league.

Vlasic looked better than Jones for the majority of the year, that really can't be debated. By the time the Hawks are decent, Jones will suck even more than he already does.

I'm talking about performance relative to talent. This coaching staff is extremely poor. Objectively, they have more fireable statistics such as record losing streaks, record bad possession periods, lack of culture, near record shutouts, more players that matter regressing or underperforming than overperforming, without any metrics that point to promise.

Literally any other coaching staff in the league could advance more components of the club (system, special teams, important players, culture) better than this group has more than 2 years. Almost nobody cares about losing.

So at best it's bottom 3, at worst it's the worst. With an average coaching shelf-life of 2.4 years, he's overdue to get fired given the lack of tangible progress overall.

Remember when you were talking about them getting better? They're on another 5 game skid and are getting decimated 2 out of 3 periods and close to 5 to 1 when the outcome is still in question.

Vlasic has had an outstanding year, but he and Jones have very different responsibilities.

I've yet to see doug list any sort of thought or suggestion that wouldn't result in the Hawks being a perennial 12th place finisher in the conference. When you're more worried about being a "laughing stock" than doing right on a longer timeline, you've lost me.

Lol, who cares about points and finish in conference?

It's a rebuild, they need to build a foundation. This staff, and gm to an extent, gets bad marks for the year. What's the foundation on the ice after 2 years? I see nothing except a hot mess of unpreparedness and questionable effort most periods.

There's literally nothing to build on except the TOI the young players had, and the security or sales team could have directed that as well or better. How many 0-8 shot periods are okay in a year? Not goals, and not even SOGs, but actual shots generated without a brainfart by the other club?

 

[WarriorofTime]

It's a rebuild, they need to build a foundation.

Through the NHL Draft... not through stopgap vets and waiver pickups that won't be on the team in two years.