Fire(d) Fletcher

[deadhead]

I am glad that after years of describing Hakstol as the victim of the universe we moved on to describing Fletcher as the victim of the universe.

The schtick seems a bit transparent but hey. May be a good medication for you.

I don't think Chuck is a "victim of the universe," just the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There have been far worse GMs, it's hard to not make the playoffs after a half dozen seasons, but a number of GMs have managed that feat.

The idea that Fletcher is a total idiot who ruined a good team is nonsense, it's obvious looking at the rosters since 2010-11 that this team has been eroding talent over a long period. The rot goes much deeper, from the FO's delusions to probably some scouts who only have jobs b/c they're "Flyers for life." Fletcher may have delivered the "coup de grace" but the team was dying for a while.

I mean they were starting Manning, Lehtera, VdV, Hagg et al long before he got to town.

 

[kudymen]

I don't think Chuck is a "victim of the universe," just the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I am not going to nitpick, there are way "better" guys for this.

But latter part of this quote (if only he was someone else, somewhere else, sometime else) sounds like "shit luck fate", aka something I like to call victim of the universe

 

[dragonoffrost]

I am not going to nitpick, there are way "better" guys for this.

But latter part of this quote (if only he was someone else, somewhere else, sometime else) sounds like "shit luck fate", aka something I like to call victim of the universe

We don't defend Fletcher but then we go on to post manifests....

 

[deadhead]

No, it's more like the Peter principle.

I think Fletcher would have been fine taking over a franchise where they're starved for the playoffs, and patiently building a competitive team over 3-4 years, like he did in Minny. He's fundamentally a "safe" GM, and given that sort of situation would probably make it work to the extent of building a team that would make the playoffs a few times and maybe make it to the second round. Which is what mediocre GMs do, the system is set up that way with the draft and salary cap.

This situation required a "miracle" GM, who could hustle the FO, make brilliant moves to add talent with limited resources, keep a low profile and not alienate the PTB. Good luck finding that guy, and why would he take this job in the first place?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Chuck wasn't a victim of the universe, but man did he have some awful luck. I hope the guy is in for some good karma after his firing.

 

[kudymen]

We don't defend Fletcher but then we go on to post manifests....

Just sit back and watch.

 

[Curufinwe]

I mean they were starting Manning, Lehtera, VdV, Hagg et al long before he got to town.

And yet none of the teams those guys played on had a record as bad as Fletcher's 21-22 and 22-23 Flyers. Since the 2005 lockout, the only season with a lower P% was in 06-07.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No, it's more like the Peter principle.

I think Fletcher would have been fine taking over a franchise where they're starved for the playoffs, and patiently building a competitive team over 3-4 years, like he did in Minny. He's fundamentally a "safe" GM, and given that sort of situation would probably make it work to the extent of building a team that would make the playoffs a few times and maybe make it to the second round. Which is what mediocre GMs do, the system is set up that way with the draft and salary cap.

This situation required a "miracle" GM, who could hustle the FO, make brilliant moves to add talent with limited resources, keep a low profile and not alienate the PTB. Good luck finding that guy, and why would he take this job in the first place?

No GM would have been successful in Chuck's spot outside of a miracle or absolute genius.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

And it starts at the top.

With the delusion that this was a good team that was one or two moves away from being a SC contender.

And the pattern has been the same since 2012, except for two years when Hextall had the flexibility to start a rebuild, before they pushed him to be "competitive."

Holmgren in 2018-19 could have hired an upcoming young GM, or even given Fletcher the mandate to finish the rebuild that Hextall started, then aborted under pressure. He chose option "C", hire Fletcher and tell him to make a mediocre team competitive while G was under contract (as if G was McDavid).

I think Fletcher has known it was hopeless since last January, when he talked about needing to add top young players and his boss comes out as says they're going to "aggressively reload."

Have you ever worked for an idiot? All you can do is shrug your shoulders, collect your paycheck and send out your resume - except Chuck knows the later isn't a viable option.

I am both surprised and thankful that you somehow think I am capable of working for an idiot. I don't have the patience for that, deady.

Even if all of that is true, Fletcher's performance on the chosen path has been terrible. I realize we'll never know half of these answers, but my personal evaluations for GMs are based in how well they execute the plan. At no point in time have I been confident in their execution.

 

[freakydallas13]

Literally no one is saying Fletcher made an amazing team terrible, that is complete fiction.

He inherited a mediocre team and has made it worse at every turn while also maxing the cap and bleeding assets.

These are not subjective points, just descriptions of his tenure as GM. Deflect Fletcher's blame all want, you can't hand wave facts away.

This defence of him that amounts to "...being a GM is hard " is pathetic loser mentality, and is only an excuse if you're okay being the participation trophy of the NHL.

 

[renberg]

Chuck wasn't a victim of the universe, but man did he have some awful luck. I hope the guy is in for some good karma after his firing.

Luck =opportunity and preparation.
Chuck certainly had opportunities. That leaves preparation or lack thereof.

 

[deadhead]

And yet none of the teams those guys played on had a record as bad as Fletcher's 21-22 and 22-23 Flyers. Since the 2005 lockout, the only season with a lower P% was in 06-07.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

G got older, Simmonds fell off the cliff in 2018-19, Voracek fell off the cliff after 2019-20.
Hextall's draft picks simply weren't good enough to fill the gap.

If you kept the 2018-19 team together, they would still be a terrible team.
G - Couts - Voracek
JVR - Patrick - TK
Cates - Frost - Allison
Lindblom - Laughton - NAK
Laczynski, Raffl

Provorov - York
Sanheim - Gudas
Hagg - Ghost
Myers

Hart - Sandstrom

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Literally no one is saying Fletcher made an amazing team terrible, that is complete fiction.

He inherited a mediocre team and has made it worse at every turn while also maxing the cap and bleeding assets.

These are not subjective points, just descriptions of his tenure as GM. Deflect Fletcher's blame all want, you can't hand wave facts away.

This defence of him that amounts to "...being a GM is hard " is pathetic loser mentality, and is only an excuse if you're okay being the participation trophy of the NHL.

He inherited a BAD team. They were, I think, 3rd to last in the entire conference when he was hired.

The saving grace was supposed to be the prospect pool.

Then, oops, Nolan Patrick isn't Patrick Tavares. He's Brett Lindros.

And the rest of that supposed young new core? LMAO. You're seeing it.

Konecny Hart Provorov Sanheim and... Cates? Frost? Farabee? All to show for 5 drafts when the draft is the plan?

Nothing like Hextall inheriting still-young Giroux, Voracek, Couturier, Schenn, Ghost, Simmonds.

The damage caused to this franchise far predated Chuck. It takes time to manifest and Chuck is holding the ball.

 

[kudymen]

@Hollywood Cannon Do you by any chance have that Jordan Klepper (I think) gaslighting pic?

 

[freakydallas13]

He inherited a BAD team. They were, I think, 3rd to last in the entire conference when he was hired.

The saving grace was supposed to be the prospect pool.

Then, oops, Nolan Patrick isn't Patrick Tavares. He's Brett Lindros.

And the rest of that supposed young new core? LMAO. You're seeing it.

Konecny Hart Provorov Sanheim and... Cates? Frost? Farabee? All to show for 5 drafts when the draft is the plan?

Nothing like Hextall inheriting still-young Giroux, Voracek, Couturier, Schenn, Ghost, Simmonds.

The damage caused to this franchise far predated Chuck. It takes time to manifest and Chuck is holding the ball.

He inherited such an awful team, that the team made the playoffs the year before AND the year after he became the GM.

Truly an absolutely terrible team.

Also, they are literally the third worst team in the conference right now. So in 4 years of GM'ing, he's exactly where he started but with less prospects, less picks, and a maxed cap.

bUt ChUcK hAs BaD lUcK : (

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Think about it: A team's best players should be in their mid-twenties.

Who is responsible for the group of players in the Flyers' mid-twenties?

He inherited such an awful team, that the team made the playoffs the year before AND the year after he became the GM.

Truly an absolutely terrible team.

Also, they are literally the third worst team in the conference right now. So in 4 years of GM'ing, he's exactly where he started but with less prospect, less picks, and a maxed cap.

bUt ChUcK hAs BaD lUcK : (

Maybe we should give him credit for an incredible one-year patch job on a sinking ship?

 

[freakydallas13]

Hextall's team is third worst in the conference but made the playoffs every other year: "That team was HORRIBLE, Hextall RUINED this team"

Chuck's team is third worst in the conference and made the playoffs once in 4 years: "I like where this team is at. Don't be mean to Chuck, he just has bad luck ):"

Pathetic.

 

[deadhead]

Oh Chuckie didn't help matters, he was in over his head and had no idea how to salvage the situation.

He overpaid for Hayes, but Hextall overpaid JVR and gave Voracek a bad contract.

Getting Risto b/c you want to be physical for the playoffs when you're not close to being a playoff team is a bit laughable. Then not trading him and recouping the 1st at the TDL . . .

Getting rid of Ghost wasn't a problem, he was a negative asset at the time and a marginal asset at this TDL.
Paying to get rid of Ghost was the problem.
Gambling on TDA wasn't the problem, overpaying to gamble on TDA was.
Adding Deslauriers wasn't the problem, overpaying was. On a 1 year deal, he'd been a good TDL asset.
Failing to get a 4th for JVR is more bad optics than a real issue.
He did get a 3rd for Braun, 4th for Brassard, 5th for MacEwen and 6th for Brown.

Fortunately, he got good value for G, unless Florida implodes we'll have their 2024 1st which could be in the teens or early 20s, and Tippett looks like a potential top 6 RW.

 

[freakydallas13]

Think about it: A team's best players should be in their mid-twenties.

Who is responsible for the group of players in the Flyers' mid-twenties?


Maybe we should give him credit for an incredible one-year patch job on a sinking ship?

A one year patch so incredible it made that awful team also make the playoffs 1.5 years before he got here.

Truly magical that Chuck. It only took a bunch of capspace and assets to make zero progress.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's been 4 years and 4 months. Almost every player has been signed to an extension or new contract. This is Chuck Fletcher's roster if you're even attempting to be honest.

 

[Rebels57]

It's been 4 years and 4 months. Almost every player has been signed to an extension or new contract. This is Chuck Fletcher's roster if you're even attempting to be honest.

When has that ever happened?

 

[Beef Invictus]

When you look at Fletcher in Minn, he's your basic mediocre, run of the mill GM, who can rebuild a bad team, but can't take a good team over the hump. Which is par for the course, there have been many worse, and many better. Holmgren had a similar record, taking over a more talented team, 2 100+ seasons, 99 points, snunk into the POs with 88, 94 and 95 point seasons. And left a mess behind him.

Comes here and has a good first season, then everything spirals downhill.

Which is why I think it's a lot more than Chuck, basically he was a run of the mill GM asked to perform miracles (make a 85-90 point team with limited resources into a top 8 team), and floundered when he tried.

There has also been a string of bad luck, Ghost had a series of injuries, Patrick was literally a head case, Lindblom got cancer. So an 85-90 point team due to attrition became a 80-85 point team. The rebuild should have started last spring, but the PTB wouldn't permit it, so Chuck is down to desperation moves and crossing your fingers.

I don't love Chuck, I just think he was put in a position to fail. Not sure a top GM could have made a big difference with this FO. For one thing, what GM after Hextall would have been granted the authority to determine team strategy or to make major moves without organizational signoff? It was a team with a rapidly closing window and a delusional FO.

Which is why I don't think a top candidate will come here unless they clean out the FO and grant him real authority.

He never did the bolded. He's not capable of rebuilding a bad team. He's never tried it. He's shown no notion of having the skills required.

The Flyers do not/did not have limited resources. That has got to be one of the most absurd lies you've told in Chuck's defense. Bad luck doesn't change the inherently bad process followed. Chuck was not in position to fail, but he made failure inevitable by his own mismanagement and terrible view of the game. Fletcher has been allowed to determine strategy after Hextall.

You say you don't love Chuck, but the web of lies you just spun in his defense fits a larger trend of defending and justifying every single thing about him. Nah, you adore him more than you care about the Flyers. You're more a Fletcher fan at this point than you are a Flyers fan. Hence why you don't mind his total destruction of the team.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And it starts at the top.

With the delusion that this was a good team that was one or two moves away from being a SC contender.

And the pattern has been the same since 2012, except for two years when Hextall had the flexibility to start a rebuild, before they pushed him to be "competitive."

Holmgren in 2018-19 could have hired an upcoming young GM, or even given Fletcher the mandate to finish the rebuild that Hextall started, then aborted under pressure. He chose option "C", hire Fletcher and tell him to make a mediocre team competitive while G was under contract (as if G was McDavid).

I think Fletcher has known it was hopeless since last January, when he talked about needing to add top young players and his boss comes out as says they're going to "aggressively reload."

Have you ever worked for an idiot? All you can do is shrug your shoulders, collect your paycheck and send out your resume - except Chuck knows the later isn't a viable option.

Clarke chose Fletcher. Please stop lying. They've been pretty open about that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, it's more like the Peter principle.

I think Fletcher would have been fine taking over a franchise where they're starved for the playoffs, and patiently building a competitive team over 3-4 years, like he did in Minny. He's fundamentally a "safe" GM, and given that sort of situation would probably make it work to the extent of building a team that would make the playoffs a few times and maybe make it to the second round. Which is what mediocre GMs do, the system is set up that way with the draft and salary cap.

This situation required a "miracle" GM, who could hustle the FO, make brilliant moves to add talent with limited resources, keep a low profile and not alienate the PTB. Good luck finding that guy, and why would he take this job in the first place?

That is not what happened. Stop lying all the time.

 

[Rebels57]

That is not what happened. Stop lying all the time.

As long as you keep replying, he'll keep lying.