Euro: Final: Italy vs England (Part 3)

[AB13]

The reason England cannot keep the ball in games of this stature is because of Southgate's 343 which allows the opposition to keep the ball. Kalvin Phillips arguably plays the single most difficult midfield role in football where he receives in a single pivot with high fullbacks and average players around him and he does that well. Rodri couldn't do this reliably for Manchester City for example. Declan Rice is also very good with the ball. He is virtually error prone and does dare to be progressive with the ball. I've only seen him have one bad game under a press and that was against Denmark in the semi's but he was great again in the final. England absolutely had the players to control games with the ball this tournament. When playing Soutgates 343 system England don't press aggressively enough to win the ball back and often minimize risk in possession.

 

[cgf]

The only thing is that Italy just did exactly this to great effect. But I suppose to make it happen somewhere like England you’d really need to change the manager

Oh, I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I think it is unlikely to. Italy, as you said, changed their manager before this evolution...and they went through a significant down period that I suspect made people more open to updating the way the NT played than they would've otherwise been.

England OTOH is going to keep Southgate for at least two more cycles because he is coming off of a semi & a Final.

 

[Shrimper]

2030 is going to South America. It's not coming to Europe

 

[Incubajerks]

This is from the attached Athletic article, not a good look for England, don't give them the 2030 WC. Lot's more information and specifics throughout the article. English football's day of embarrassment and why it has damaged the 2030 World Cup bid

• Thousands of people forcing their way into the stadium without tickets, some of them breaking through barricades and storming entrance gates reserved for disabled spectators
• Numerous stewards injured and being subjected to racial abuse as they tried to stop those forcing entry
• Fighting inside the stadium, with videos showing one England fan being kicked by others while lying on the ground
• England players’ family members being attacked and subjected to racial abuse, while others had to fight off efforts to have their tickets or phones snatched from their hands
• The VIP section so overrun with ticketless fans that some family members, including Italy coach Roberto Mancini’s son Andrea, had to sit on the steps because his allocated seat had been taken
• Numerous allegations of fans openly snorting cocaine
• Breaches of the COVID-19 checkpoints, allowing fans to enter the stadium without showing proof of a negative test, and the infiltration of the Italian supporters’ bio-secure “bubble”

Both Caressa and Bergomi on Sky said: I don't know what they are smoking but it is coming up to here and it is having an effect.

I laughed a lot

 

[cgf]

2030 is going to South America. It's not coming to Europe

It's still FIFA, they'll send it to the highest bidder like they always do.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Omg, this is perfect!

It's called a brand partnership. Do you think that Maguire woke up that morning and said "free tacos for everyone"? Jesus how naive are people..

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The reactions of this England team have been great, making me appreciate them more and more.

What I see is a team that is absolutely expert at managing social media accounts. They'd be wearing gold medals around their necks if there was a World Cup for that.

 

[Suiteness]

It's called a brand partnership. Do you think that Maguire woke up that morning and said "free tacos for everyone"? Jesus how naive are people..

Were you snorkeling in the Ko Muk islands for the past three days? Have you seen what other players from England have been tweeting about since the final?

 

[buddahsmoka1]

I like Declan Rice a lot. And he had a great tournament. I also have nothing against Phillips per se. I just don't see how a team that fields Mount as their go-to offensive midfielder is supposed to dominate the middle of the pitch against top national teams. Kane is great coming back and distributing the ball, but that's too much to ask from him all game. Maybe Mount grows into that role - he's still young - but I just don't see it. Where's the trequartista?

I'm not convinced that a change in formation and/or tactics instantly make Rice, Phillips, and Mount capable of dominating the middle of the pitch against top teams. Jorginho and Verratti were left to essentially do whatever they wanted for large portions of the final. I think France and Spain would also have their way with England in much the same manner if they had met. Do I think England have the horses to control of the middle of the pitch against lesser teams? Of course.

But there's a reason England relies on counterattacking and strong emphasis on the flanks for offense, it's because they have strength there.

 

[robertmac43]

What I see is a team that is absolutely expert at managing social media accounts. They'd be wearing gold medals around their necks if there was a World Cup for that.

Don't worry you have made your opinions on the matter clear....

 

[Live in the Now]

This is from the attached Athletic article, not a good look for England, don't give them the 2030 WC. Lot's more information and specifics throughout the article. English football's day of embarrassment and why it has damaged the 2030 World Cup bid

• Thousands of people forcing their way into the stadium without tickets, some of them breaking through barricades and storming entrance gates reserved for disabled spectators
• Numerous stewards injured and being subjected to racial abuse as they tried to stop those forcing entry
• Fighting inside the stadium, with videos showing one England fan being kicked by others while lying on the ground
• England players’ family members being attacked and subjected to racial abuse, while others had to fight off efforts to have their tickets or phones snatched from their hands
• The VIP section so overrun with ticketless fans that some family members, including Italy coach Roberto Mancini’s son Andrea, had to sit on the steps because his allocated seat had been taken
• Numerous allegations of fans openly snorting cocaine
• Breaches of the COVID-19 checkpoints, allowing fans to enter the stadium without showing proof of a negative test, and the infiltration of the Italian supporters’ bio-secure “bubble”

They shouldn't get any tournament period. You can't have them somewhere that happens.

 

[Ceremony]

I'm still just so happy.

 

[cgf]

I like Declan Rice a lot. And he had a great tournament. I also have nothing against Phillips per se. I just don't see how a team that fields Mount as their go-to offensive midfielder is supposed to dominate the middle of the pitch against top national teams. Kane is great coming back and distributing the ball, but that's too much to ask from him all game. Maybe Mount grows into that role - he's still young - but I just don't see it. Where's the trequartista?

I'm not convinced that a change in formation and/or tactics instantly make Rice, Phillips, and Mount capable of dominating the middle of the pitch against top teams. Jorginho and Verratti were left to essentially do whatever they wanted for large portions of the final. I think France and Spain would also have their way with England in much the same manner if they had met. Do I think England have the horses to control of the middle of the pitch against lesser teams? Of course.

But there's a reason England relies on counterattacking and strong emphasis on the flanks for offense, it's because they have strength there.

Mount certainly isn't as creative as you'd want from a classic 10, but that's why I don't think he should be groomed for that role. He should be groomed for more of an 8 role that capitalizes on his pressing & ball retention strengths...which is why I had him competing with Saka & Bellingham for that spot moving forward...with a more creative partner joining him in front of Rice, like Foden.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I'm still just so happy.

Scotland living vicariously through the achievements of others since..[insert year of choice].

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Mount certainly isn't as creative as you'd want from a classic 10, but that's why I don't think he should be groomed for that role. He should be groomed for more of an 8 role that capitalizes on his pressing & ball retention strengths...which is why I had him competing with Saka & Bellingham for that spot moving forward...with a more creative partner joining him in front of Rice, like Foden.

England never has a shortage of players that can make things happen, they always have a shortage of players that can decide what to make happen when and where.

 

[Ceremony]

Scotland living vicariously through the achievements of others since..[insert year of choice].

I'd rather this than some of the takes you're posting in this thread tbqh

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I'd rather this than some of the takes you're posting in this thread tbqh

That's your prerogative. Not sure what kind of rebuttal that is or why anyone should care what you'd rather do though.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

This is from the attached Athletic article, not a good look for England, don't give them the 2030 WC. Lot's more information and specifics throughout the article. English football's day of embarrassment and why it has damaged the 2030 World Cup bid

• Thousands of people forcing their way into the stadium without tickets, some of them breaking through barricades and storming entrance gates reserved for disabled spectators
• Numerous stewards injured and being subjected to racial abuse as they tried to stop those forcing entry
• Fighting inside the stadium, with videos showing one England fan being kicked by others while lying on the ground
• England players’ family members being attacked and subjected to racial abuse, while others had to fight off efforts to have their tickets or phones snatched from their hands
• The VIP section so overrun with ticketless fans that some family members, including Italy coach Roberto Mancini’s son Andrea, had to sit on the steps because his allocated seat had been taken
• Numerous allegations of fans openly snorting cocaine
• Breaches of the COVID-19 checkpoints, allowing fans to enter the stadium without showing proof of a negative test, and the infiltration of the Italian supporters’ bio-secure “bubble”

Jesus. It sucks for the vast majority of England fans (those that are not f***ing neanderthals) that a few thousand people could potentially ruin a WC bid for their country. But honestly, if you were on the committee for the WC, would you vote England in after this catastrophe? I'm sure it will come down to money like it always does, but holy hell.

The almost complete lack of security presence and order around the final speaks for itself. Absolute joke. Did they even try to execute this properly?

They shouldn't get any tournament period. You can't have them somewhere that happens.

I don't want to agree with you but I have to.

 

[robertmac43]

But honestly, if you were on the committee for the WC, would you vote England in after this catastrophe? I'm sure it will come down to money like it always does, but holy hell.

I would definitely not support an England bid. The issue is those who have the decision power have questionable moral compasses for these kinds of things.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The security lapses around the Final should be by far the biggest non-football story around it. It's inexcusable and someone high up needs to get sacked over it.

 

[KJS14]

I would definitely not support an England bid. The issue is those who have the decision power have questionable moral compasses for these kinds of things.

FIFA's "moral compass"

 

[Incubajerks]

Gigio, Di Lo, Leo, Giorgio, Spina [laughs], Emerson, Giorgio, Marco, Bare, Ciro, Lorenzo and Federico. So, I have nothing to say. You know what you are and we are not here by chance. We are the masters of our fate, not the ref, not the opponents, nobody else, OK? You know what you have to do.

 

[N o o d l e s]

The security lapses around the Final should be by far the biggest non-football story around it. It's inexcusable and someone high up needs to get sacked over it.

f***ing thousands of police for a mid week premier league match and they left low salary stewards to handle this? A total joke

 

[Rob]

This is from the attached Athletic article, not a good look for England, don't give them the 2030 WC. Lot's more information and specifics throughout the article. English football's day of embarrassment and why it has damaged the 2030 World Cup bid

• Thousands of people forcing their way into the stadium without tickets, some of them breaking through barricades and storming entrance gates reserved for disabled spectators
• Numerous stewards injured and being subjected to racial abuse as they tried to stop those forcing entry
• Fighting inside the stadium, with videos showing one England fan being kicked by others while lying on the ground
• England players’ family members being attacked and subjected to racial abuse, while others had to fight off efforts to have their tickets or phones snatched from their hands
• The VIP section so overrun with ticketless fans that some family members, including Italy coach Roberto Mancini’s son Andrea, had to sit on the steps because his allocated seat had been taken
• Numerous allegations of fans openly snorting cocaine
• Breaches of the COVID-19 checkpoints, allowing fans to enter the stadium without showing proof of a negative test, and the infiltration of the Italian supporters’ bio-secure “bubble”

The one thing I will say in England's defense is that there is no evidence of Italians being attacked. There are several videos of English fans fighting each other which have been miscaptioned as assaults on Italian fans.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

f***ing thousands of police for a mid week premier league match and they left low salary stewards to handle this? A total joke

The police keep saying they had asked people without tickets not to travel to Wembley as if that somehow serves as a blanket excuse for a law enforcement agency. "Gee those dastardly louts rudely ignored our request...we shall write a harshly worded letter of protest!"