FINA restricts transgender swimmers in elite women's events

[Fatass]

Anyone who identifies as a female should be allowed to compete in the female competitions. Don’t like it? Too bad, life is not fair.

I think we (most people) want fair and SAFE sports for everyone to participate. In no world is a man (who identifies as a woman) going to not have physical advantages that make his participation in women sports unfair, and in some circumstances unsafe. When we simply compare the best results for men in sport v women it’s obvious (and common sense) why women have their own competitions.

 

[Albatros]

So you disagree that around age 12, the surge of testosterone isn't a competitive advantage of being a male?

XY women often also have very high testosterone levels (Caster Semenya being perhaps the most famous case of dispute). If you see this as an issue then you should rather be in favor of restrictions based on testosterone levels rather than particular gender identity traits.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Cool, so what do you do with female athletes who have XY chromosomes?

Is that an answer to my question or a statement?

 

[Pink Mist]

Is that an answer to my question or a statement?

Its a question because sex is a lot more complex than the genitals on one's body or their hormones

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

If you see this as an issue then you should rather be in favor of restrictions based on testosterone levels rather than particular gender identity traits.

No I shouldn't be in favor of restrictions based on CURRENT test. levels. That's the entire point of this ruling they made.

They have concluded that the muscle mass and other physiological traits achieved by male puberty outweighs any current hormone levels. You don't have to like it, but that's indeed based in science.

 

[Jets4Life]

XY women often also have very high testosterone levels (Caster Semenya being perhaps the most famous case of dispute). If you see this as an issue then you should rather be in favor of restrictions based on testosterone levels rather than particular gender identity traits.

Caster Semenya was technically born female, so that is for a different debate, and is just moving the goal posts. The ban is in regards to biological males competing in Women's sports.

 

[Taluss]

It’s a tough situation but I agree with the decision.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Its a question because sex is a lot more complex than the genitals on one's body or their hormones

Well now you're getting into a different debate.

You are either born male or female (obviously some exceptions to this). Those are your genitals and sex when born.

People can obviously identify with the opposite gender as their body develops/different hormones kick in/etc.

But on day 1, your sex is established (again I note the exceptions below)
The number of births with ambiguous genitals is in the range of 0.02% to 0.05%. Other conditions involve atypical chromosomes, gonads, or hormones.

 

[Pink Mist]

Well now you're getting into a different debate.

You are either born male or female (obviously some exceptions to this). Those are your genitals and sex when born.

People can obviously identify with the opposite gender as their body develops/different hormones kick in/etc.

But on day 1, your sex is established (again I note the exceptions below)
The number of births with ambiguous genitals is in the range of 0.02% to 0.05%. Other conditions involve atypical chromosomes, gonads, or hormones.

There's many examples of intersex athletes, the estimates of prevalence of someone being born intersex is upwards of 1% depending on the definition of intersex (ambiguous gentials being just one definition).

It's the same debate. If you think someone has a biological advantage due to their sex and thats a reason they can't compete in the sport, what do you do about XY women? This isn't a theoretical debate, there have been many cases of this in elite sports

 

[Albatros]

No I shouldn't be in favor of restrictions based on CURRENT test. levels. That's the entire point of this ruling they made.

They have concluded that the muscle mass and other physiological traits achieved by male puberty outweighs any current hormone levels. You don't have to like it, but that's indeed based in science.

Again, these are features true also for many cisgender XY women and do not disqualify them.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Those female athletes you say welcome it should be careful what they wish for since while they identify biologically as a woman, for a small percentage of them their chromosomes tell a different story. As we've seen historically when they had chromosome testing in sports

Okay, well I guess that very small percentage will have a reckoning as well. That's an almost irrelevant sidebar to this discussion though.

 

[Albatros]

It's not like women's sports are or would ever be full of transgender XY women either, this whole affair was launched by one UPenn student athlete. Swimming the US short course mind you, which is not even recognized by the FINA to start with.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

There's many examples of intersex athletes, the estimates of prevalence of someone being born intersex is upwards of 1% depending on the definition of intersex (ambiguous gentials being just one definition).

It's the same debate. If you think someone has a biological advantage due to their sex and thats a reason they can't compete in the sport, what do you do about XY women? This isn't a theoretical debate, there have been many cases of this in elite sports

Define "women". Because your XY chromosome qualifier makes that definition muddy.

And this governing body has not made mention of chromosomes and that is not a condition of whether a person is prohibited or not.

 

[BMacLeafs]

If sport eliminated men's/women's classes, there would never again be a female medal winner in any sport. No women would win, or come close to medalling in Olympics, World Championships, etc. As for team sports, the top leagues would still be composed 100% of men. Women would be relegated to Tier 4 leagues.

Nice try. There are no differences between men and womxn and it has been proven that a person's gender can change multiple times during life.

 

[Jets4Life]

Nice try. There are no differences between men and womxn and it has been proven that a person's gender can change multiple times during life.

The NHL allows woman to play in the league if they are talented enough. Why has there never been a legitimate woman hockey player in over 100 years of the NHL?

Edit...whoosh....

I was on break at work, and that one flew over my head lol.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

I use to identify as a cheeto

then I realized that it wouldn't be fair for the cheeta

so I decided to distance myself from the feline by stating that I identify as a Crunchy Corn Puff

then Corn Pops got mad at me

i explained to Corn Pops the clear difference between Puff and Pops and the complete disregard Corn Pops has for Corn Ma (on top of that), but because we are all equal they didn't like my description as a Puff

they even created a blog to denounce me as some fake

so i decided that i should go back to self identify as a Cheeto and screw the Cheetas

but the Cheetas then formed an organization for Felines Without Genders

which confused me, because it had no impact on my cheesiness

Yet the cheese industry counter-argued that if i don't need to self refrigerate, how in the hell can i proclaim I'm cheesy?

Now this is the part that got me mad, because I sure do smell like cheese, and walk like a cheese, just cause i enjoy the sun every now and then, why cant they just accept me for who I am???

so on my latest tax form, of course no place to identify yourself as Cheeto, i wrote next to male female CHEETO! with an exclamation point to boot

they rejected my tax form...

I then went on tour to promote myself - haven't sold many tickets so i cancelled the tour

Then i remembered that latinos and latinas are LatinX

and hence, Cheet-X was born

I am now Cheet-X (as of this week)

thank you for those that stayed with me through this story

signed Cheet-X

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Nice try. There are no differences between men and womxn and it has been proven that a person's gender can change multiple times during life.

What?