FIFA World Cup: Most prestigious trophy to win?

[Ivan13]

Every penalty shootout has a huge amount of luck. Are you new to football?
Did Modric's penalty that hit goalie+post+crossbar was pure technique?

Please. I don't mind saying France lucked in winning penalty shootouts against Brazil in 86 or Italy in 98 for instance.

There's no such thing as luck. The goalie didn't get enough of it, that's it.

 

[Evilo]

Ha... OK.
If you say so...

 

[Evilo]

So I guess Trezeguet hitting the post in the only missed penalty in the 06 final means Italy were the better team.
Or 6 years earlier, the italian player hitting the crossbar means France had zero luck in beating Italy.
That Brazil 94 needed no luck to beat Italy.
That Colombia had less technical players than England to lose in the SO.

Etc, etc, etc...

 

[member 305909]

Penalty shoot-out is half luck, half control of nerves. It is no co-incidence that up until this tournament England always lost. Do you remember the shoot-out in 2006 when, was it Gerrard not sure, had his turn and he took the ball to the spot and kicked it into the net and celebrated but he hadn't waited for the whistle from the ref to allow him to go ahead. Of course he had to take it again and when he actually took it he failed.

That is a sign of a very poor nerve-control.

 

[koyvoo]

Luigi DiBaggio missed his kick in 98. That...was a boring game. Lol.

 

[Eisen]

There's no such thing as luck. The goalie didn't get enough of it, that's it.

No goalie can plan to parry a shot in the PK. He decides where to jump. If the kick is not perfect, and often it isn't, the goalie still has no 100% chance if he jumps the wrong corner. A goal like Modric's penalty was not planned, it was luck.

 

[koyvoo]

Penalty shoot-out is half luck, half control of nerves. It is no co-incidence that up until this tournament England always lost. Do you remember the shoot-out in 2006 when, was it Gerrard not sure, had his turn and he took the ball to the spot and kicked it into the net and celebrated but he hadn't waited for the whistle from the ref to allow him to go ahead. Of course he had to take it again and when he actually took it he failed.

That is a sign of a very poor nerve-control.

That was Carragher with the re-take in 06. That was epic because it was Portugal, and Portugal and keeper Ricardo beat England on pens two years prior. Ricardo made clean saves on Lampard, Gerrard and Carragher. Steven Gerrard was literally white as ghost before his kick. You could see the nervousness/doubt in him.

 

[Ivan13]

So I guess Trezeguet hitting the post in the only missed penalty in the 06 final means Italy were the better team.
Or 6 years earlier, the italian player hitting the crossbar means France had zero luck in beating Italy.
That Brazil 94 needed no luck to beat Italy.
That Colombia had less technical players than England to lose in the SO.

Etc, etc, etc...

It doesn't, but not surprised you are flying off the handle the moment someone disagrees with you. WTF is lucky in a guy missing the net from a spot kick? If we can call that luck then everything is luck. Like I said before, luck is a made up concept devised by losers to downplay their failings.

And if we play the luck card then France is insanely lucky to beat us yesterday, first the ref was dumb enough to fall for a dive (yes it was a dive as seen below), then Mandžo "unluckily" directs the ball into his own net, then the "unlucky" penalty, then the unlucky bounce from Umtiti's knee in a corner rather than net, then the unlucky Lloris save on Rebić, because if Rebić was just lucky enough to get the ball an inch higher .... However, all that has nothing to do with luck, just a mix of incompetence, misplayed set pieces, amazing save by Lloris etc. Blaming luck is loser's cop-out.

 

[Evilo]

Watch the replay to convince yourself. Griez's right foot slips and while he starts to fall, Brozovic comes in and hits his left foot. That's not a dive. Weak call because the foul happenned after Griez's slip, but not a dive.
Remember you said Brozovic didn't even touch him. You said it at least twice IIRC. That's just refusing to see the reality. Brozovic hit Griez's foot. No doubt about it.

And FYI, other posters have said France was lucky, insisting that Croatia winning two PK shootout in a row is in fact an argument in favor of France's luck.
Which I responded by saying Croatia winning two PK shootouts in a row was also luck, even though it wasn't to be taken away from them.

But whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Watch the replay to convince yourself. Griez's right foot slips and while he starts to fall, Brozovic comes in and hits his left foot. That's not a dive. Weak call because the foul happenned after Griez's slip, but not a dive.
Remember you said Brozovic didn't even touch him. You said it at least twice IIRC. That's just refusing to see the reality. Brozovic hit Griez's foot. No doubt about it.

And FYI, other posters have said France was lucky, insisting that Croatia winning two PK shootout in a row is in fact an argument in favor of France's luck.
Which I responded by saying Croatia winning two PK shootouts in a row was also luck, even though it wasn't to be taken away from them.

But whatever helps you sleep at night.

Should a free kick have been awarded because Griez "slipped"?

Or was that just "luck" that the ref actually mistook his slip for a foul? Griezmann obviously sold it as if he'd been fouled, and chose not to correct the ref once the free kick was awarded. To hell with fair play, right? This is the guy who did the mocking, "take the L" dance, right in front of the Croatian supporters after scoring a penalty later on.

Blemish on an otherwise masterful performance by the French, I'd say. Rest of the team showed class.

 

[Ivan13]

Watch the replay to convince yourself. Griez's right foot slips and while he starts to fall, Brozovic comes in and hits his left foot. That's not a dive. Weak call because the foul happenned after Griez's slip, but not a dive.
Remember you said Brozovic didn't even touch him. You said it at least twice IIRC. That's just refusing to see the reality. Brozovic hit Griez's foot. No doubt about it.

And FYI, other posters have said France was lucky, insisting that Croatia winning two PK shootout in a row is in fact an argument in favor of France's luck.
Which I responded by saying Croatia winning two PK shootouts in a row was also luck, even though it wasn't to be taken away from them.

But whatever helps you sleep at night.

It doesn't help me with anything as it changes nothing. Brozović doesn't touch him until he is on the ground, the point is that Griezman took himself out of the play by falling which caused the collision. Speaking of sleeping better, slipped?

 

[member 305909]

No South-Americans here to answer my question? post #18

 

[Evilo]

Should a free kick have been awarded because Griez "slipped"?

Or was that just "luck" that the ref actually mistook his slip for a foul? Griezmann obviously sold it as if he'd been fouled, and chose not to correct the ref once the free kick was awarded. To hell with fair play, right? This is the guy who did the mocking, "take the L" dance, right in front of the Croatian supporters after scoring a penalty later on.

Blemish on an otherwise masterful performance by the French, I'd say. Rest of the team showed class.

No, I'm refering to the dive part. maybe you missed it.
Oh he should have corrected the ref... You're such a joke.

 

[Evilo]

It doesn't help me with anything as it changes nothing. Brozović doesn't touch him until he is on the ground, the point is that Griezman took himself out of the play by falling which caused the collision. Speaking of sleeping better, slipped?

Yes, his right foot slipped.
And now you say he didn't touch him before he was on the ground. Well, that's still not true.

 

[Dr Pepper]

No, I'm refering to the dive part. maybe you missed it.
Oh he should have corrected the ref... You're such a joke.

Right, because that's never happened in the history of football.....oh wait, yes it has.

Probably not on the grandest stage of them all, though, so of course Griezmann isn't going to take the high road, and if the ref makes the mistake of awarding a free kick where there shouldn't be one, that's on him I guess. Lucky for Griezmann he was able to capitalize on the error and it ended up in the Croatian net moments later.

This isn't sour grapes or anything, by the way, as I said before I'm glad they won since it turned out to be a profitable event for me. My only gripe is with Griezmann, first for the "slip" that he sold as a foul, and again later for that obnoxious "L" dance he did in front of the Croatian supporters.

If the roles were reversed, and Modric had done that stupid dance prior to a Croatian win, you'd have been livid and rightfully so.

 

[Havre]

Did I just open the wrong thread?

 

[Evilo]

Right, because that's never happened in the history of football.....oh wait, yes it has.

Probably not on the grandest stage of them all, though, so of course Griezmann isn't going to take the high road, and if the ref makes the mistake of awarding a free kick where there shouldn't be one, that's on him I guess. Lucky for Griezmann he was able to capitalize on the error and it ended up in the Croatian net moments later.

This isn't sour grapes or anything, by the way, as I said before I'm glad they won since it turned out to be a profitable event for me. My only gripe is with Griezmann, first for the "slip" that he sold as a foul, and again later for that obnoxious "L" dance he did in front of the Croatian supporters.

If the roles were reversed, and Modric had done that stupid dance prior to a Croatian win, you'd have been livid and rightfully so.

I've criticized this celebration for months. No need to convince him. I also said many times Griez was an idiot.

But to think ANY player would tell the ref "no, please I slipped, guy touched me as I was falling down, don't call it" on a dangerous set play in a World Cup final... seriously... how can you come up with these things?

 

[Dr Pepper]

I've criticized this celebration for months. No need to convince him. I also said many times Griez was an idiot.

But to think ANY player would tell the ref "no, please I slipped, guy touched me as I was falling down, don't call it" on a dangerous set play in a World Cup final... seriously... how can you come up with these things?

I'm glad we can at least agree it's a moronic dance by Griezmann that has no place at the World Cup. Similar to Neymar it's juvenile actions like that, that can take away from his actual skill on the pitch.

As for the second point, like I said earlier it's unlikely to ever happen in a World Cup final, but it's happened before where a player slipped in the box and after the ref calls a penalty, the player chooses to take the high road and show good sportsmanship in correcting him. Probably just during league play or in a friendly. Would've been cool to see yesterday but considering the maturity level of Griezmann I obviously wasn't expecting it.

 

[Evilo]

Not a single player on either team would have refused the set play. Not one. And I hardly blame them.

 

[CharlesPuck]

It doesn't, but not surprised you are flying off the handle the moment someone disagrees with you. WTF is lucky in a guy missing the net from a spot kick? If we can call that luck then everything is luck. Like I said before, luck is a made up concept devised by losers to downplay their failings.

And if we play the luck card then France is insanely lucky to beat us yesterday, first the ref was dumb enough to fall for a dive (yes it was a dive as seen below), then Mandžo "unluckily" directs the ball into his own net, then the "unlucky" penalty, then the unlucky bounce from Umtiti's knee in a corner rather than net, then the unlucky Lloris save on Rebić, because if Rebić was just lucky enough to get the ball an inch higher .... However, all that has nothing to do with luck, just a mix of incompetence, misplayed set pieces, amazing save by Lloris etc. Blaming luck is loser's cop-out.

It's also pretty LUCKY you remove the screenshot where he hits Griezmans leg. hahaha

 

[JeffreyLFC]

France won it all and they came from far harder side of the play off tree. Who was better team than France then?

from my view Brazil was the best team of the tournament. They should have beat Belgium if not for bad luck and I have little doubt they would have beat France too.

Again it's pure speculation but France has got timely goal and timely save which is why I labelled them opportunistic.

Like in the final at the first half a 1-1 score based on stats and possesion would have been amazing score for France but no... they were actually leading 2-1 with one shot on target which was a penalty

 

[Harry22]

Watch the replay to convince yourself. Griez's right foot slips and while he starts to fall, Brozovic comes in and hits his left foot. That's not a dive. Weak call because the foul happenned after Griez's slip, but not a dive.
Remember you said Brozovic didn't even touch him. You said it at least twice IIRC. That's just refusing to see the reality. Brozovic hit Griez's foot. No doubt about it.

And FYI, other posters have said France was lucky, insisting that Croatia winning two PK shootout in a row is in fact an argument in favor of France's luck.
Which I responded by saying Croatia winning two PK shootouts in a row was also luck, even though it wasn't to be taken away from them.

But whatever helps you sleep at night.

France adding a star makes me sleep better

 

[Suiteness]

from my view Brazil was the best team of the tournament. They should have beat Belgium if not for bad luck and I have little doubt they would have beat France too.

I'm not sure about that. Marcelo plays on the left, which means he's on the opposite side of Mbappé. If Lukaku was able to tear Brazil apart on that side, imagine what Mbappé would do?

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I'm not sure about that. Marcelo plays on the left, which means he's on the opposite side of Mbappé. If Lukaku was able to tear Brazil apart on that side, imagine what Mbappé would do?

I did not see Lukaku tearing apart the left side of the defense at all. I remember only one chance from him on the left side which lead to nothing. He did great on the De Bruyne goal but it was Fernandinho letting the middle wide open and not Marcelo and/or Miranda to blame.

Brazil could have score 6 goals in that game but were unlucky and not opportunistic.

 

[Evilo]

from my view Brazil was the best team of the tournament. They should have beat Belgium if not for bad luck and I have little doubt they would have beat France too.

Again it's pure speculation but France has got timely goal and timely save which is why I labelled them opportunistic.

Like in the final at the first half a 1-1 score based on stats and possesion would have been amazing score for France but no... they were actually leading 2-1 with one shot on target which was a penalty

Brazil never beats France in WC. Doubt this rather weak Brazil squad can beat this extremely tough to crack french defense.