TSN: Ferraro speaks stone cold truth about oilers on radio

[bucks_oil]

Kevin Lowe hired and fired Steve Tambelllini and has the man at the top is totally responsible for their and thus the teams performance.

Kevin Lowe hired MacT he is totally responsible for MacT's performance and thus the teams.

You simply can't remove Kevin Lowe from the organization and the accountability that goes along with it. You are into quoting things about the corporate world. The CEO is responsible for the performance of the company. He hires the managers who hire other people. He is part of the strategy of the company, if it fails badly the buck stops with him.

In my analogy to the corporate world, Lowe is the chairman. MacT is the current CEO and Katz is the owner/shareholder.

Chairman's job is to hire the CEO/GM.... and to fire him when the results are crap. Did Lowe do that? Yes.

Do I hold Steve Jobs (RIP)/Tim Cook or Art Levinson responsible for Apple's stock performance? If Apple crashes am I going to blame Cook. If it's still falling and Cook is still CEO, then yeah... I'd have a valid beef with Art (if I thought cook was the problem).

From that perspective Lowe has done what was expected of him in his role. You have to look at Tambo. We'll have to look at MacT. They are ultimately responsible for the on ice product.

Now Lowe... he's responsible for MacT and for representing the company in a positive manner in the public eye. I'd argue you have a much stronger argument for his removal if you begin and end with the way in which he's done the latter this year...

 

[bucks_oil]

Perron is already more of an impact player than anyone Tambellini brought in through trade or FA (well except for a short burst from Whitney, and that required an impact player to be traded in return), and he was acquired by trading a young player with upside who wasn't part of the core. We have other players like that. To be fair, most are more prospect than PRV was, but hopefully some start to break in and become viable trade chips. Also, draft picks have value.

Plus, Gordon, Hendricks, Ference, Gazdik, Belov and Scrivens also look like they may be able to part of the solution and so I don't see how anyone can argue that MacT hasn't improved the roster on paper. The results are obviously not there, and maybe that is due to coaching (MacT's fault), but that still needs to be determined.

I don't mind giving him his three years. Maybe you feel different, and I can understand that, but I don't think it is unreasonable to give MacT some time.

Agree... good post.

 

[I am the Liquor]

I agree that Tambellini actually did a good job accomplishing his mandate (tanking/restocking the system), and I don't know if he got a fair chance to move to the next phase. Still, I don't think it is so simple to say that it was all Lowe's fault - our drafting/developing were awful for a long time before Lowe became GM. That said, the rebuild should have started earlier, no question - although it is much easier to be sure of that in hindsight.

As far as MacT though - I think there are plenty of legit criticisms you could throw his way (although I think in balance he has been quite good so far), but that is a weak argument to avoid giving him credit for Perron. You could make similar qualifications for just about any good or bad move any GM makes.

Weak argument? We gave the Blues cap relief. They didnt get rid of Perron because he was garbage. They had to trim salary period. All things being equal they never would have made that trade if there were no cap constraints.

We did something similar with the Smid trade. Although in the Blues case they had players to pick up the slack for Perron. We certainly did not. That's because our gm is unqualified and incompetent and was hired because he was buddies with Lowe/Katz.

 

[Captain Catatomic]

Smid is the only incompetant one mentioned in ur post.

 

[oilinblood]

"...and we've gotta stop that Hitler guy."

Old news is old. I'm sincerely trying to salvage some optimism out of the remainder of the season. Despite the poorly run franchise, we've got several players who are trending towards career years. You don't hear a single breath from the Toronto media regarding that.

While I'm not personally going to chastise Ferraro over his comments, do we honestly need to hear the same **** over and over? It's truly sad that everyone just eats it up too.

This. I mean i am pissed off but i predicted this at the start of the year. I was one of the people that firmly believed that last year, despite a nice head start, we were the worst team in the league. I firmly believe had that season been 82 games we would have had last place tied up.

Then that last place team got put in a tougher division, hired a rookie head coach, and had their 20 year old top centre out recovering from shoulder surgery, then gagner got hurt, dubnyk looked like himself, and we put too much load on a guy like Gordon.

I am positive about the direction of the team for the first time in 4 years. I know 80%of the players in this legue will never come to edmonton. They would slit their wrists first... 70% would still never come here if we were winning cups year after year. I understand all of this...so i need to look at the realistoc options for this franchise.

I am liking the steady progress and MacT has some big choices to make.


I would suggest that boyd gordon, david perron, and andrew ference have delivered what they were supposed to ad have also added some bite.... In some cases they were our only bite. Now we got hendricks and scriv for a failure in dubnyk.
Ive been impressed immensely in hendricks, and i am sold on scrivens as at least a backup. He migh be a starter but that is a question of the load he can carry more than skill. I think this team can adapt to his rebounds and be better for it. No ne minds a goalie giving up rebounds if they are prepared system wise for that...and themgoalie recovers so fast. If te goalie has no agility...like doobie...than you are skrewerd.

I am excited. Id like to see STEVE OTT acquired.

 

[yukoner88]

Last years team was not a 30th place team. It was a below average team, that caught lightning in the bottle a month before the trade deadline. We all still saw the holes, and the line-up was going to need help to stay in the playoff picture, and the help we got was a terrible hockey player, who barely made Florida's line-up, in the weakest division at the time, with weak numbers (aside from decent face off numbers) and he ended up being nothing more than an anchor. We didn't have any size, or veteran leadership added to the team. That was Tambo's major test, and he failed miserably, and was shown the door.

Mact is now in, this team is still below avg, but headed in the right direction. And we'll see more changes this summer which hopefully will address the teams weaknesses even further. They may not be enough for us to see playoff hockey yet, but enough to for us to see the Oilers give every other team fits when they play against Edmonton, and atleast be in the hunt for fight for a playoff spot

 

[PerformanceMcOil]

Weak argument? We gave the Blues cap relief. They didnt get rid of Perron because he was garbage. They had to trim salary period. All things being equal they never would have made that trade if there were no cap constraints. .

So, if Perron had been garbage on St Louis, MacT would deserve credit for what - being lucky? Again, any player acquisition relies on one team giving up on a player, for a multitude of reasons. Maybe list a few good trades (by any GM), that do deserve credit, so I can understand what makes a good trade, and what is a 'fell in his lap' kinda trade.

Anyway yeah, the argument is weak. Do you honestly think it is persuasive enough to convince someone who does give MacT credit for the trade to do otherwise?

 

[Musashi]

Weak argument? We gave the Blues cap relief. They didnt get rid of Perron because he was garbage. They had to trim salary period. All things being equal they never would have made that trade if there were no cap constraints.

Nah I don't buy that. Perron was the odd man out in St. Louis. The only reason the Blues needed cap relief is because they already signed players like Roy to replace Perron. Perron struggled during the lockout year and I think the blues just preferred to move on to get his contract off the books and to look at other options. They sold him low and we benefited from it.

 

[Up the Irons]

Last years team was not a 30th place team. It was a below average team, that caught lightning in the bottle a month before the trade deadline. We all still saw the holes, and the line-up was going to need help to stay in the playoff picture, and the help we got was a terrible hockey player, who barely made Florida's line-up, in the weakest division at the time, with weak numbers (aside from decent face off numbers) and he ended up being nothing more than an anchor. We didn't have any size, or veteran leadership added to the team. That was Tambo's major test, and he failed miserably, and was shown the door.

Mact is now in, this team is still below avg, but headed in the right direction. And we'll see more changes this summer which hopefully will address the teams weaknesses even further. They may not be enough for us to see playoff hockey yet, but enough to for us to see the Oilers give every other team fits when they play against Edmonton, and atleast be in the hunt for fight for a playoff spot[/QUOTE]

I will believe that when I see it. they will not improve enough to be significantly better until they trade something value for something value. their big plan is to wait for Nurse, Klefbom and (they are hoping) Ekblad. is this good management? is it acceptable to just throw away next year (and probably the one after that)?

Next year will see 2 more rookie Dman on the roster and Gagner still here. top 5 pick next year in the bag, probably top 3.

 

[rboomercat90]

Yes, once again, that's what he said. "Panicked" doesn't preclude years and years of time passing before it happens.

Friedman said it's not something they wanted to do, or were planning on doing, but did so when they thought the public pressure was too much. Sounds like a panic move to me if that's the case.

What it sounds like to me is an owner that doesn't want to take his fan base for granted. In some markets the organization actually has to put some effort and work into convincing their fans to buy tickets. Not every owner has it as good as Katz does.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Nah I don't buy that. Perron was the odd man out in St. Louis. The only reason the Blues needed cap relief is because they already signed players like Roy to replace Perron. Perron struggled during the lockout year and I think the blues just preferred to move on to get his contract off the books and to look at other options. They sold him low and we benefited from it.

And the very best return they could get for him was Paajarvi and a pick right?

Do you really believe this?

Coincidentally they saved 2.6mill in cap space and are currently 1.6mill under the cap.

Hmmm....................

 

[I am the Liquor]

So, if Perron had been garbage on St Louis, MacT would deserve credit for what - being lucky? Again, any player acquisition relies on one team giving up on a player, for a multitude of reasons. Maybe list a few good trades (by any GM), that do deserve credit, so I can understand what makes a good trade, and what is a 'fell in his lap' kinda trade.

Anyway yeah, the argument is weak. Do you honestly think it is persuasive enough to convince someone who does give MacT credit for the trade to do otherwise?

I dont care what you choose to believe.

Im pointing out some facts. Do some research. Check out the contracts. Look at the cap space the Blues have. Do some simple math. They had to move someone who had significant dollars on their deal. And they had to get significantly less money coming back.

Pretending this is a straight up hockey trade/fleecing is disingenuous at best.

 

[Juxta Position]

I dont care what you choose to believe.

Im pointing out some facts. Do some research. Check out the contracts. Look at the cap space the Blues have. Do some simple math. They had to move someone who had significant dollars on their deal. And they had to get significantly less money coming back.

Pretending this is a straight up hockey trade/fleecing is disingenuous at best.

has the idea that Mact identified st.louis as a team in cap trouble crossed your mind?

you're stating that this trade fell in mact's lap and that he deserves no credit for the deal whatsoever, when you have absolutely no idea of the particulars of the trade. It's very possible (and quite likely) that mactavish targeted the blues specifically because they were in cap trouble, and identified perron as an asset the blues would be willing to part with.

pretending that mactavish deserves absolutely no credit for this trade is, as you put it, disingenuous at best.

 

[I am the Liquor]

has the idea that Mact identified st.louis as a team in cap trouble crossed your mind?

you're stating that this trade fell in mact's lap and that he deserves no credit for the deal whatsoever, when you have absolutely no idea of the particulars of the trade. It's very possible (and quite likely) that mactavish targeted the blues specifically because they were in cap trouble, and identified perron as an asset the blues would be willing to part with.

pretending that mactavish deserves absolutely no credit for this trade is, as you put it, disingenuous at best.

Yes, he targeted the Blues to waste assets on acquiring yet another small top six forward while ignoring obvious holes like goaltending, defense, size, grit and toughness, #2C. He ignores all of those holes and instead susses out a cap dump deal for something we have a surplus of.

With management like that, nobody will be able to keep us from getting McDavid.

 

[yukoner88]

I will believe that when I see it. they will not improve enough to be significantly better until they trade something value for something value. their big plan is to wait for Nurse, Klefbom and (they are hoping) Ekblad. is this good management? is it acceptable to just throw away next year (and probably the one after that)?

Next year will see 2 more rookie Dman on the roster and Gagner still here. top 5 pick next year in the bag, probably top 3.

You should go take a peak at capgeek and see how many nhl quality defensemen are set to be ufas on July 1st. There might be a few that get re-signed to their respective teams, but its definitely going to be a buyers market so I highly doubt that either Klefbom or Nurse will be permanent fixtures on the team next season. Nurse can have a cup of coffee in the first week of Oct then go back to junior and get himself on the World Junior team, Klefbom and be the guy we call up when there's an injury.

You've seen how active Mact has been signing guys last summer, and making small trades to make our bottom 6 a little tougher to play against. To think Mact will just sit on his hands next summer is a bit ridiculous I think, as he's been to most active GM since getting the job.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

Yes, he targeted the Blues to waste assets on acquiring yet another small top six forward while ignoring obvious holes like goaltending, defense, size, grit and toughness, #2C. He ignores all of those holes and instead susses out a cap dump deal for something we have a surplus of.

With management like that, nobody will be able to keep us from getting McDavid.

Its so funny to read comments on this board look at a team like Boston (Bergeron, Krejci); relatively small guys, Chicago (Sharp, Kane, Versteeg) Detroit (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and incoming list that goes on)

This is why logic of Oiler fan's is Pejorative Slured, Do people remember the days of Chimera, Swanson (guys with speed, agility, no skill) or before that Winchester, Isibister, Lacatoure - big guys, gritty, no speed, no skill

Everyone will always look at other teams and create illogical correlations. Like if only we had a big power forward like Getzlaf, Carter, Nash. This team had a big power forward = lazy (P_nn_r); fill in the name if you remember who it was. This team wants to chase Stewart from St. Louis have fun.

They've had piles of guys with speed (Cogliano, Gagner, Nillsson, Omark)

Maybe this team should first of all identify players in this category

a) hockey smarts; no where to be on the ice at all times, visualize your next move when you have the puck
b) skill - (not Robby Schremp skill where you can throw a puck around over the place. Skill as in know how to make breakout passes, create plays,
c) speed (you need the first, two absolutely but you need to have that and play at the NHL level with this next requirement
d) size (size is only effective when you have a couple of the above, or else your a grinder, or a pugilist)

 

[I am the Liquor]

Its so funny to read comments on this board look at a team like Boston (Bergeron, Krejci); relatively small guys, Chicago (Sharp, Kane, Versteeg) Detroit (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and incoming list that goes on)

Bergeron isnt small. Where's our Chara? Who is our Lucic? Where's our Seabrook? Bickell? Byfuglien? Detroit isnt even in a playoff spot in the EC. And even when they were good they had some beef in their lineup.

This is why logic of Oiler fan's is Pejorative Slured, Do people remember the days of Chimera, Swanson (guys with speed, agility, no skill) or before that Winchester, Isibister, Lacatoure - big guys, gritty, no speed, no skill

Do you remember the last few years? The no speed, no skill teams of the nineties would walk all over our current collection of toe draggers and poke checkers. This team needs balance, not just one type of player exclusively.

Everyone will always look at other teams and create illogical correlations. Like if only we had a big power forward like Getzlaf, Carter, Nash. This team had a big power forward = lazy (P_nn_r); fill in the name if you remember who it was. This team wants to chase Stewart from St. Louis have fun.

Well, its hard to get excited about a 29th place team, which is what we are. If you think we can compete with the big heavy California teams as this team is currently constructed then you are sadly mistaken.

They've had piles of guys with speed (Cogliano, Gagner, Nillsson, Omark)

The two bolded are not fast. That leaves two guys. Does two constitute a pile?

Maybe this team should first of all identify players in this category

a) hockey smarts; no where to be on the ice at all times, visualize your next move when you have the puck
b) skill - (not Robby Schremp skill where you can throw a puck around over the place. Skill as in know how to make breakout passes, create plays,
c) speed (you need the first, two absolutely but you need to have that and play at the NHL level with this next requirement
d) size (size is only effective when you have a couple of the above, or else your a grinder, or a pugilist)

You say we should identify players in "this" category, then you go on to list four attributes, along with some confusing qualifiers that seem to say you need two, three or perhaps all of the above?

 

[PerformanceMcOil]

I dont care what you choose to believe.

Im pointing out some facts. Do some research. Check out the contracts. Look at the cap space the Blues have. Do some simple math. They had to move someone who had significant dollars on their deal. And they had to get significantly less money coming back.

Pretending this is a straight up hockey trade/fleecing is disingenuous at best.

Eh? I'm starting to think you have no interest in debate, and would rather just ***** about MacT. I never said anything about St. Louis' motivation. Nor did I say anything about fleecing. I said that I believe MacT deserves credit for acquiring a very useful player for one that was much less so. Again, every trade could have some kind of caveat attached to it - do you think that St. Louis only called Edmonton, and insisted that we take Perron or something?

 

[PerformanceMcOil]

Yes, he targeted the Blues to waste assets on acquiring yet another small top six forward while ignoring obvious holes like goaltending, defense, size, grit and toughness, #2C. He ignores all of those holes and instead susses out a cap dump deal for something we have a surplus of.

With management like that, nobody will be able to keep us from getting McDavid.

Now I know you have no interest in debating in good faith. It's one thing to claim that MacT deserves zero credit for acquiring Perron. To claim that acquiring a guy that will likely have over 30 goals this year (and hardly plays small), for two pretty average assets was a BAD move is just... wow. I'm sure any deal involving PRV and the 2nd for a D or G would be further along if Perron was included instead. It's not like we lost value here. But anyway, this is clearly a waste of time, since as you said, you don't care what other people think. You just want to push your bias on anyone who will listen.

 

[Beerfish]

Getting perron was a really good move........only if that means trading one of the other small skilled forwards or him for help elsewhere. If it just means adding another guy with a wee bit more grit thqt still gets steamrolled by the big teams then it is meaningless.

 

[McArthur]

Who do you replace Klowe, MacT with?

Someone with no experience? Someone from HFBoards?.

That's the only thing I agreed with Ray F. Who do you replace them with?

The Job is yours until I find someone better. I tell you if I was the owner of anything, I am going to trust my closest friends.

I'll do it! looking forward to the slop fest against Buffalo. I can't wait to see Tyler Myers on display. Would be nice to see line 1 against him a couple times to see what we are really missing in Edmonton.

 

[bleed_oil]

Getting perron was a really good move........only if that means trading one of the other small skilled forwards or him for help elsewhere. If it just means adding another guy with a wee bit more grit thqt still gets steamrolled by the big teams then it is meaningless.

Getting Perron was great. Mainly cause PRV was a steaming pile of junk. Perron is a good player, but the Oilers need a bigger guy than him playing that wing. Perron will occasionally mix if up, but the grit in his game is vastly overrated.

 

[McArthur]

Bergeron isnt small. Where's our Chara? Who is our Lucic? Where's our Seabrook? Bickell? Byfuglien? Detroit isnt even in a playoff spot in the EC. And even when they were good they had some beef in their lineup.

Zetterburg is huge, and I think Versteeg is 6'2"

Do you remember the last few years? The no speed, no skill teams of the nineties would walk all over our current collection of toe draggers and poke checkers. This team needs balance, not just one type of player exclusively.

in the 90's, one talented player was worth 3 of our gritty guys. but yes, we could use a forecheck that actually creates defensive mistakes in our ozone. a defense that can help contain our 3rd or 4th line wouldn't hurt.

Well, its hard to get excited about a 29th place team, which is what we are. If you think we can compete with the big heavy California teams as this team is currently constructed then you are sadly mistaken.

are you saying the game vs San Jose isn't always gonna be a winner?

The two bolded are not fast. That leaves two guys. Does two constitute a pile?

moreau... marchant... 90's teams played meat and potatoes hockey. I guess you look fast when your always dumping and chasing.

This team needs better mentors. Ray Whitney could be a feel good story...

 

[Up the Irons]

You should go take a peak at capgeek and see how many nhl quality defensemen are set to be ufas on July 1st. There might be a few that get re-signed to their respective teams, but its definitely going to be a buyers market so I highly doubt that either Klefbom or Nurse will be permanent fixtures on the team next season. Nurse can have a cup of coffee in the first week of Oct then go back to junior and get himself on the World Junior team, Klefbom and be the guy we call up when there's an injury.

You've seen how active Mact has been signing guys last summer, and making small trades to make our bottom 6 a little tougher to play against. To think Mact will just sit on his hands next summer is a bit ridiculous I think, as he's been to most active GM since getting the job.

Active, but not bold. Again, I will believe it when I see it. when Eberle or Yak or J. Schultz or Klefbom or this year's first is trade for a quality Dman, I will believe they want to be competitive for 2014-15.

Until then, AFAIC, they have written off the next 2 seasons.

GO RUSH GO!!!!

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Active, but not bold. Again, I will believe it when I see it. when Eberle or Yak or J. Schultz or Klefbom or this year's first is trade for a quality Dman, I will believe they want to be competitive for 2014-15.

Until then, AFAIC, they have written off the next 2 seasons.

GO RUSH GO!!!!

Nothing but the first will get you a quality d-man.