Ferraro on the Oilers: "Their model for building the team is clearly flawed."

[Pros and Cons]

10-4. their identified core is too large, and that fact has handcuffed them for now 3 years.

You are right, and I never realized that until just then when you wrote it. You described it perfectly "their identified core is too large".

 

[Halibut]

A lot of it was luck of the draft. Had the Oilers been basement dwellers a year or two earlier, we would have a Doughty, Pietrangelo, Hedman, or OEL to rebuild the team around. Such a caliber of defensemen were not available with the picks the Oilers had from 2008-2011.

Sure, that's exactly the point. So what do we do about it?

We are left with the problem that we dont have the pieces to be competitive and it looks like we're unlikely to get them anytime soon. Do we wait until the draft fills in the holes? If we do are we likely to get the pieces we need while we still control our top end forwards or should we start looking at trading away Hall, Eberle, RNH? We need top end defenders and unless at least two of Marincin, Klefbom, Nurse and Schultz develop into top pairing d-men (which looks very unlikely at this point) we're going to be weak on the back end. RNH might be a #1 center, Draisaitl hasnt shown anything yet so we're not looking good down the middle.

The scary thing is we're probably not getting a top pairing d-man even for our best guys. Our team play devalues even Taylor Hall. We could hope to trade him for Seth Jones + maybe but not a top guy playing in his prime. We're looking down the gun of starting over, rebuilding the rebuild which leaves us with a crappy team for who knows how many more years.

 

[Moose Coleman]

Sure, that's exactly the point. So what do we do about it?

We are left with the problem that we dont have the pieces to be competitive and it looks like we're unlikely to get them anytime soon. Do we wait until the draft fills in the holes? If we do are we likely to get the pieces we need while we still control our top end forwards or should we start looking at trading away Hall, Eberle, RNH? We need top end defenders and unless at least two of Marincin, Klefbom, Nurse and Schultz develop into top pairing d-men (which looks very unlikely at this point) we're going to be weak on the back end. RNH might be a #1 center, Draisaitl hasnt shown anything yet so we're not looking good down the middle.

The scary thing is we're probably not getting a top pairing d-man even for our best guys. Our team play devalues even Taylor Hall. We could hope to trade him for Seth Jones + maybe but not a top guy playing in his prime. We're looking down the gun of starting over, rebuilding the rebuild which leaves us with a crappy team for who knows how many more years.

Wow that's a lot of hyperbole in one post.

 

[Pros and Cons]

I'm not sure I 100% agree with the players you consider core as I would likely swap RNH and Eberle, but I do agree with what you stated.

Our biggest problem is the unwillingness to make meaningful moves. The Oilers have bought in to the hype that they themselves sling out. How much better could we be if we traded some of those draft picks rather than piling on young, similiar players.

Hall's (or Seguin, going back to the draft) we keep for sure. Maybe RNH. But the Yak pick? Why didnt we trade that? The Nurse pick? Why didnt we trade that (particularly early on when it could have been a better pick than it was)? The Drais pick? Why didnt we trade it? This years? I wonder what level of immediate help this years 1st + one of our "core" players could fetch us? Perhaps the thought of McDavid is too good to pass up but I personally would be shopping an idea similiar to this rather than rubbing my hands together planning on the hype I can build around McDavid.

We just hoard all of these players that all require development on sound teams surrounded by sound players. Instead we throw them all together and hope they can all lean on each other. Oh well; the past is the past I guess.

I hope they do recognize a core of 3 or 4 players and trade the rest, whoever they may be. Hoping that Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yak, Schultz, Drais, Nurse, + whatever else sticks to the wall (Klef, Hunt, Marc, whoever else) all miraculously have their stellar year at the same moment is infuriating.

At some point too, the Oilers have to show there hand and roll with it.
Wouldn't it be nice to just wait around until the best television technology ever made was finally invented. The Oilers are doing the same thing, at some point you buy the best tv that is available and use it and stop waiting and missing out on what is available now.

 

[McShogun99]

Chicago recognized some flaws and got a new coach and built around Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook (all draft picks)
LA Recognized some flaws and got a new coach and built around Doughty, Brown and Kopitar (all draft picks)
Pittsburgh recognized some flaws and got a new coach and built around Crosby, Malkin and Fleury (all draft picks)
Boston traded Thornton, gave up on the goalies and got a new coach......

There is something to be said about coaching change based on the talent that is there, build around the core and create a system with the players who are the main.

You build around Hall, Nurse, RNH get the right coach and move forward.

This is pretty much spot on. Although I think Yakupov and Draisaitl might work his way into that group. The team needed a veteran, defence orientated coach that can identify with young players. Kruger had those traits minus being a veteran NHL coach. Eakin's was a horrible choice and it shows.

 

[Pros and Cons]

*SPITS MILK OVER KEYBOARD*

Mike Richards and Jeff Carter? The Skipper and Gilligan of Dry Island?



Except the Oilers draft so poorly they don't have any decent assets outside of the high picks to parlay for veteran talent. the one time they did, we landed Perron. But beyond that, there's not much there.

I have no issues with some of the picks, and it must have been hard to not trade the picks, but any monkey could have selected the #1 pick when its obvious who is the BPA. What exactly has our scouting staff done outside of the 1st round, Detroit, Chi, Bos & LA all have done well in later rounds and brought those players along nicely in a system. A watched pot never boils, but if you do something else at the same time it will boil anyways. The Oilers need to start realizing that they have to still groom these guys and surround them with experienced talent. Scott Niedermayer had said it helped having guys like Larry Robinson around in his early playing days. Players futures are sculpted by who they have around in there early years.

 

[Pros and Cons]

This is pretty much spot on. Although I think Yakupov and Draisaitl might work his way into that group. The team needed a veteran, defence orientated coach that can identify with young players. Kruger had those traits minus being a veteran NHL coach. Eakin's was a horrible choice and it shows.

I love the possibilites that Yak and Drais can bring...I want these guys on this team along with Hall, RNH and Nurse. Is that too big of a core?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

*SPITS MILK OVER KEYBOARD*

Mike Richards and Jeff Carter? The Skipper and Gilligan of Dry Island?



Except the Oilers draft so poorly they don't have any decent assets outside of the high picks to parlay for veteran talent. the one time they did, we landed Perron. But beyond that, there's not much there.

I've been reading this thread from post #1 (I come in peace).

This is the biggest problem the Oilers face. When you draft #1 overall you also get the 31st pick (almost a first), and so on. What do the Oilers have to show. Your scouting needs to find players outside of the top 5 to build the pipeline.

But anyway, I feel your pain brothers. We've had to deal with our own version of Lowe for a long time. It's only now, with the salary cap, that we've been able to turn things around. Although I will admit that we (Rangers) appear to have no problems attracting free agents.

Anyway, the season is still early. Good luck.

 

[Halibut]

Wow that's a lot of hyperbole in one post.

What exactly do you disagree with?

Do we have a top pairing defender in the organization? I dont think so. There's hope for Nurse maybe, but he's not exactly an elite prospect like Pietrangelo was. He'll probably top out as a second pairing guy which isnt bad but it's not enough to turn this team around.

Are we strong down the middle? Not at all. Nuge might have the potential but we're probably hampering his development by having him so outclassed in a #1 role at this level with no support. Draisaitl is the next in line and in danger of going down the same route.

Sad to say but right now our top end looks like back to the old days of hoping to crawl into the 7th or 8th playoff spot. We dont have the pieces to become a contender and if that's all we achieve then the pain will have been for nothing. The young guns will run to a contender when they hit UFA status and we will be back looking for talent up front.

 

[Tw0Shoes]

This is pretty much spot on. Although I think Yakupov and Draisaitl might work his way into that group. The team needed a veteran, defence orientated coach that can identify with young players. Kruger had those traits minus being a veteran NHL coach. Eakin's was a horrible choice and it shows.

They had that in Tom Renney, and he actually made the team play that way to start the season where he was head coach, and they actually won games. People on here immediately started complaining that the team wasn't playing offensively enough. Obviously someone upstairs had the same thought, because for whatever reason they got away from it and tried to do the all out offense thing.

 

[Boxscore]

Mike Richards and Jeff Carter? The Skipper and Gilligan of Dry Island?

I happen to agree with this article. Richards and Carter seemed to sour in Philly. Why? I'm not sure. But Richards had a leaders pedigree all through juniors and when he entered the league. He's always been a tough-as-nails player too. Personally, I think being traded just as they were entering their prime was a wake-up call for both players. On LA, they didn't have to "carry" the team, they just had to be support guys and they thrived. Part of it was wake-up call and part was maturity IMO. But they delivered as Kings. Richards more so in the 1st Cup and Carter more so last year.

Except the Oilers draft so poorly they don't have any decent assets outside of the high picks to parlay for veteran talent. the one time they did, we landed Perron. But beyond that, there's not much there.

Which is why the Oilers need to deal some of those young players that are replaceable. Like I said, Yakupov and Schultz would be the first two "big names" gone if I had a say.

 

[sepHF]

I agree, other than taking Yakupov over Murray.

Yakupov was widely considered the BPA in that draft. People speculated Murray because they thought Edmonton might draft by need.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I wanted Murray but I'm happy with Yak. He's a great prospect/player. I think they could have traded a first overall pick to shore up some of the holes but I they can still do that so it's not a big deal.

 

[sepHF]

I wanted to trade the pick straight across for Subban but I like Yak a lot, hope he reaches his potential.

 

[rboomercat90]

Sure, that's exactly the point. So what do we do about it?

We are left with the problem that we dont have the pieces to be competitive and it looks like we're unlikely to get them anytime soon. Do we wait until the draft fills in the holes? If we do are we likely to get the pieces we need while we still control our top end forwards or should we start looking at trading away Hall, Eberle, RNH? We need top end defenders and unless at least two of Marincin, Klefbom, Nurse and Schultz develop into top pairing d-men (which looks very unlikely at this point) we're going to be weak on the back end. RNH might be a #1 center, Draisaitl hasnt shown anything yet so we're not looking good down the middle.

The scary thing is we're probably not getting a top pairing d-man even for our best guys. Our team play devalues even Taylor Hall. We could hope to trade him for Seth Jones + maybe but not a top guy playing in his prime. We're looking down the gun of starting over, rebuilding the rebuild which leaves us with a crappy team for who knows how many more years.

I think this is where we're at too. I'd even go so far as to guess the organization believes it as well although they aren't about to admit it. I think they came to this conclusion midway through last year when Mactavish switched from being ready to trade last years first round pick to suddenly being a big fan of the draft again. I suspect our current core will all be moved in the next couple years with the goal being to bring in veterans to support the hope that will be our next core.

 

[McShogun99]

They had that in Tom Renney, and he actually made the team play that way to start the season where he was head coach, and they actually won games. People on here immediately started complaining that the team wasn't playing offensively enough. Obviously someone upstairs had the same thought, because for whatever reason they got away from it and tried to do the all out offense thing.

It's because Lowe is trying to relive the 80's and put together a team that scores 4+ even strength goals per game and doesn't back check. Most teams in this league play a defensive game and try to stay even 5 on 5. They then focus on winning the special teams battle. 5 on 5 scoring is usually around 2 goals per game. If the team just buckled down 5 on 5 and then loaded up the PP, we'd actually be a playoff team.

 

[Aerchon]

Yakupov was widely considered the BPA in that draft. People speculated Murray because they thought Edmonton might draft by need.

This.

Way too much second guessing with 20/20 hindsight.

 

[Throttlehead]

Yakupov was widely considered the BPA in that draft. People speculated Murray because they thought Edmonton might draft by need.

This is why its nice to have a choice being #1 pick at the draft, you get a choice of who you want and NEED, we needed a dman or a center, not a right winger. It wasn't like Yakupov was considered miles ahead of anyone in the top 5.

In other words, we don't know how to build a team.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

This is why its nice to have a choice being #1 pick at the draft, you get a choice of who you want and NEED, we needed a dman or a center, not a right winger. It wasn't like Yakupov was considered miles ahead of anyone in the top 5.

In other words, we don't know how to build a team.

yes....but the popular school of thought about drafting for need is that needs change....so take the guy who is worth the most.

Yakupov was the best scorer in the draft......If he ever becomes a two-time 30 goal scorer, or a 40 goal scorer then he will be worth the most.

 

[PanniniClaus]

They had that in Tom Renney, and he actually made the team play that way to start the season where he was head coach, and they actually won games. People on here immediately started complaining that the team wasn't playing offensively enough. Obviously someone upstairs had the same thought, because for whatever reason they got away from it and tried to do the all out offense thing.

Renney would still be my choice to coach this team. It is a tough assignment and it is his specialty - teaching.

 

[sepHF]

This is why its nice to have a choice being #1 pick at the draft, you get a choice of who you want and NEED, we needed a dman or a center, not a right winger. It wasn't like Yakupov was considered miles ahead of anyone in the top 5.

In other words, we don't know how to build a team.

the problem with defenseman is they take so long to develop that by the time they're ready to be a regular contributor the landscape of your team could change entirely

 

[TheGuyInTheChair]

I disagree with what was said above.

Yakupov was constantly regarded as #1 in his draft. Maybe Gally would have been up their had he been healthy. But it was Yakupov at the top all day every day.

Hall had Seguin right there.

RNH had Larsson right there.

It was always Yakupov and then whoever (Murray, Gally, Reinhart, etc.)

Let's face it. Changing one draft pick doesn't make us much better today. Our problems are much larger than that.