Fantasy GM Thread | Heatwave Edition

[Kryten]

Agreed that Calgary is still a very good team but here's my concern for them. While Calgary will still likely be an excellent defensive team, will they still be able to put the puck in the net with the same efficiency? Gaudreau and Tkachuk were beastly snipers. While Huberdeau can put the puck in the net, he seems to be more of a playmaker to me. How much did he benefit from playing with Barkov? I would also imagine that Kadri benefitted from playing with superior line mates and better puck moving defensemen behind him in Colorado. Will he be able to produce at the same clip under Sutter's system? I'm not so sure. What's Calgary's top line now? Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli? Not shabby, but I'm not sure if this line is going to terrorize opponents in the manner that Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk did.

Markstrom had a 2.22 gaa and a .922% with 9 shutouts playing behind Gudbranson. They will be fine

 

[Ruthervin]

Markstrom had a 2.22 gaa and a .922% with 9 shutouts playing behind Gudbranson. They will be fine

Preventing goals isn't my concern with this Flames team (ignoring Markstrom's mysterious meltdown against Edmonton). I'm just not sure if Kadri and Huberdeau will be able to adequately replace Gaudreau's and Tkachuk's offence.

 

[Josepho]

I doubt Calgary repeats last year but they'd probably still easily be my pick for 2nd best team in the conference.

The West really sucks ass.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

I doubt Calgary repeats last year but they'd probably still easily be my pick for 2nd best team in the conference.

The West really sucks ass.

Canucks have a chance this year if Anaheim or LA don’t take a step ( they are coming though and the power shift will see them on top soon )
Vegas doesn’t have a goalie
Edmonton doesn’t have a goalie
Calgary needs to put it together, they replaced the pieces but do they fit?
Vancouver legit actually got better despite not fixing their biggest hole

Biggest concern for me is LA - Kopitar, Doughty and Quick might fall off before the new core starts flying





San Jose lolz

 

[bossram]

The plan should be to try to open up a window on Pettersson's next deal, so that's two years from now. As you rightly noted, we aren't winning anything in that timeframe anyways, so it's important to set up a situation where you have maximum cap flexibility from 2024+. Ideally, during that window, you also have laid the foundation for some yield from the farm system.

So by 2024, you want the ability to extend Pettersson and be a player in FA and trade to address final holes, which requires cap space. By that time you would also ideally have some ELCs in key spots to ease the salary burden and provide much-needed depth.

If you want to actually build a contender around Pettersson, Hughes and Demko you should be looking at 2024+. The next two years should be used to fix the cap structure and re-stock the farm systems. Those should be the top priorities.

I agree, it also wouldn't be surprising at all if this can't be done, and you're looking at a rebuild by 2025.

100%. 100%. 100%. I have been screaming this. And this is why I've been disappointed with the new regime so far. They have not been nearly aggressive enough to accomplish these goals.

If JR admittedly thinks the Canucks are 2-3 years away, then they should be aggressively moving to maximize their chances in 2-3 years, not sitting on their hands.

 

[bossram]

People realize that Demko and Hughes are only signed for 5 seasons right?

Like unless these young top prospects everyone is hoping for were making their rookie debuts THIS season, they won't help. No draft pick is gonna truly support the current core until their deals are expiring. EP was drafted in 2017, we are hoping for him to break out in his now 5th season..

Team needs to go for it right now. If it doesn't work out, then they all get traded before their deals end, and that's where you get your rebuild. It isn't a delay, because none of those guys are getting traded now anyway.

Extend Miller, no one adds more to the team than it's best player. If he drops off in play, it will be when you are trading off EP, Huggy and Demko anyway, and it won't matter.

If you legitimately think the club needs to "go for it" right now, the cause is already lost. They're not good enough and nowhere close to being a contender. Going for it now will just result in some playoff flameouts and a complete tear-down rebuild in 2-3 years.

Might as well just blow it up now and start over.

 

[sting101]

I doubt Calgary repeats last year but they'd probably still easily be my pick for 2nd best team in the conference.

The West really sucks ass.

as opposed to the east with 8 good teams and 8 that sucked ass? At least the west had playoff races.

If you legitimately think the club needs to "go for it" right now, the cause is already lost. They're not good enough and nowhere close to being a contender. Going for it now will just result in some playoff flameouts and a complete tear-down rebuild in 2-3 years.

Might as well just blow it up now and start over.

Are you waiting for Lekkerimaki and Jurmo to save the day?

 

[bossram]

as opposed to the east with 8 good teams and 8 that sucked ass? At least the west had playoff races.


Are you waiting for Lekkerimaki and Jurmo to save the day?

No. I've made my thoughts very, very, clear over this offseason about what I think the Canucks should do.

Literally scroll one more post up from the one you quoted.

 

[sting101]

Fair enough but nobody surrenders young blue chips in trades for expiring contracts and none of our 30ish contracs that will come off the books have much trade value. Your gonna move away from Miller Myers Schenn Pearson Dickinson and buy out Poolman and then try to get surplus value from where? Free Agency?

No. I've made my thoughts very, very, clear over this offseason about what I think the Canucks should do.

Literally scroll one more post up from the one you quoted.

 

[Cogburn]

So with a 20 man roster, (Miller, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Pearson, Garland, Dickinson, Lazar, Hughes, Myers, Ekman-Larsson, Dermott, Schenn, either Burroughs or Rathbone, Demko and Martin) and Ferland and Poolman both on the LTIR (concussions for both, although Kuzma said Poolman was skating as of last week, he doesn't know if Poolman will be dressing for us), we have an enviable 4.7 million in cap space.

I am obviously not advocating a 20 man roster, but this gives us some space to either weaponize cap space (a dump or two for assets), take back some salary in another trade (Myers or Miller or Garland or whoever the flavour of the week is) or just straight up use that space (DeHaan/Rodrigues rumours, or pulling an Ehrhoff on a team over the cap).

Poolman isn't a given, and I do hope he recovers, but Ferland is for sure LTIR'd for the season.

 

[racerjoe]

I'd agree it's poor odds, but it's probably the best shot you have. If you're that convinced you won't be competitive on a short window on Pettersson's next deal (let's say 2024-28) you should just rebuild right now because what else are you really building toward? You're just extending mediocrity. There is no chance this roster, as currently composed, wins anything in the next two years.

If you actually think this team is the best it will be over the next two years, it's already over.

I think if you're aggressive enough, Drance is right, you could open a second window on Pettersson, Hughes and Demko starting in 2024. But you needed to start this summer, or even last trade deadline. The entire idea is predicated on two things; 1) Basically tanking next year and accumulating as much capital is possible for the next draft; 2) rolling off as much salary as possible and being aggressive in free agency and trade over the next two summers. I understand why many people think this is untenable for the team, but objectively it's what should be done.

Standing pat with this group is basically assuring you'll need to rebuild by 2025, and you'll likely have achieved nothing, and done minimal to restock the farm system.

I agree with the direction, and part of the reason why it is the best option is because if it fails, you can still pull the pin and not be significantly behind where you would be trying to pull the pin now.

 

[bossram]

Fair enough but nobody surrenders young blue chips in trades for expiring contracts and none of our 30ish contracs that will come off the books have much trade value. Your gonna move away from Miller Myers Schenn Pearson Dickinson and buy out Poolman and then try to get surplus value from where? Free Agency?

They should be able to get some kind of decent assets for Miller. Pearson should've pulled a pick at the deadline. Myers could've been more aggressively shopped before free agency.

Then with the cap space, they either a) take advantage of cap-strapped teams to add good players at bargain prices (a la Buchnevich, Marino, Bjorkstrand) or b) sign stop-gap, free agents (guys like Heinen, Rodrigues, Dylan Strome, Niederreiter, etc.) and sell them at future TDLs, or c) use the cap space to take on short-term cap dumps and add additional picks/prospects.

 

[sting101]

They should be able to get some kind of decent assets for Miller. Pearson should've pulled a pick at the deadline. Myers could've been more aggressively shopped before free agency.

Then with the cap space, they either a) take advantage of cap-strapped teams to add good players at bargain prices (a la Buchnevich, Marino, Bjorkstrand) or b) sign stop-gap, free agents (guys like Heinen, Rodrigues, Dylan Strome, Niederreiter, etc.) and sell them at future TDLs, or c) use the cap space to take on short-term cap dumps and add additional picks/prospects.

You have to think that what they do will start with Miller. If they commit it's 8-9 million and players will have to go. If they move him which is the likely direction here based on things being said and reported then they have to be careful to not knock over the apple cart completely and create a bunch of holes that put players in bad positions to have success.

You cant just bank on getting Marino to replace Myers if you traded him and once your desperate the price just went up. same applies to Pearson less so because we have depth on the wings but you theoretically are replacing his role which you are doing via free agency or from cap strapped teams as you say and its gonna be expensive (AAV) and come with term because that's what they need also and it comes with risk that you can align these goals

I get the impatience and lack of movement is annoying but they have to be methodical about it. Off season market was obviously not very good for contracted older vets. We still have cap space coming off the books as an asset at minimum. Moving away from Pearson and Myers and just a 2yr commitment vs taking on long term commitments that dont allow flexibility has to be done carefully. If you moved Myers and went into this off season it's pretty likely we now have Klingberg on a 7 x 7 or something similar if they couldn't pry an expensive replacement using assets (Lekkerimaki) and for eating a legacy contract and moving away from Tyler Myers the reward is a 2nd or 3rd round pick? Or having a right side D with the potential of Kyle Burroughs in the top4?

These are real risk reward problems that need to be weighted based off info were not privy to. I would think that they have not only canvassed the prices on what they were looking for but what they could get as returns on our players. As i said Miller is not just our best forward he also is the biggest cap decision. It has massive implications. I know many have moved on emotionally but it cannot be understated how crucial it is to make the right set of moves with all of his asset value AAV value and forward cap allocation if thats what they decide.

 

[andora]

If you legitimately think the club needs to "go for it" right now, the cause is already lost. They're not good enough and nowhere close to being a contender. Going for it now will just result in some playoff flameouts and a complete tear-down rebuild in 2-3 years.

Might as well just blow it up now and start over.

I dont see any justification to suggest a tear down in 2 years if they lose in the playoffs the next two years. That is the most general steps contending teams take.. losing in the playoffs first

 

[andora]

100%. 100%. 100%. I have been screaming this. And this is why I've been disappointed with the new regime so far. They have not been nearly aggressive enough to accomplish these goals.

If JR admittedly thinks the Canucks are 2-3 years away, then they should be aggressively moving to maximize their chances in 2-3 years, not sitting on their hands.

It hasnt even been a year, the market is dead, with the lack of young shiny stuff moving what is realistic right now

I am perfectly comfortable if they have spent the last few months making connections, getting timelines and identifying potential outlets

 

[andora]

They should be able to get some kind of decent assets for Miller. Pearson should've pulled a pick at the deadline. Myers could've been more aggressively shopped before free agency.

Then with the cap space, they either a) take advantage of cap-strapped teams to add good players at bargain prices (a la Buchnevich, Marino, Bjorkstrand) or b) sign stop-gap, free agents (guys like Heinen, Rodrigues, Dylan Strome, Niederreiter, etc.) and sell them at future TDLs, or c) use the cap space to take on short-term cap dumps and add additional picks/prospects.

Those three trades also have negatives relative to vancouvers position

- buch - trade value yes, but can you afford the extension and is it better than what you have, and how much better. You better have an outlet lined up before further congesting a depth strength

- marino was a hockey trade that still saw a very talented young defenceman go. This is the most realistic of the three, and if you would have moved rathbone in this deal fair enough

- bjorkstrand .. again we have wingers and his money is upper middle.. and is he better than what we have.

 

[racerjoe]

Those three trades also have negatives relative to vancouvers position

- buch - trade value yes, but can you afford the extension and is it better than what you have, and how much better. You better have an outlet lined up before further congesting a depth strength

- marino was a hockey trade that still saw a very talented young defenceman go. This is the most realistic of the three, and if you would have moved rathbone in this deal fair enough

- bjorkstrand .. again we have wingers and his money is upper middle.. and is he better than what we have.

I don't think Rathbone is equal to Ty Smith in value as of this trade.

 

[RutherPlan]

Rathbone is going to be worth a hell of a lot more after a year under BB

 

[wonton15]

Columbus is down a relatively important forward now and is still missing a legit centre. I think we all know what this means.


Dickinson to Columbus (e4)

 

[supercanuck]

I dont see any justification to suggest a tear down in 2 years if they lose in the playoffs the next two years. That is the most general steps contending teams take.. losing in the playoffs first

The problem is what happens next? We would have Horvat, Miller, OEL 2 years older and still on the books for big dollars. 2 more years of mid-late round firsts (if they don't get traded away) who are not likely to be impact players (especially on D). EP will be looking for his big payday (hopefully). This team is just not structured to take advantage of any mythical bump from playoff experience. It will just be continued mediocrity.

I'm ok with the patient approach as long as there is a plan in place though. No more living day to day please.

Columbus is down a relatively important forward now and is still missing a legit centre. I think we all know what this means.


Dickinson to Columbus (e4)

Hope JR/Allvin are calling Jarmo right now.

 

[sting101]

Rathbone is going to be worth a hell of a lot more after a year under BB

i am extremely interested in this. He has an ability to be a huge impact in transition and offense but i'm still skeptical about his defense.

 

[andora]

I don't think Rathbone is equal to Ty Smith in value as of this trade.

Closest player we have for the example

The problem is what happens next? We would have Horvat, Miller, OEL 2 years older and still on the books for big dollars. 2 more years of mid-late round firsts (if they don't get traded away) who are not likely to be impact players (especially on D). EP will be looking for his big payday (hopefully). This team is just not structured to take advantage of any mythical bump from playoff experience. It will just be continued mediocrity.

I'm ok with the patient approach as long as there is a plan in place though. No more living day to day please.



Hope JR/Allvin are calling Jarmo right now.

Oh i see in your example you have re signed both horvat and miller

 

[Cogburn]

Hope JR/Allvin are calling Jarmo right now.

Boquist/Foudy or Roslovic/Peeke is my hope. With accompanying draft picks of course.

 

[racerjoe]

Closest player we have for the example



Oh i see in your example you have re signed both horvat and miller

I would agree, I am just saying I don't think we actually had the assets. And really we can't afford to give away picks or prospects at this point as we have nothing.

 

[bossram]

You have to think that what they do will start with Miller. If they commit it's 8-9 million and players will have to go. If they move him which is the likely direction here based on things being said and reported then they have to be careful to not knock over the apple cart completely and create a bunch of holes that put players in bad positions to have success.

You cant just bank on getting Marino to replace Myers if you traded him and once your desperate the price just went up. same applies to Pearson less so because we have depth on the wings but you theoretically are replacing his role which you are doing via free agency or from cap strapped teams as you say and its gonna be expensive (AAV) and come with term because that's what they need also and it comes with risk that you can align these goals

I get the impatience and lack of movement is annoying but they have to be methodical about it. Off season market was obviously not very good for contracted older vets. We still have cap space coming off the books as an asset at minimum. Moving away from Pearson and Myers and just a 2yr commitment vs taking on long term commitments that dont allow flexibility has to be done carefully. If you moved Myers and went into this off season it's pretty likely we now have Klingberg on a 7 x 7 or something similar if they couldn't pry an expensive replacement using assets (Lekkerimaki) and for eating a legacy contract and moving away from Tyler Myers the reward is a 2nd or 3rd round pick? Or having a right side D with the potential of Kyle Burroughs in the top4?

These are real risk reward problems that need to be weighted based off info were not privy to. I would think that they have not only canvassed the prices on what they were looking for but what they could get as returns on our players. As i said Miller is not just our best forward he also is the biggest cap decision. It has massive implications. I know many have moved on emotionally but it cannot be understated how crucial it is to make the right set of moves with all of his asset value AAV value and forward cap allocation if thats what they decide.

I would move Myers with no expectation of replacing him. Promote Dermott. Sign a cheap stop-gap guy. Getting the cap flexibility is what matters. Like, this Klingberg suggestion is crazy because I would simply never sign Klingberg with cap/asset maximization strategy in mind. I would be much more supportive of management if they took some small lumps for the next two seasons, to get a better asset base for after that. Maybe that involves clearing cap space (booting guys like Pearson, Myers, Miller) just to use the cap space to take on short-term cap dumps with sweeteners. I maintain that before the free agency period, Myers was movable without a sweetener. There are GMs who just see size + RHS and go nuts.

There's being methodical and there's doing nothing. My view is that JR/Allvin are doing more of the latter. Other teams managed to clear cap, even if they had to be creative to do it. Staying the course just means they have an older, more expensive core in 2 years.

It hasnt even been a year, the market is dead, with the lack of young shiny stuff moving what is realistic right now

I am perfectly comfortable if they have spent the last few months making connections, getting timelines and identifying potential outlets

Which is why I wanted management to be aggressive at clearing cap at the TDL. At minimum, Pearson and Miller on the move.

Those three trades also have negatives relative to vancouvers position

- buch - trade value yes, but can you afford the extension and is it better than what you have, and how much better. You better have an outlet lined up before further congesting a depth strength

- marino was a hockey trade that still saw a very talented young defenceman go. This is the most realistic of the three, and if you would have moved rathbone in this deal fair enough

- bjorkstrand .. again we have wingers and his money is upper middle.. and is he better than what we have.

My point was not, "we should have acquired all those players". My point is that not having cap space precludes the team from even having the option of acquiring those players. If you have cap space, you can jump on when a good player is dumped for pennies on the dollar. If you have no space, you can't be involved.

With respect to these individual players, yes, they would be upgrades. Buchnevich is on a value deal and is a legit two-way, all-situations first-line player. Bjorkstrand is on a value deal and is a legit two-way top-line winger. Marino is a defensive upgrade on Myers and is the textbook partner for Hughes - he's going to be the long-term projected partner for Quinn's brother in NJ.