FA/Trade Thread 2014-2015 Season V.10

[King Leaf]

If you hate Kessel, you will hate Alex.

Not quite, I think the biggest complaint of Phil is that hes soft Ovechkin is the complete opposite in that regard.

 

[King Leaf]

Lets get some things clear. There are NO untouchables.

If Pitsburgh decided to ditch Malkin for more winger depth and offered him for kessel we obviously do it. Not saying its likely, but in some realm of reality it could happen. Ergo, no untouchables

Next, with all that said, if you are going to trade one of our 5-6 best players, the return better be an OVERPAYMENT. All these guys saying the usual: player, prospect and 1st for Kessel are out of their minds. I am ok to trade Kessel, but if a team wants him, show it and overpay.

Same thing for Franson. I like how Cody has evolved. If a team wants him, show it and overpay. I said earlier that if Anaheim wants him so bad to go for a run this year, they should show it by offering Shea Theodore. No exceptions. i am not accepting just a first for Franson. A 25-30th overall pick isnt going to cut it.

Next about guys like Kadri. Is Kadri a 1C. Not right now, and there is a chance he never is. But look at it this way. Kadri was the 7th overall pick in 2009 -- a high draft pick in a DEEP draft. There is only 1 forward in that entire draft that was picked after him that you could say should go ahead of him -- ROR.

Point here is that if Kadri has proven to be one of the best forwards from his strong draft year and we arent satisfied.... well then it means we need to shake our heads with expecations. We cant just trade guys if they dont pan out like we hoped. Look if a team offered a trade with a significantly better player, I would be open. But I AM NOT trading Kadri for picks. Because if anything the best case scenario with that pick would be exactly what we have now -- Kadri

You think Jones and a 1st isn't enough for Kessel? I would do that in a heartbeat, Jones' potential is off the charts.

 

[leafsfuture]

You think Jones and a 1st isn't enough for Kessel? I would do that in a heartbeat, Jones' potential is off the charts.

First off, by prospect, pick and player I meant something like -- Taylor Beck, Brendan Leipsic and a 1st

As for Jones and a 1st. I see the appeal in Seth Jones, I really do. But I cant see why it makes sense to trade Kessel for Seth Jones. Jones has proven zip compared to Kessel, and as a big defenceman there is always that risk that he never learns the "little things". Its hard for me to explain, but for example, look at Tyler Myers. Kid has all the skill, but makes those little errors that will bite you. Some guys grow out of it, like we are starting to see with Franson, some Big D dont. THat is what IMO separates guys like Dion from a Shea Weber.

Again, Jones could be a huge star, I wouldnt be shocked at all if he did. But there is a fair risk that he tops out as a top 4 guy. I would rather not risk that by trading away our proven 80 point guy

 

[King Leaf]

It's a tough one
He doesn't have the natural speed you want from a 1st line guy
But some guys do elevate their game with added responsibility
What if they gave him a first line center opportunity with guys likes JVR and Nylander in the future
He's never had that chance in Colorado with Duchesne and now MacKinnon
Could it be another Dougie Gilmour story or yet another overpaid 2nd liner story

I actually think ROR is everything the lead need in a centre. Great on defense and capable of great offense. If the Leafs can shed salary elsewhere he'd be a good pick up. HIs contract isn't great (inflated due to Calgary's dumb offer sheet move) but I'd be willing to gamble he'd play his way into it.

I know he's good defensively...how is he on faceoffs? I really don't believe that he is capable of driving the offense on his line, and that's what I want in a #1 Centre. I want them to be good two-way players that you could use in any situation and be the catalyst offensively.

And would you really be willing to gamble when we're rebuilding? The last thing we need is a player that isn't worth their caproom.

 

[King Leaf]

First off, by prospect, pick and player I meant something like -- Taylor Beck, Brendan Leipsic and a 1st

As for Jones and a 1st. I see the appeal in Seth Jones, I really do. But I cant see why it makes sense to trade Kessel for Seth Jones. Jones has proven zip compared to Kessel, and as a big defenceman there is always that risk that he never learns the "little things". Its hard for me to explain, but for example, look at Tyler Myers. Kid has all the skill, but makes those little errors that will bite you. Some guys grow out of it, like we are starting to see with Franson, some Big D dont. THat is what IMO separates guys like Dion from a Shea Weber.

Again, Jones could be a huge star, I wouldnt be shocked at all if he did. But there is a fair risk that he tops out as a top 4 guy. I would rather not risk that by trading away our proven 80 point guy

That's fair...but what would be a fair return for Kessel in your opinion. I'm only really interested in picks/ highly toured prospects and old veterans who were once great but now are just cap dumps (to share their experience). I'm in total rebuild mode however.

 

[Durrr]

Anyone else not particularly thrilled about the talk of an ROR deal? I think trading for him would be another bad move that would kill our cap. If Colorado is really interested in defense I'd go after their first. ROR is good, but that offer sheet has totally skewed his value because I honestly don't believe he's going to settle for making LESS money on his big payday. 6 X 5 is the minimum of what he's going to ask for, and I don't think he's worth that. Unless someone can convince me he is? I truthfully haven't seen him play all that much, and when I have he didn't seem as good as people seem to think.

Really depends on the deal to be honest. If we can get him for Bozak + a defenseman not named Rielly or Gardiner, then I think you absolutely have to do it. I haven't seen him enough to know what exactly he is worth, but adding a quality center like that who is only 23 years old is absolutely ridiculous and a huge upgrade on our current situation.

Imagine we snag a top 5 pick this year, drafted Strome, and already had Kadri, Nylander and O'rielly in the pipeline. No doubt you have some quality center depth right there, almost a complete 360 from what we have now.

 

[Durrr]

First off, by prospect, pick and player I meant something like -- Taylor Beck, Brendan Leipsic and a 1st

As for Jones and a 1st. I see the appeal in Seth Jones, I really do. But I cant see why it makes sense to trade Kessel for Seth Jones. Jones has proven zip compared to Kessel, and as a big defenceman there is always that risk that he never learns the "little things". Its hard for me to explain, but for example, look at Tyler Myers. Kid has all the skill, but makes those little errors that will bite you. Some guys grow out of it, like we are starting to see with Franson, some Big D dont. THat is what IMO separates guys like Dion from a Shea Weber.

Again, Jones could be a huge star, I wouldnt be shocked at all if he did. But there is a fair risk that he tops out as a top 4 guy. I would rather not risk that by trading away our proven 80 point guy

You take the risk mainly because this team has plateaued with Kessel at the helm. I don't blame this on Kessel, but ultimately this is a failed attempt to rebuild a team with him as a key piece. How do you get guys to complete the roster with Kessel, when it is Kessel's deal and his 80 points that actually keep us from getting these players? Most importantly, how can you do this before Kessel is on the wrong side of 30 (within 3-4 years)?

You trade for Jones in the hope that him and Rielly turn into first pairing defenders and you have a top end D core for the next 5-7 years, much like we traded for Kessel in the hopes that he would be a franchise player.

 

[Rielly4]

How many of you have legit watched Jones play?

Since the rumors arose i have watched around 12 full nashville games... Thats when i realized there is no chance we are getting him for Kessel.

He is too good and hes gonna be an anchor and offensive stud for a long time.

 

[King Leaf]

Really depends on the deal to be honest. If we can get him for Bozak + a defenseman not named Rielly or Gardiner, then I think you absolutely have to do it. I haven't seen him enough to know what exactly he is worth, but adding a quality center like that who is only 23 years old is absolutely ridiculous and a huge upgrade on our current situation.

Imagine we snag a top 5 pick this year, drafted Strome, and already had Kadri, Nylander and O'rielly in the pipeline. No doubt you have some quality center depth right there, almost a complete 360 from what we have now.

Oh yeah, I totally agree, that would be insaannneee center depth. I just don't amassing that kind of depth is realistic. Eventually Strome is going to want to be paid and then what happens? We can't afford all 3 of them without some major deficiencies in other areas. I would rather have a really good Top 6, have our Bottom 6 looking like it does now, 3 very good Dmen and Bernier.

 

[King Leaf]

How many of you have legit watched Jones play?

Since the rumors arose i have watched around 12 full nashville games... Thats when i realized there is no chance we are getting him for Kessel.

He is too good and hes gonna be an anchor and offensive stud for a long time.

Yeah I have, he is really good, I don't think people understand that there is a really good chance he's the best player in that draft year. I can almost understand Tampa taking Drouin because they have Hedman and St.Louis was getting old. But Colorado and Florida passing on Jones blew my mind. Florida's since gotten Ekblad though, who isn't quite as good but is a great consolation price.

I still think it's possible to snag Jones for Kessel, I just don't think Nashville will add as much as people think they will. I would honestly do Jones + Capdumps for Kessel without blinking.

 

[Durrr]

Oh yeah, I totally agree, that would be insaannneee center depth. I just don't amassing that kind of depth is realistic. Eventually Strome is going to want to be paid and then what happens? We can't afford all 3 of them without some major deficiencies in other areas. I would rather have a really good Top 6, have our Bottom 6 looking like it does now, 3 very good Dmen and Bernier.

Well then you can trade from a position of strength like the Av's are currently going to do with ROR. Also gives us the luxury of putting a guy like Nylander on the wing when he breaks into the league like the Habs have done with Galychenyuk. You can never have too many top centers, look at the Kings.

As for Jones, no matter how good he is going to be you have to give up quality to get quality. People severely under rated Kessel's value on this forum because of the results of the team, but a guy like him on a well insulted and supported team like Nashville will shine. I don't see anything else Nashville would have that could get Kessel imo.

 

[Rielly4]

Yeah I have, he is really good, I don't think people understand that there is a really good chance he's the best player in that draft year. I can almost understand Tampa taking Drouin because they have Hedman and St.Louis was getting old. But Colorado and Florida passing on Jones blew my mind. Florida's since gotten Ekblad though, who isn't quite as good but is a great consolation price.

I still think it's possible to snag Jones for Kessel, I just don't think Nashville will add as much as people think they will. I would honestly do Jones + Capdumps for Kessel without blinking.

Duh i'd add to Kessel for Jones for god sakes lol.

Mackinnon Barkov and Drouin are all going to be bonafide superstars IMO and Ekblad is already Floridas best D by far... But thats besides the point.

Yes Kessel is a proven elite winger production wise... But Jones sets us up amazingly on the backend... I know we would not have to but i would honestly drop Kessel+JVR for Jones and then tank for the next couple years and draft a new crop of forwards with Rielly, Percy, Jones, Granberg, Loov, Finn, Valiev coming up on the blueline.

Cause the thing is, i want to win a freakin championship... And with Jones, Rielly, Percy i could see us having a championship worthy back end...And thats where you start because they develop later... Just like how Seabrook and Keith were drafted years before Kane and Toews. JVR+Kessel for Jones+Fiala... Done in my books. I want to build a winner.


But the reality of the situation is hes the #3 D offensively and defensively on the second best team in the league and he is 20 years old. He probably isn't going anywhere... Regardless of how much Poile likes Kessel, he almost definitely likes Jones more... Who wouldn't?

 

[Durrr]

Duh i'd add to Kessel for Jones for god sakes lol.

Mackinnon Barkov and Drouin are all going to be bonafide superstars IMO and Ekblad is already Floridas best D by far... But thats besides the point.

Yes Kessel is a proven elite winger production wise... But Jones sets us up amazingly on the backend... I know we would not have to but i would honestly drop Kessel+JVR for Jones and then tank for the next couple years and draft a new crop of forwards with Rielly, Percy, Jones, Granberg, Loov, Finn, Valiev coming up on the blueline.

Cause the thing is, i want to win a freakin championship... And with Jones, Rielly, Percy i could see us having a championship worthy back end...And thats where you start because they develop later... Just like how Seabrook and Keith were drafted years before Kane and Toews. JVR+Kessel for Jones+Fiala... Done in my books. I want to build a winner.

JVR+Kessel for Jones would be a **** show. I really think Jones is appropriate value for Kessel.

 

[Judas Tavares]

I wouldn't deal Bernier. People are souring on him for one bad month, but to be fair, has anyone played well this month? You deal him for picks and we go back to looking for someone as good as he is, let alone someone better. I think its asking for trouble.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Bernier stays. It's crazy to get rid of a young goaltender, when he can be elite, if the team in front of him gives a half-assed effort

 

[King Leaf]

Duh i'd add to Kessel for Jones for god sakes lol.

Mackinnon Barkov and Drouin are all going to be bonafide superstars IMO and Ekblad is already Floridas best D by far... But thats besides the point.

Yes Kessel is a proven elite winger production wise... But Jones sets us up amazingly on the backend... I know we would not have to but i would honestly drop Kessel+JVR for Jones and then tank for the next couple years and draft a new crop of forwards with Rielly, Percy, Jones, Granberg, Loov, Finn, Valiev coming up on the blueline.

Yeah the Top 4 in that draft year are all going to go on to have great careers.

But JvR+Kessel for Jones is where we start disagreeing. That is a serious overpayment, unless Nashville is including this year's first, next year's first, and their 2017 first along with 0 cap dumps. And even then I probably wouldn't do it because those picks will all be 20-30 range.

Jones for Kessel is a good trade. Long term we will benefit more, but short term they will, and they are in a position to win now. And I think that's the only way the trade could happen; if Nashville goes into the playoffs and cant score against the insane defense corps in the West, in the offseason you can bet they will look to improve substantially in that area.

 

[Rielly4]

Yeah the Top 4 in that draft year are all going to go on to have great careers.

But JvR+Kessel for Jones is where we start disagreeing. That is a serious overpayment, unless Nashville is including this year's first, next year's first, and their 2017 first along with 0 cap dumps. And even then I probably wouldn't do it because those picks will all be 20-30 range.

Jones for Kessel is a good trade. Long term we will benefit more, but short term they will, and they are in a position to win now. And I think that's the only way the trade could happen; if Nashville goes into the playoffs and cant score against the insane defense corps in the West, in the offseason you can bet they will look to improve substantially in that area.

I didn't mean to say JVR Kessel for Jones is fair value...

What i mean to say is that i would do JVR, Kessel for Jones... If that was the only deal Nashville would do... I would do it... Not because Jones is gonna bring more value than them, but because i think we need to build our blueline and draft a couple superstar forwards... That deal would set us up for a championship better than not doing that deal imo.

So im not saying i would want JVR and Kessel for Jones... I would more try and do like Kessel+Polak for Jones. That might tempt them, but still i cant see Nashville doing this... I just cant.

We lose JVR and Kessel.. Sure. But now we have an amazing core on the blueline moving forward and we just need to **** the bed for a couple years let Kadri and Nylander run the PP with Rielly and Jones while Bernie gets tons of shots and practice and than draft a couple good forwards...

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I didn't mean to say JVR Kessel for Jones is fair value...

What i mean to say is that i would do JVR, Kessel for Jones... If that was the only deal Nashville would do... I would do it... Not because Jones is gonna bring more value than them, but because i think we need to build our blueline and draft a couple superstar forwards... That deal would set us up for a championship better than not doing that deal imo.

So im not saying i would want JVR and Kessel for Jones... I would more try and do like Kessel+Polak for Jones. That might tempt them, but still i cant see Nashville doing this... I just cant.

We lose JVR and Kessel.. Sure. But now we have an amazing core on the blueline moving forward and we just need to **** the bed for a couple years let Kadri and Nylander run the PP with Rielly and Jones while Bernie gets tons of shots and practice and than draft a couple good forwards...

I just feel like we need to get more out of Kessel + JVR than just Jones.

We could get two great deals, but I wouldn't sell JVR.

 

[Rielly4]

I just feel like we need to get more out of Kessel + JVR than just Jones.

We could get two great deals, but I wouldn't sell JVR.

Quality>Quantity.

If we can get more than just Jones for them then ya i agree... But if you cant get Jones unless you put them together then no i disagree i think we should do WHATEVER we can to make Rielly-Jones our future. Even if it means trading our top line and building a new top line through the draft.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Clarkson +
For
Semin +

 

[PuckMagi]

JVR+Kessel for Jones would be a **** show. I really think Jones is appropriate value for Kessel.

We could always throw in someone like Winnik or Santorelli with Kessel. We would have likely only gotten a second rounder from these guys anyways... might as well use them to get some deals done. Both Winnik and Santorelli would be useful for a playoff run and come at virtually no cap hit.

 

[080]

How many of you have legit watched Jones play?

Since the rumors arose i have watched around 12 full nashville games... Thats when i realized there is no chance we are getting him for Kessel.

He is too good and hes gonna be an anchor and offensive stud for a long time.

This is the same reason we won`t be getting Barkov either.

Kessel doesn`t hold the value (both now and in the future) that those guys do.

I also think exploring trading JVR is a good idea. I don`t think he`ll produce nearly as well without Kessel and he`s pretty soft for a big guy. His contract is also amazing. For us that makes no difference -- but for a playoff team like Vancouver, Anaheim, etc. that`s huge. After Kessel, he could arguably bring us the best return possible.

 

[Durrr]

This is the same reason we won`t be getting Barkov either.

Kessel doesn`t hold the value (both now and in the future) that those guys do.

I also think exploring trading JVR is a good idea. I don`t think he`ll produce nearly as well without Kessel and he`s pretty soft for a big guy. His contract is also amazing. For us that makes no difference -- but for a playoff team like Vancouver, Anaheim, etc. that`s huge. After Kessel, he could arguably bring us the best return possible.

This is no different then Mike Richards for Brayden Schenn (a projected 1C at the time). Fans on this board over value prospects, and undervalue anyone who is above the age of 25. Kessel is a top offensive player in this game, and those returns are exactly what a Kessel trade should net, otherwise why even trade him?

I understand Jones to a degree (hes already playing bigger NHL minutes), but what in the hell has Barkov actually done besides be a high drafted center to justify being worth more then Kessel 35 points in 87 games and he's worth more then a top 10 offensive winger 3 years running based on "potential". Yep.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Can we trade Reimer for Hutton + and snag one of the Preds spects/picks in the process.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

What part of thhism aren't any of u getting? We are not getting jones for kessel, anyone who thinks that doesn't understand hockey and overvalues kessels worth.

First off, Jones at the very worst rounds out to be a mid pairing guy, best case he winds up an elite first pairing guy... Kessel otoh has peaked, he's 27 and is roughly a ppg wimger.

Secondly, Jones is 21 and easily controllable cap wise for tht next 5 or so years, whereas kessel otoh is overpaid and locked in long term, of the two who do u guys truly feel a team would truly chose?

Thirdly, teams build around blueliners, not around soft permiter wimgers! Would Nashville love to have kessel? Sure, he brings a Dynamic offensive game but they also srent desperate enough to sacrifice a huge future piece to land him either.