FA/Trade Thread 2014-15 Season V.11 - Trade Deadline Approaching

[SeaOfBlue]

So according to Eklund, multiple teams are interested in Robidas if he becomes available.

"Stephane Robidas may be 37 years old with a long injury history but he's been a VERY valuable player to his teams and his leadership has been missed in Dallas this year. I am hearing the Stars may make a push to bring him back from Toronto if they go into fire sale mode. The Red Wings and Islanders also have interest."

L.A. was also previously mentioned by him as being interested. I don't know what the return will be, but with 4 teams it could actually be decent. Then again it's Eklund. Either way, I just want to keep the number of cap dumps over UFA-2 years remaining to a minimum, so hopefully the return on guys like Lupul, Robidas, Kessel and Phaneuf are mostly valuable assets and maybe some guys we can still flip elsewhere for more cap relief. Mark Hunter has been going around places to look at teams. Maybe looking at potential returns for guys like Robidas.

 

[dimi78]

I know there was quite a bit of bad publicity towards him, but Kessel was on the receiving end of trash leading up to the draft as well.

Overlooked, was he moved to a country he couldn't speak the language, he was 17 years old, and he put up 85 points in 59 games (40 goals).

I really see adults being bullies when they have a soap box to stand on when talking about children. Some of it makes me question what kind of adult those people are, when they use their power to belittle children, and 17 years old is still a child.

I digress, others can and will have their own opinions.

This is why the draft is and always will be a crapshoot and the teams that see fruit from the draft are the ones who have a committed formula in player development AT THE NHL LEVEL something the Leafs stink at since day 1 of it's existence.

These are kids that are being projected not young men. You draft on NHL attributes like you've mention and commit to developing the confidence for the player to make those attributes be palpable in the NHL first and for most. Once that confidence is instilled then you work on completing a players all around game.

What the Leafs have done these past 3 years is take a young guys strength away and wonder why they struggle with consistency.

I would love Grigo but not at the cost of Kadri. Doesn't make sense at all. For Bozak I would do it but Buffalo would scoff at that.

Your Idea makes sense but I personally feel we have an undervalued prospect in Gauthier. He wont be a star but boy will this guy help in winning hockey games. He could step in right now and be a shutdown center.

It's strange how people buy into hype all the time and can't see a good player just because he's not star power pedigree in scrambled jr hockey. Gauthier is a better version of the type of NHL game that Sean Couturier currently deploys but you wouldn't know it because we look at point production with prospects more so then the pro's do who look at point production last. With prospects it's all about NHL caliber attributes and project what they could be as a pro both in terms of peak potential and on the lower end.

Gauthier at worst is a 4th line PK specialist but I see more with him in the NHL as he'll be playing in a game that's more built to his strengths of reading a game where jr is more scrambled play where skilled guys look better than they would in the NHL like hint wink Sean Couturier. He had to change to be an NHLer Gauthier doesn't.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think the Preds are probably looking to upgrade their bottom 6. Winnik and Santorelli might be of interest

Adding another team to the mix means we get more out of them. We've got a handful of good bottom 6ers that are available for any team to take a pick of.

 

[PuckMagi]

So according to Eklund, multiple teams are interested in Robidas if he becomes available.

"Stephane Robidas may be 37 years old with a long injury history but he's been a VERY valuable player to his teams and his leadership has been missed in Dallas this year. I am hearing the Stars may make a push to bring him back from Toronto if they go into fire sale mode. The Red Wings and Islanders also have interest."

L.A. was also previously mentioned by him as being interested. I don't know what the return will be, but with 4 teams it could actually be decent. Then again it's Eklund. Either way, I just want to keep the number of cap dumps over UFA-2 years remaining to a minimum, so hopefully the return on guys like Lupul, Robidas, Kessel and Phaneuf are mostly valuable assets and maybe some guys we can still flip elsewhere for more cap relief. Mark Hunter has been going around places to look at teams. Maybe looking at potential returns for guys like Robidas.

If we can get a reasonable return for Robidas... I would do it. I would rather Percy and Granberg become regulars in our line-up... keep Holzer as a #7.

 

[RLF]

It happens all the time. Are you really going to sit there and argue that Team Canada doesn't do it.

Look at the 2010 roster, Heatly - Thornton - Marleau, Keith-Seabrook

Seabrook wasn't there this olympics because he was beyond awful leading up to the team selection. And obviously chemistry isn't accounted when Subbans partner was Russian, Duchenes linemate was Swedish, etc. If two players are neck and neck but one has chemistry with someone already on the team, Team Canada picks the chemistry over a player who might be a bit better 10/10. All I'm saying is you can't use a team Canada nod as evidence for Bouwmeester being better since the decision was almost entirely due to chemistry and Bouwmeester at the time looked better than Phaneuf since he was a passenger and Phaneuf was trying to carry an AHL calibre D.

I don't think I claimed JBO was better, I said I find it odd how many people rate Phaneuf>JBO when you consider JBO was an Olympic selection and Dion was not. I said chemistry is used, but it is not the be all end all as you were suggesting and why JBO got the nod over Phaneuf.imo
Seabrook may have not been playing his best, but you would have trouble finding a D who picks up his game more when the games "really matter". There are some pretty good players who didn't make it. I still have seen no reasonable proof of why Phaneuf>JBO.

 

[RLF]

Has JBO ever shown himself capable of being the man? If you switch their teams, that would be the expectation.

Has Dion really?

 

[Leaf Army]

For the people who want to clear out Kessel and Phaneuf what do you propose we do with the cap space once they're gone?

Pretty much every team in the league has at least a couple players making over $6 million. Pretty hard to build a winning team without a couple of expensive players. Are we going to be able to get similar value on the UFA market? Don't think so.

I would rather clear out most of the other players who are making between $2-$5.5 million. By doing that we could clear out between $25-$35 million and still keep Kessel and Phaneuf.

By clearing out Kessel and Phaneuf I'm afraid at the point we just start allocating to much money to average players like we've done too often in the past.

 

[Menzinger]

So according to Eklund, multiple teams are interested in Robidas if he becomes available.

"Stephane Robidas may be 37 years old with a long injury history but he's been a VERY valuable player to his teams and his leadership has been missed in Dallas this year. I am hearing the Stars may make a push to bring him back from Toronto if they go into fire sale mode. The Red Wings and Islanders also have interest."

L.A. was also previously mentioned by him as being interested. I don't know what the return will be, but with 4 teams it could actually be decent. Then again it's Eklund. Either way, I just want to keep the number of cap dumps over UFA-2 years remaining to a minimum, so hopefully the return on guys like Lupul, Robidas, Kessel and Phaneuf are mostly valuable assets and maybe some guys we can still flip elsewhere for more cap relief. Mark Hunter has been going around places to look at teams. Maybe looking at potential returns for guys like Robidas.

I'd thrown in $20 to contribute to Robidas' airport cab fare if another team wanted him.

 

[RLF]

Pretty much... Jaybo was a dump when Calgary traded him. Funny how a better team and system changes a players value

Nothing against Dion, but he wasn't making that team even if he played in STL.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Wonder if the Sabres would do Gauthier and Percy for Grigorenko?

Two later 1st. rounders for a 12th. overall.

I'd rather keep our very young players. Percy and Gauthier would fit into that category of growing and peaking at the same age of Rielly.

Grigorenko for one of Kadri, Gardiner, Bernier, even Franson would make more sense for us in a rebuild around Rielly. If Rielly is truly our one and only untouchable player.

 

[mydnyte]

I'd rather keep our very young players. Percy and Gauthier would fit into that category of growing and peaking at the same age of Rielly.

Grigorenko for one of Kadri, Gardiner, Bernier, even Franson would make more sense for us in a rebuild around Rielly. If Rielly is truly our one and only untouchable player.

If you are serious, you need help, but i am guessing you are just sitting back laughing by posting things as pathetic as this drivel.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If we can get a reasonable return for Robidas... I would do it. I would rather Percy and Granberg become regulars in our line-up... keep Holzer as a #7.

We should move Holzer too. He's got good value. Let Knodel, Marshall or MacWilliam be the #7. Then we've still got Finn, Nilsson, Loov, Mikkelsson, 2 of the other three guys and Kessel among anyone else we may bring in. Valiev and potentially Everson could be coming next year also.

 

[Budsfan]

I have heard this before and here's Eklund's Rumour.

Robidas Back to Dallas? Others Watching Too

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=66016

I am hearing the Stars may make a push to bring him back from Toronto

 

[thewave]

I'd rather keep our very young players. Percy and Gauthier would fit into that category of growing and peaking at the same age of Rielly.

Grigorenko for one of Kadri, Gardiner, Bernier, even Franson would make more sense for us in a rebuild around Rielly. If Rielly is truly our one and only untouchable player.

I think they should keep JVR and Kadri. If anything add another Winger to those two in particular that are the same age roughly.

For growing a team that 4-5 years of seperation is nice. It's good for contracts because they will be going on 30 when Rielly and Nylander are in mid early 20s.

At least that way you can establish a safe cap template. The next target group should be kids exclusively or you can add some around Kadris age.

All problems start when those 7x7 and 8x8 contracts hit the ice.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Has Dion really?

No but that has nothing to do with your question.

 

[Menzinger]

In general, i'm not fan of the team moving prospects for prospects at this stage of the game. The Leafs need help in all positions. Perhaps the Sabres could be attracted by one of the teams older players, say a Franson or a Bozak?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If you are serious, you need help, but i am guessing you are just sitting back laughing by posting things as pathetic as this drivel.

In a cap era where salary allocation and RFA-UFA status are important considerations. 20 year assets have infinite value because you have longer control over them. Call this a lesson to all those that think Micro as opposed to Macro view of things. It's a good time to start looking at the bigger picture.

 

[Al14]

Santorelli is worth (much) more than Winnik... switch their values (at least).

Bozak is worth more than a 2nd.

Franson is likely worth more than just a 2nd (low first or 2nd + prospect).

Phaneuf is DEFINITELY worth more than a 2nd.

I wouldn't trade JVR for a 1st round pick that isn't top 2 TBH.

Holland should easily fetch a 2nd +.


People overvalue picks at this time. How many 3rd round picks end up having a more successful career than Holland has so far (not to mention he's still developing).

I'll check a random year, 2002? and see how many players were better than him from the 3rd round.

Edit: 4 players played 400+ games: Gregory Campbell, Frans Nielsen, Matthew Lombardi, and Valerie Filpulla. So i'd say there was 2 better players than current Peter Holland (Nielsen and Filpulla). Still think trading Holland while he's young, cheap, and growing is a good idea? He's not even in his prime yet, but he's better than 28/30 3rd round selections from the 2002 draft. I'm assuming you could do this with most drafts too...

A first or second overall pick for JvR?

Not for the 2015 draft!

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Phaneuf will fetch much more than 2nd. Especially if we eat a lot of salary. Op did a horrible job evaluating his worth.

You have to consider the terrible contract that Phaneuf brings with him when evaluating a return possibility...We'll be lucky to get a 2nd rounder with a team assuming the entire contract...I know in basketball you have to GIVE a first round pick when assuming a monster deal for an underperforming player...Clarkson for example can only be moved by offering another team (with the cap space) prospects,or draft picks to take on that enormous,long term contract.

One must account for financial considerations and not just a player's talent...So yes the OP was dead on.

I'd be absolutely shocked if some team traded for Phaneuf,assumed the entire contract and gave the Leafs a first rounder in return..SHOCKED!

In fact even if the Leafs assumed 40% of Phaneuf's deal I doubt that he'd return a first round pick.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think they should keep JVR and Kadri. If anything add another Winger to those two in particular that are the same age roughly.

For growing a team that 4-5 years of seperation is nice. It's good for contracts because they will be going on 30 when Rielly and Nylander are in mid early 20s.

At least that way you can establish a safe cap template. The next target group should be kids exclusively or you can add some around Kadris age.

All problems start when those 7x7 and 8x8 contracts hit the ice.

I would love to move Erat aged assets for Grigorenko. But realistically it is easier to move 24-26 year old players if you are going to get the Sabres to bite on such deals. Giving up a 20 year old will not be easy. But if they do end up with Eichel or Mcdavid. They will. One has to consider the cap and future salaries of Kadri, Bernier, Franson. Too bad Gardiner's salary and play has dimished his asset. He's the poster child of moving assets before reduced value and salary make them almost impossible to. A victim of Hold and Hope. We are stuck with him. But I'd take Grigorenko for Gardiner in a NY sec.

 

[dubplatepressure]

In a cap era where salary allocation and RFA-UFA status are important considerations. 20 year assets have infinite value because you have longer control over them. Call this a lesson to all those that think Micro as opposed to Macro view of things. It's a good time to start looking at the bigger picture.

To say they have infinite value is a bit silly - get off your soap box. Cost controlled players have value of course and I think we all know that by now. Infinite? Nope. Where is the value line in more cost controlled years of a weaker player and how does that relate to the financial status of the team. It's not just about cost controlled years. Ironically, you're claiming others have a myopic perspective.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I think Shanahan will be focussed on acquiring 2nd rounders in what is expected to be a deep draft.

Winnik: 2nd rounder...A good playoff type player that teams want.

Santorelli: 2nd or 3rd rounder.

Lupul: 2nd rounder...His injury history is why he won't get us a first rounder

Franson: 2nd rounder...Rental type;Will be a UFA so teams will not offer a first rounder.

Bozak: 2nd rounder...Some team could use a decent third line center in the playoffs.

Gardiner: 2nd rounder...He's still unproven and his big contract will not return a first rounder.

JVR: First rounder...Leafs will probably keep him.

Kessel: First rounder + prospect

Dion: 2nd round pick..Leafs will have to eat a considerable portion of his contract.

Kadri: First rounder...Leafs will probably keep him.

Holland: 3rd rounder...Bottom 6 player can be useful to some team.

Komarov: 2nd rounder...Leafs will probably keep him.

Rielly: 2 first rounders (or a top 5 pick in the Draft + prospect)...Leafs most untouchable player.

Winnik - 2nd would be my goal, probably optimistic though

Santi - seems reasonable

Lupul - seems reasonable

Franson - depending on demand for him I could see us getting a 1st, or 2nd+prospect. If we only wanted a 2nd I bet he would be gone already, just a 2nd would be a last minute last resort for me since that 2nd would probably be from a playoff team so it'd be late.

Bozak - not giving him up for only a 2nd rounder

Gardiner - same thing, if we can't do better than a 2nd, we keep him. Remember it took a 2nd from us to get a struggling Holland who was in the AHL at the time

JVR - we could easily get a first round, probably more, unless you blow the socks off me, pass

Kessel - added prospect better be a good one

Dion - no salary retention I think you might be right with the 2nd, but if we retain, especially if we retain a mill+ then we could get far more.

Kadri - easy keep, nobody will give up what it takes to get him

Holland - somehow Holland is worth less now than when he was a struggling AHLer who couldn't crack the Ducks. He's still young, would not give him up for a 2nd, let alone a 3rd.

Komarov - worth far more to us than to anyone in a trade, keep

Rielly - not happening

 

[Canada4Gold]

You have to consider the terrible contract that Phaneuf brings with him when evaluating a return possibility...We'll be lucky to get a 2nd rounder with a team assuming the entire contract...I know in basketball you have to GIVE a first round pick when assuming a monster deal for an underperforming player...Clarkson for example can only be moved by offering another team (with the cap space) prospects,or draft picks to take on that enormous,long term contract.

One must account for financial considerations and not just a player's talent...So yes the OP was dead on.

I'd be absolutely shocked if some team traded for Phaneuf,assumed the entire contract and gave the Leafs a first rounder in return..SHOCKED!

In fact even if the Leafs assumed 40% of Phaneuf's deal I doubt that he'd return a first round pick.

Phaneuf at 5 million is a steal. The Caps went out in the offseason and signed 2 2nd pairing guys to 5.5 and 5.75 deals, for 5 and 7 years. We would easily get a 1st or equivalent prospect for Dion at 40% retention, but depending on how early/late that would be I'm not sure we do it, that's 12 million in dead cap on the books for us.

 

[Judas Tavares]

I'd rather keep our very young players. Percy and Gauthier would fit into that category of growing and peaking at the same age of Rielly.

Grigorenko for one of Kadri, Gardiner, Bernier, even Franson would make more sense for us in a rebuild around Rielly. If Rielly is truly our one and only untouchable player.

The problem is, if everyone on the team is the exact same age, you run into cap problems having to sign everyone at once.

Also what is with your Grigorenko obsession all the sudden. I remember you being vehemently against him coming up to that draft. Like disgusted by the chance of us taking him. What has he done in the two and a half years to change your mind? Are you confusing him with Galchenyuk, or is it just you want every 1994 born kid no matter the skill?

Just find it odd your 180 on a player who hasn't proved a thing. Won't even bother with Bernier or Kadri for him. Your making it sound like every 20 year old player is a guarantee to reach above 50 points. That just doesn't happen.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

To say they have infinite value is a bit silly - get off your soap box. Cost controlled players have value of course and I think we all know that by now. Infinite? Nope. Where is the value line in more cost controlled years of a weaker player and how does that relate to the financial status of the team. It's not just about cost controlled years. Ironically, you're claiming others have a myopic perspective.

It's quite simple, we are a rebuilding team. A 20 year old has 7 years before they can be a UFA. A team will have control over them longer. Contracts at 20-24 are more controllable. Regardless I think it's good to have players peaking at the same age of our 1 piece Rielly. The problem with the construction of this team is we have some players that have peaked, some not, some are not even in the NHL. I'm looking for players like Grigorenko that were high picks that may not fit in the plans of their teams any longer. Nothing wrong with trading 24-26 year for already drafted similar aged players as Rielly.