FA/Trade Thread 14-15 Season V.24 | Post trade deadline.

[ErikP803]

To Toronto:
Lecavalier
Hagg/Lindblom
2nd rd pick

To Philadelphia:
Gardiner

Really? You'd downgrade on Gardiner and pick up a contract anchor in Lecavalier, all for a second round pick?

 

[LV*]

Really? You'd downgrade on Gardiner and pick up a contract anchor in Lecavalier, all for a second round pick?

Well Gardiner sucks first of all. Second, I like the getting one of the Swedes I listed as well, Lindblom looked good with Nylander.

 

[Teeder9]

Well Gardiner sucks first of all. Second, I like the getting one of the Swedes I listed as well, Lindblom looked good with Nylander.

Did he look good because he is good or because Nylander made him look that way?

 

[LV*]

Did he look good because he is good or because Nylander made him look that way?

Imo could be the second one, but Philly fans seem to like him as well. I thought someone would say Nylander improved his game, thats why I included the option of another Swede in Hagg.

 

[ChuckWoods]

Well Gardiner sucks first of all. Second, I like the getting one of the Swedes I listed as well, Lindblom looked good with Nylander.

This is a bit extreme, no?

He's still a very young defender in a league where many don't find their identity until they are nearly 26-27 years of age.


It's very easy to suggest that his struggles are clear and he continues to struggle to find his identity and comfort level in this league, but we have also clearly seen should he put it together on a consistent basis, then that package would be laughable for Jake.

I personally sit on him for another full season with a fresh approach and see if he makes ANY progression at all.

It's just way too early to rule this kid out and say he "sucks".

 

[showtime8]

This is a bit extreme, no?

He's still a very young defender in a league where many don't find their identity until they are nearly 26-27 years of age.


It's very easy to suggest that his struggles are clear and he continues to struggle to find his identity and comfort level in this league, but we have also clearly seen should he put it together on a consistent basis, then that package would be laughable for Jake.

I personally sit on him for another full season with a fresh approach and see if he makes ANY progression at all.

It's just way too early to rule this kid out and say he "sucks".

I think it will be interesting to see what he does in his career.

The only thing that will keep him in the league will be his skating. A lot of teams will take chances on guys that have that kind of movement from the back end.

The only thing that I would question is how he fits the next system that the Leafs will implement.

 

[ChuckWoods]

The only thing that I would question is how he fits the next system that the Leafs will implement.

That's exactly why you don't deal him unless the return is a no brainer.

Just too many question marks surround him at just 24 years old.

So much tools to work with, and there's clearly no rush due to the direction we are going.

If he cannot take positive strides next season under a new regime, then that may be a sign he just wont get it here, if ever.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

This is a bit extreme, no?

He's still a very young defender in a league where many don't find their identity until they are nearly 26-27 years of age.


It's very easy to suggest that his struggles are clear and he continues to struggle to find his identity and comfort level in this league, but we have also clearly seen should he put it together on a consistent basis, then that package would be laughable for Jake.

I personally sit on him for another full season with a fresh approach and see if he makes ANY progression at all.

It's just way too early to rule this kid out and say he "sucks".

Why do you leave me....I have to deal with people who don't understand!

 

[oldfan2010]

What I have noticed in the last few games is that Jake hase been more contact along the boards. To me, this is an important step and I am encouraged.

 

[Menzinger]

This is a bit extreme, no?

He's still a very young defender in a league where many don't find their identity until they are nearly 26-27 years of age.


It's very easy to suggest that his struggles are clear and he continues to struggle to find his identity and comfort level in this league, but we have also clearly seen should he put it together on a consistent basis, then that package would be laughable for Jake.

I personally sit on him for another full season with a fresh approach and see if he makes ANY progression at all.

It's just way too early to rule this kid out and say he "sucks".

In terms of asset management it's far more logical to see if Gardiner finds his game next season (as you said, defencemen don't enter their primes until a lot later) than flip him for something of little value now. He's played a lot better since Carlyle was fired too.

 

[Reddaye]

I constantly see fans bag on management for being too quick to give up on young players and trade them away. Yet in the same breath I see people wanting to get rid of Jake Gardiner. The guy is 24 years old. How about we give him some time to find his game and see what he can do.

It wasn't all that long ago that everyone was raving about Jake and how well he played. Now that he's struggling, half the fanbase wants to run him out of town.

Fickle bunch.

 

[LV*]

This is a bit extreme, no?

He's still a very young defender in a league where many don't find their identity until they are nearly 26-27 years of age.


It's very easy to suggest that his struggles are clear and he continues to struggle to find his identity and comfort level in this league, but we have also clearly seen should he put it together on a consistent basis, then that package would be laughable for Jake.

I personally sit on him for another full season with a fresh approach and see if he makes ANY progression at all.

It's just way too early to rule this kid out and say he "sucks".

Hes the dumbest player I've ever seen

 

[Cor]

Jake Gardiner simply doesn't have the IQ, nor the vision.

He is the slowest decision maker I have seen. You can't even count the number of times he ends up turning over the puck because he is just looking around and not moving the puck.

He needs to learn to make the simple plays.

 

[Teeder9]

Jake Gardiner simply doesn't have the IQ, nor the vision.

He is the slowest decision maker I have seen. You can't even count the number of times he ends up turning over the puck because he is just looking around and not moving the puck.

He needs to learn to make the simple plays.

Now now. There was that one time he made the pass that missed everyone, but on the way back around the boards it came right to him. That counts, no?

 

[showtime8]

Jake Gardiner simply doesn't have the IQ, nor the vision.

He is the slowest decision maker I have seen. You can't even count the number of times he ends up turning over the puck because he is just looking around and not moving the puck.

He needs to learn to make the simple plays.

This is his 3rd coach though and within the 3rd system. None of the coaches can tell him to make the simple play?

I think that the Leafs will have to wake up and realize what he is. He's talented. But how long is this leash?

 

[LaPlante94]

Jake Gardiner simply doesn't have the IQ, nor the vision.

He is the slowest decision maker I have seen. You can't even count the number of times he ends up turning over the puck because he is just looking around and not moving the puck.

He needs to learn to make the simple plays.

I'll agree and say he's not the best decision maker, but look at our forwards most of the time during our breakout. The only easy pass he has is back to his D partner behind the net if he's not covered. The breakout should be short passes and not long stretch passes everytime.

 

[Rielly4]

Jake Gardiner simply doesn't have the IQ, nor the vision.

He is the slowest decision maker I have seen. You can't even count the number of times he ends up turning over the puck because he is just looking around and not moving the puck.

He needs to learn to make the simple plays.

Gardiner makes beautiful passes all the time...

Its not like you see any of our other D making simple outlets to our forwads... The simple fact is our forwards dont give the D options and the teams breakout as a whole is broken.

There is nothing wrong with Jake Gardiners vision, its actually one of his strengths.

 

[cookie]

Gardiner makes beautiful passes all the time...

Its not like you see any of our other D making simple outlets to our forwads... The simple fact is our forwards dont give the D options and the teams breakout as a whole is broken.

There is nothing wrong with Jake Gardiners vision, its actually one of his strengths.

This is it basically. Is it really surprising that defensemen haven't been doing well here and then magically they end up reviving their games elsewhere?

The problem is a first line that often cheats and second and third lines that like to follow suit. Leaving the zone too early, being too weak on the puck or the just plainly not providing support are symptomatic of this brand of Maple Leafs.

Why am I criticizing the first line? They take up 20+ minutes nightly providing this kind of rubbish shinny hockey. How is any dman supposed do well when 3 men in the 5 man unit aren't helping?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Jake Gardiner simply doesn't have the IQ, nor the vision.

He is the slowest decision maker I have seen. You can't even count the number of times he ends up turning over the puck because he is just looking around and not moving the puck.

He needs to learn to make the simple plays.

I think it's interesting how the narrative has turned from constant raving about his patience to it now being all about a lacking ability to make decisions. From one extreme to the other.

Gardiner makes beautiful passes all the time...

Its not like you see any of our other D making simple outlets to our forwads... The simple fact is our forwards dont give the D options and the teams breakout as a whole is broken.

There is nothing wrong with Jake Gardiners vision, its actually one of his strengths.

This is it basically. Is it really surprising that defensemen haven't been doing well here and then magically they end up reviving their games elsewhere?

The problem is a first line that often cheats and second and third lines that like to follow suit. Leaving the zone too early, being too weak on the puck or the just plainly not providing support are symptomatic of this brand of Maple Leafs.

Why am I criticizing the first line? They take up 20+ minutes nightly providing this kind of rubbish shinny hockey. How is any dman supposed do well when 3 men in the 5 man unit aren't helping?

It's worth noting also that at least when I last looked at the numbers, no D-man spent as much time on the ice with the first line as Gardiner.

I do think Gardiner has a mediocre decision making process, but people perceive it as worse because of how awful our forwards have been throughout the season (and previous years as well) at giving options. Especially the first line. All our D-men suffer from this, but the difference with Gardiner is that his patience makes him hold on to the puck instead of firing it up towards a marked man caught near the offensive blue line, as is the case with most of the others. Part of that is a tendency to skip decent passing opportunities to wait for something better, and that is something he should learn to evaluate better, but the rest is a mixture of context and patience.

I mean come on. He's described here on this board as the dumbest player on the team who can't make a smart simple pass, among many other flaws. Yet he is at the same time the best D-man possession-wise, in the breakout and at limiting shots against, three areas in which he would struggle immensely if that description was even remotely true.

Statistics are not everything, but if what you are seeing goes directly against what the statistics show you over a good sample size, then you should perhaps question what you think you are seeing. At least that is how I approach things, as it seems rather logical to me.

 

[91Kadri91*]

Well Gardiner sucks first of all. Second, I like the getting one of the Swedes I listed as well, Lindblom looked good with Nylander.

And yet all the possession statistics proclaim him a top-4 defenseman.

At some point actual performance has to mean something.

 

[hfdshdh]

I think it's interesting how the narrative has turned from constant raving about his patience to it now being all about a lacking ability to make decisions. From one extreme to the other.

It's worth noting also that at least when I last looked at the numbers, no D-man spent as much time on the ice with the first line as Gardiner.

I do think Gardiner has a mediocre decision making process, but people perceive it as worse because of how awful our forwards have been throughout the season (and previous years as well) at giving options. Especially the first line. All our D-men suffer from this, but the difference with Gardiner is that his patience makes him hold on to the puck instead of firing it up towards a marked man caught near the offensive blue line, as is the case with most of the others. Part of that is a tendency to skip decent passing opportunities to wait for something better, and that is something he should learn to evaluate better, but the rest is a mixture of context and patience.

I mean come on. He's described here on this board as the dumbest player on the team who can't make a smart simple pass, among many other flaws. Yet he is at the same time the best D-man possession-wise, in the breakout and at limiting shots against, three areas in which he would struggle immensely if that description was even remotely true.

Statistics are not everything, but if what you are seeing goes directly against what the statistics show you over a good sample size, then you should perhaps question what you think you are seeing. At least that is how I approach things, as it seems rather logical to me.

The problem seems to lie more with the hockey IQ of the people watching than with Gardiner.

 

[91Kadri91*]

Hes the dumbest player I've ever seen

You clearly don't watch much hockey.

 

[Peasy]

You clearly don't watch much hockey.

You must only watch Leaf games

 

[pspot]

all i know is that when he first joined vets were calling him silver fox for is play under pressure

not sure what's changed since then but for me it at least indicates he's capable in the right conditions

 

[ACC1224]

all i know is that when he first joined vets were calling him silver fox for is play under pressure

not sure what's changed since then but for me it at least indicates he's capable in the right conditions

Hopefully it was for that and not that he's lost his mind like the Leafs other Silver Fox, Fletcher.