F Riley Heidt - Prince George Cougars, WHL (2023, 64th, MIN)

[AKL]

They are the primary feeder league to the NHL. Last draft, there were 224 players selected. 80 of them came out of the CHL.

If the NHL wants to do away with the rule, they will have to compensate the CHL in some other way.

BTW, the CHL isn't the only league that has age-related rules.

NHL PLAYER TRANSFER AGREEMENT HIGHLIGHTS: NHL AND SWEDEN - Beyond the Glass

Sweden is one of the top countries providing quality hockey players to the NHL. A player transfer agreement guides that relationship.

beyondtheglasshockey.com

Maybe the NHL and CHL can agree to exclude 1st round picks from the rule, but the CHL doesn't have the luxury of keeping players until they are 24, so some other form of compensation would be needed.

So in other words, those other leagues with those rules have exceptions? NHL teams can talk to them about waiving certain rights? Unlike in the CHL?

When was the last time you heard about an issue with a player coming from the SHL not being able to play in an appropriate league for their ability level because of that agreement? For me, it's never, because the SHL has several different levels of play that a player can be at based on where they are in their development. The CHL has one level, and it's low. If a guy is too good for the Swedish junior leagues, but not good enough for the NHL, he probably plays in the SHL. If a guy is too good for the CHL, but not good enough for the NHL, too bad he still plays in the CHL?

And if your primary point against this is that no one outgrows the CHL and they're all fine, then what's the actual harm in having an exception for the few cases every few years where it actually helps? Look at a player like Lafreniere. He didn't go back to the CHL anyway, so him playing in the AHL wouldn't have made a difference to them. It only would have helped Lafreniere in that situation. Instead, the reality of the current system is that Lafreniere had to make the jump to the NHL because he was stuck choosing between two bad options instead of a nice middle ground that the AHL represents to some of these guys.

You keep bringing up compensation as if it matters to me. I'm not the one paying it. And I won't pretend to know what the transfer fees would be, but you haven't provided any numbers either. Most likely it's pocket change to a guy worth 4 billion to get a good prospect into a better developmental situation, yeah?

I just don't personally understand the urge to defend the transfer agreement unless you're employed by the CHL. I've already made it clear I understand why the CHL wants it.

 

[AKL]

Yes, unless he is 20 years old (by Dec. 31 of that season) or has played four CHL seasons (Heidt will be 3 games shy). If a player does not meet these criteria and is not going to be playing in the NHL, they must be sent back to their junior team under the CHL-NHL transfer agreement.

And this is where it stops making sense, because Wright was still 1 game shy and that's including the credit he got for not playing at all because the OHL took the year off. So he still had to get an exception, which was granted.

At the same time, Heidt is only 3 games shy because the year he played 22 games was the year the WHL only played 22 games due to covid shortening the season. It was the same exact season Wright played 0 games (2020-21). So Wright gets credit for a full season despite playing 0 games, and Heidt doesn't get the same leniency despite playing in every single game his team played?

Exceptional status or not, Heidt has played in almost 50 more CHL games than Wright did, and it'll be nearly 80 by the time this season is over, barring injuries or other freak once in a century illness outbreaks. So if Wright still needs an exception, and gets it, what is fundamentally different about Heidt?

 

[kyle44]

And this is where it stops making sense, because Wright was still 1 game shy and that's including the credit he got for not playing at all because the OHL took the year off. So he still had to get an exception, which was granted.

At the same time, Heidt is only 3 games shy because the year he played 22 games was the year the WHL only played 22 games due to covid shortening the season. It was the same exact season Wright played 0 games (2020-21). So Wright gets credit for a full season despite playing 0 games, and Heidt doesn't get the same leniency despite playing in every single game his team played?

Exceptional status or not, Heidt has played in almost 50 more CHL games than Wright did, and it'll be nearly 80 by the time this season is over, barring injuries or other freak once in a century illness outbreaks.

I don't particularly care if it makes sense or not. I'm simply pointing out to the poster that Heidt will not be playing in Europe next year even if he wants to.

 

[GAGLine]

You keep bringing up compensation as if it matters to me. I'm not the one paying it. And I won't pretend to know what the transfer fees would be, but you haven't provided any numbers either. Most likely it's pocket change to a guy worth 4 billion to get a good prospect into a better developmental situation, yeah?

I just don't personally understand the urge to defend the transfer agreement unless you're employed by the CHL. I've already made it clear I understand why the CHL wants it.

I bring up the compensation because that's the only way the rule gets changed, which is what you want. Though whether the NHL teams care enough to push for it, I don't know.

 

[57special]

Yes, unless he is 20 years old (by Dec. 31 of that season) or has played four CHL seasons (Heidt will be 3 games shy). If a player does not meet these criteria and is not going to be playing in the NHL, they must be sent back to their junior team under the CHL-NHL transfer agreement.

I thought the NHL/CHL U20 agreement only covered the AHL... I suppose the ECHL, too. Does it also cover the SHL, Liiga, Swiss league, etc ... I know it doesn't cover the KHL? Also, does it matter whether a prospect is signed or not by the NHL team?

 

[AKL]

I bring up the compensation because that's the only way the rule gets changed, which is what you want. Though whether the NHL teams care enough to push for it, I don't know.

I don't care if they get rid of the rule or if they keep it. I want exceptions to be on the table. You were the one that suggested that allowing for exceptions in rare cases means you might as well get rid of the rule. I don't think that has to be true, but I don't care about keeping the rule so why would I argue that point?

This specific situation with Heidt boils down to a couple things
1) Heidt would already be at the four seasons requirement to move on to the AHL if not for the covid shortened year (3 games shy, played in 22/22 team games that season)
2) There's already precedent for guys to be granted exceptions, especially as it pertains to covid shortened years (Wright being 1 game + 1 full season short otherwise)
3) It's not just that he's playing well, but combining the two above factors with the fact that he's leading the league in points AND scoring at a rate that the WHL usually doesn't see

All these things, to me, mean the Wild should have the option, if they want it, to look at him in the AHL next season. If they ultimately decide he's not ready and he's better served back in the WHL, fine, no problem, but right now they don't even have that option.

 

[kyle44]

I thought the NHL/CHL U20 agreement only covered the AHL... I suppose the ECHL, too. Does it also cover the SHL, Liiga, Swiss league, etc ... I know it doesn't cover the KHL? Also, does it matter whether a prospect is signed or not by the NHL team?

No, if a player is drafted out of the CHL (and there has been no loan from a European club such as in the case of Julius Honka) and they do not meet the criteria I listed above, they can play in the NHL or the CHL only. The exception is the AHL conditioning stint you often see for CHL players when NHL teams are trying to prolong their pro stay. I suppose you can have a situation where a CHL team releases a player but, again, what incentive is there for a CHL team to give up what is likely their best asset for free?

 

[AKL]

No, if a player is drafted out of the CHL (and there has been no loan from a European club such as in the case of Julius Honka) and they do not meet the criteria I listed above, they can play in the NHL or the CHL only. The exception is the AHL conditioning stint you often see for CHL players when NHL teams are trying to prolong their pro stay.

And Shane Wright, who got an outright exception despite not meeting any of the normal requirements

 

[kyle44]

And Shane Wright, who got an outright exception despite not meeting any of the normal requirements

Yeah, and that'll never happen again.

 

[AKL]

Yeah, and that'll never happen again.

Shouldn't have happened at all then

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Savoie should’ve got the same exemption as Wright, and they should change the agreement. Heidt can gain from the WHL, but you should be allowed to put him in the AHL.

 

[landy92mack29]

And Shane Wright, who got an outright exception despite not meeting any of the normal requirements

Except he did with 4 chl years played with the weird no ohl covid year. Outside of Bedard none of the games players like Yager, Heidt, etc played counted as a rookie year because they were APs. The only reason they were able to exceed the normal 5 game limit was because all of minor hockey was shutdown so they didn't have a team to still play for.

Savoie should’ve got the same exemption as Wright, and they should change the agreement. Heidt can gain from the WHL, but you should be allowed to put him in the AHL.

No they shouldn't

 

[AKL]

Except he did with 4 chl years played with the weird no ohl covid year. Outside of Bedard none of the games players like Yager, Heidt, etc played counted as a rookie year because they were APs. The only reason they were able to exceed the normal 5 game limit was because all of minor hockey was shutdown so they didn't have a team to still play for.

So in other words, it's more covid exceptions? They still played those games... Regardless of it it "counts" for whatever reason you think it doesn't count, Heidt is 3 games short of the threshold, Wright was 1 game short, Wright got it granted, Heidt shouldn't because "reasons", despite the fact that Heidt will finish this year with 80 more GP than Wright, and still have to go back for another ~80 next year?

Your argument is tired. I know the way it works and I know the way it is, as soon as you can come up with a good reason why it has to be that way, as opposed to changing to allow certain rare exceptions, by all means come on back, until then your posts are irrelevant to mine.

 

[MuckOG]

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Anyone think like Heidt been overlooked, heavily, isn't he like a blue chip prospect?

He is 18 and he has already 250 career OHL points (1.25 ppg)
- he has won about 2000 face-offs

in his last 110+ games, Heidt has 52 goals, 133 assists, 185 points (1.61 ppg)

 

[person5000]

Anyone think like Heidt been overlooked, heavily, isn't he like a blue chip prospect?

He is 18 and he has already 250 career OHL points (1.25 ppg)
- he has won about 2000 face-offs

in his last 110+ games, Heidt has 52 goals, 133 assists, 185 points (1.61 ppg)

There is more to being a blue chip prospect than being a good jr scorer. He was evaluated and drafted accordingly but probably more towards the value proposition side of the scale. He unlikely transitions well to the nhl but it isn’t impossible. Noone is surprised he is scoring cause he did the same last year. Has he improved at things that made the scouts not love him? I am not sure the scoresheet answers that.

 

[Chainshot]

 

[Bubbles]

 

[57special]

Now with the Hat trick with 7 minutes to go in the 3rd.