F Cole Caufield - Univ. of Wisconsin, NCAA (2019, 15th, MTL) Part 2

[wetcoast]

Teams are so stupid for letting this kid fall to 15. When will they learn?

It was a really good draft and Cole isn't without some risk.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Everyone knew he was going to score goals. He was picked where he was because he doesn’t add much, aside from that. There’s no reason why an NHL team should think they made a mistake in not drafting Caufield because of a summer hockey tournament where he did the one thing everyone knew he could do at a high level. If he starts showing talent in other areas of the game that NHL teams didn’t project him to have, that’s when I think they would start thinking he should’ve been drafted higher.

 

[NewEraGM]

Everyone knew he was going to score goals. He was picked where he was because he doesn’t add much, aside from that. There’s no reason why an NHL team should think they made a mistake in not drafting Caufield because of a summer hockey tournament where he did the one thing everyone knew he could do at a high level. If he starts showing talent in other areas of the game that NHL teams didn’t project him to have, that’s when I think they would start thinking he should’ve been drafted higher.

I’ll take goal scoring...

 

[Mrb1p]

Everyone knew he was going to score goals. He was picked where he was because he doesn’t add much, aside from that. There’s no reason why an NHL team should think they made a mistake in not drafting Caufield because of a summer hockey tournament where he did the one thing everyone knew he could do at a high level. If he starts showing talent in other areas of the game that NHL teams didn’t project him to have, that’s when I think they would start thinking he should’ve been drafted higher.

Why was Laine drafted 2nd overall then?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Why was Laine drafted 2nd overall then?

If you think he’ll score 110 goals by the end of his D+3 season, I think you would rank him higher.

I don’t think many people expect that, which is why he went outside the top 10. Wahlstrom had similar goal scoring hype pre-draft and he also wasn’t a top 10 pick.

 

[Mrb1p]

If you think he’ll score 110 goals by the end of his D+3 season, I think you would rank him higher.

I don’t think many people expect that, which is why he went outside the top 10. Wahlstrom had similar goal scoring hype pre-draft and he also wasn’t a top 10 pick.

Similar goalscoring hype? Nowhere close you must mean.

 

[Scuba-Steve]

Similar goalscoring hype? Nowhere close you must mean.



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Caufield's goals number are so high it almost looks like an anomaly.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Similar goalscoring hype? Nowhere close you must mean.



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As I’ve said for all the NTDP players from last year’s U18 team, comparing their numbers to the numbers of players who played in the program in years prior doesn’t give an accurate picture of the caliber of draft prospect. If Caufield was expected to be a generational goal scorer, he would’ve went top 2-3.

 

[Mrb1p]

As I’ve said for all the NTDP players from last year’s U18 team, comparing their numbers to the numbers of players who played in the program in years prior doesn’t give an accurate picture of the caliber of draft prospect. If Caufield was expected to be a generational goal scorer, he would’ve went top 2-3.

Yeah Wahlstrom had such a bad team, right? Who did Walhstrom spent the 2nd half of the season with?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yeah Wahlstrom had such a bad team, right? Who did Walhstrom spent the 2nd half of the season with?

Who said that? Prior teams, including some good teams from the NTDP, didn’t even come close to the scoring of the team from the past year.

 

[Mrb1p]

Who said that? Prior teams, including some good teams from the NTDP, didn’t even come close to the scoring of the team from the past year.

And how much of that comes down to Hughes and Caufield? Who knew better players scored more goals.

 

[ottawa]

Everyone knew he was going to score goals. He was picked where he was because he doesn’t add much, aside from that. There’s no reason why an NHL team should think they made a mistake in not drafting Caufield because of a summer hockey tournament where he did the one thing everyone knew he could do at a high level. If he starts showing talent in other areas of the game that NHL teams didn’t project him to have, that’s when I think they would start thinking he should’ve been drafted higher.

So you're saying everyone knew he could do it and catered their entire system around stopping him and he still did it?

 

[93LEAFS]

And how much of that comes down to Hughes and Caufield? Who knew better players scored more goals.

The coach also really was a dick running up scores on purpose. I mean, they put out there 1st PP at the U-18's when they were up in a lot of games. For example they put out there first PP when they were up 6 goals with 3 minutes left vs Slovakia at the U-18's.

 

[Mrb1p]

The coach also really was a dick running up scores on purpose. I mean, they put out there 1st PP at the U-18's when they were up in a lot of games. For example they put out there first PP when they were up 6 goals with 3 minutes left vs Slovakia at the U-18's.

Thats assuming this has never been done.

Also, being up 6 goals isnt exactly a negative, somebody has to score those goals.

Hint, it was mostly Cole.

 

[93LEAFS]

Thats assuming this has never been done.

Also, being up 6 goals isnt exactly a negative, somebody has to score those goals.

Hint, it was mostly Cole.

It was egregious and noted by scouts. They took it to an extreme this year. Not knocking Caufield, but some of the usage that there coach implemented was in bad taste and a joke.

I mean, when Canada was killing countries at the end of the U-18's games they put out their 16 year old D-men on the PP. USNTDP were clearly gunning for the records with those kids, and it was noted around the USHL. Hence why Youngstown coach was so pissed off after a game this year. And, an NHL scout had this to say.

“Great player and he's way up on my list. The records are a bit tarnished for me though .When his coach puts PP one on the ice in blowouts all year, those guys are going to get more points. If having PP one on the ice for the 9th goal against Slovakia wasn't bad enough, they were on the ice for the 12th goal too. Embarrassing.- NHL Scout, April 2019

 

[Mrb1p]

It was egregious and noted by scouts. They took it to an extreme this year. Not knocking Caufield, but some of the usage that there coach implemented was in bad taste and a joke.

I mean, when Canada was killing countries at the end of the U-18's games they put out their 16 year old D-men on the PP. USNTDP were clearly gunning for the records with those kids, and it was noted around the USHL. Hence why Youngstown coach was so pissed off after a game this year. And, an NHL scout had this to say.

“Great player and he's way up on my list. The records are a bit tarnished for me though .When his coach puts PP one on the ice in blowouts all year, those guys are going to get more points. If having PP one on the ice for the 9th goal against Slovakia wasn't bad enough, they were on the ice for the 12th goal too. Embarrassing.- NHL Scout, April 2019

Its embarassing for the sore losers, yeah.

 

[GTA]

Its embarassing for the sore losers, yeah.

Nahh intentionally trying to run up the score is a BS move as well.

 

[93LEAFS]

Its embarassing for the sore losers, yeah.

No, it is just in bad taste. You don't purposefully run up a score like that vs a bad team. There's no need to put out your first PP in that situation. But, I guess people lose this context when it helps the counting stats of a prospect on their team. This is the type of stuff that used to lead to line-brawls.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

And how much of that comes down to Hughes and Caufield? Who knew better players scored more goals.

What's your point? They are very good players and scored a lot. It doesn't mean Caufield projects as generational goal-scorer. I didn't see anyone say this prior to the draft.

If he did project as one, I think he would've went higher and I certainly would've ranked him higher and wouldn't be arguing the point I am. Thats not to say he couldn't possibly be a generational goal-scorer. NHL teams get some picks wrong. I get some evaluations wrong. You do. We all do, but its not exactly a hot-take to say that Caufield doesn't increase his stock much by scoring goals, unless he does it at a generational level because I think the current evaluation by most is already that he'll score them at an elite level in the NHL. He's already expected to score a lot of goals. And that expectation still placed him outside the top 10 because there's more to the game than goal-scoring.

Can you say that having a great summer international tournament evaluates his goal scoring stock? I personally don't think it does, and I think its probably the type of thing that we need to see in the NHL before an evaluation of his game can be altered that much.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So you're saying everyone knew he could do it and catered their entire system around stopping him and he still did it?

He's a good player. He had a very good goal-scoring tournament. I don't see your point.

Are you ready to say that an evaluation of his game should be changed because of a four game summer junior hockey tournament? The evaluation of his game is already that he's a great goal-scorer. No one's arguing he's not that. The people who are trying to make a case that Caufield has elevated his stock are Habs fans. It doesn't seem like there's much of a case to make, otherwise there would be no reason to blur the lines, and not explicitly explain why he has increased his draft stock. If it was such a clear case, it would've been presented, and you wouldn't resort to irrelevant points, like the one you made.

 

[Mrb1p]

What's your point? They are very good players and scored a lot. It doesn't mean Caufield projects as generational goal-scorer. I didn't see anyone say this prior to the draft.

If he did project as one, I think he would've went higher and I certainly would've ranked him higher and wouldn't be arguing the point I am. Thats not to say he couldn't possibly be a generational goal-scorer. NHL teams get some picks wrong. I get some evaluations wrong. You do. We all do, but its not exactly a hot-take to say that Caufield doesn't increase his stock much by scoring goals, unless he does it at a generational level because I think the current evaluation by most is already that he'll score them at an elite level in the NHL. He's already expected to score a lot of goals. And that expectation still placed him outside the top 10 because there's more to the game than goal-scoring.

Can you say that having a great summer international tournament evaluates his goal scoring stock? I personally don't think it does, and I think its probably the type of thing that we need to see in the NHL before an evaluation of his game can be altered that much.

Laine is generational? I can see him scoring at Laines pace for sure.

This line of thought is all over the place, to be fair, not even sure how you got to the "generational" thing.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Laine is generational? I can see him scoring at Laines pace for sure.

He has three seasons to score 118 goals. I doubt its happening. It's not even clear he'll be in the NHL to start his D+2 season, let alone his D+1 season. He definitely won't be in the NHL for more than a few games at the very end of his D+1 season.

 

[Mrb1p]

He has three seasons to score 118 goals. I doubt its happening. It's not even clear he'll be in the NHL to start his D+2 season, let alone his D+1 season. He definitely won't be in the NHL for more than a few games at the very end of his D+1 season.

What if he scores 120 from D+2 to D+4?

I dont understand what youre saying. You mentionned him not doing anything else than goalscoring (Lol, lets not even get in there.) Then I tell you Laine doesnt do much but score and yet he went 2nd OA, then you bring up NHL readiness. Youre all over the place.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What if he scores 120 from D+2 to D+4?

I dont understand what youre saying. You mentionned him not doing anything else than goalscoring (Lol, lets not even get in there.) Then I tell you Laine doesnt do much but score and yet he went 2nd OA, then you bring up NHL readiness. Youre all over the place.

You are the one thats all over the place. Take a look at your Caufield opinions before and after your team drafted the player. You ranked the guy 15. Thats exactly where he went. Why not leave it there? You were right on about where he'd be picked. Your opinion aligned with the consensus. Your team drafts him, and all of a sudden here you are making this argument you wouldn't have made before the draft.

Laine was considered a generational goal-scoring prospect pre-draft. He went #2, and many thought he was 1OA in a draft with one of the better center prospects of the last 10 years. It wasn't for much else other than his goal-scoring. He probably had a little more of his game that projected better than Caufield to the NHL level like size and superior puck handling, but he's mostly only been a standstill shooter in the NHL. It still doesn't matter as he's been one of the best goal-scorers in the league since entering and his goal-scoring reputation pre-draft hasn't disappointed.

Caufield does not have the same goal-scoring reputation pre-draft. If you want to say Caufield's NTDP goals make him a generational goal scoring prospect pre-draft, you'd have to say that Hughes is the best offensive player to ever play in the NTDP or that Turcotte had the best U18 offensive season in the USHL in 30 years or that York had the second best U18 offensive season in the USHL ever for a defensemen. Probably none of those things are true because that team scored at an alarming rate, yet here you are making the argument that Caufield is a generational goal-scorer based off numbers from that team. Everyone who followed his draft knows that no one uttered those words because he wasn't viewed as such. He scored a lot of goals and is considered a very good draft prospect, but that conversation wasn't had because those who watched the games didn't feel like he had that ability.

Why does he now all of a sudden have that ability? The onus is on you to prove he has that ability, considering its a new conversation that I don't remember. It was uttered many times pre-draft that Laine was the best goal-scoring forward since Ovechkin. He was compared to Ovechkin. The best case people use for Caufield is his NTDP goal-scoring numbers because I think those that feel the need to defend his reputation know they can't make a good argument for it, aside from stats.

 

[Sugi21]

never seen someone score from that position so consistently before. I remember Plekanec always shot from anywhere on the ice but you knew it was a waste of time and it was extremely frustrating. When Caufield shoots, its almost always a dangerous shot no matter where he is on the ice.

Thanks for reminding me lol now I’m frustrated all over again just thinking about his 40 foot wristers from the boards