Expansion
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Barclay Donaldson
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ECHL is looking to stabilize. They probably won't lose any teams but the long term future of a few has been called into question in recent years. But the EC hasn't been linked to any new markets.
The Fed is supposedly looking at upwards of six new teams. They've been linked with Asheville, NC for a while and Columbus, GA was thrown into the mix.
The AHL's days of relocations and short term affiliations are over. The short-term future for every team save for 3-4 is secure. San Antonio is one of the few odd men out since they've been affiliated with St. Louis who's tried desperately to add a team nearby (was heavily linked to KC and Indianapolis). But that affiliation has another 3 years. Utica-Vancouver just signed an extension good for another six year. Springfield-Florida won't change for a number of reasons.
SPHL has been rumored to be looking at some locations in Kentucky, like Louisville and Owensboro. Savannah has been brought up and there's speculation that they're fighting with the Fed for a favorable lease in Columbus, GA. There's a few who think they'll make a stab at Winston-Salem after the success the Firebirds have seen in their first few years, but that seems unlikely.
The Fed is supposedly looking at upwards of six new teams. They've been linked with Asheville, NC for a while and Columbus, GA was thrown into the mix.
The AHL's days of relocations and short term affiliations are over. The short-term future for every team save for 3-4 is secure. San Antonio is one of the few odd men out since they've been affiliated with St. Louis who's tried desperately to add a team nearby (was heavily linked to KC and Indianapolis). But that affiliation has another 3 years. Utica-Vancouver just signed an extension good for another six year. Springfield-Florida won't change for a number of reasons.
SPHL has been rumored to be looking at some locations in Kentucky, like Louisville and Owensboro. Savannah has been brought up and there's speculation that they're fighting with the Fed for a favorable lease in Columbus, GA. There's a few who think they'll make a stab at Winston-Salem after the success the Firebirds have seen in their first few years, but that seems unlikely.
SemireliableSource
Liter-a-cola
Granted my working knowledge of Kentucky arenas isn't what it used to be but I think if it's Kentucky, it would have to be Lexington or Louisville. I don't think the renovation of the barn in Owensboro ever actually happened because the Icemen's owner never actually intended to do it.
In Lexington, you have Rupp (if it still has ice capabilities) and Memorial Coliseum (I don't think it ever had ice) but you'd be battling UK not just for advertising money and eyes but also dates.
Bowling Green has E A Diddle Arena but I can't find anything about ice capabilities. The same issue as Lexington except more so as the Arena complex also included offices and classrooms for certain departments.
Newport/Highland Heights has NKU's BB&T Arena. It was designed to be basketball first and looks like it would have a floor big enough with the retractable seats in one end (see their seating chart for monster trucks). That would leave a huge weird spot that I'm sure someone with half a brain would use as a party zone or something like that. BBBUUUTTT the arena is less than a 15 minute drive to US Bank Arena in where the Cincinnati Cyclones play. That area pretty much is Cincinnati to the point that Cinci's airport is on the Kentucky side of the river and the University of Cincinnati played a season at BB&T Arena while their on-campus arena was being renovated.
In Louisville, you've got the Gardens which will need a large renovation and to not be used as a giant storage unit, Broadbent which has a mile-wide floor (you can see the gap on the near side and six rows of seats on risers on the far side) and likely needs a bit of a renovation, the KFC Yum! Center is a non-starter, and then there's Freedom Hall. You could likely tarp off the upper leverl of the Freedom and you'd still have an SPHL level seating capacity but you'd also run into the open end party zone type deal (ex. the near end at the Louisville Fire game).
In Lexington, you have Rupp (if it still has ice capabilities) and Memorial Coliseum (I don't think it ever had ice) but you'd be battling UK not just for advertising money and eyes but also dates.
Bowling Green has E A Diddle Arena but I can't find anything about ice capabilities. The same issue as Lexington except more so as the Arena complex also included offices and classrooms for certain departments.
Newport/Highland Heights has NKU's BB&T Arena. It was designed to be basketball first and looks like it would have a floor big enough with the retractable seats in one end (see their seating chart for monster trucks). That would leave a huge weird spot that I'm sure someone with half a brain would use as a party zone or something like that. BBBUUUTTT the arena is less than a 15 minute drive to US Bank Arena in where the Cincinnati Cyclones play. That area pretty much is Cincinnati to the point that Cinci's airport is on the Kentucky side of the river and the University of Cincinnati played a season at BB&T Arena while their on-campus arena was being renovated.
In Louisville, you've got the Gardens which will need a large renovation and to not be used as a giant storage unit, Broadbent which has a mile-wide floor (you can see the gap on the near side and six rows of seats on risers on the far side) and likely needs a bit of a renovation, the KFC Yum! Center is a non-starter, and then there's Freedom Hall. You could likely tarp off the upper leverl of the Freedom and you'd still have an SPHL level seating capacity but you'd also run into the open end party zone type deal (ex. the near end at the Louisville Fire game).
the majority of leagues or teams in trouble doesn't pick up steam unless there's been a known issue already happening
Expansion fees as we saw with Worcester and Newfoundland are set by the league, and even those, esp. the Growlers weren't really known because of the Leafs exit from Orlando to return, there..... Newfoundland almost never came to pass had the Edge ownership not partnered with the ownership there....
Expansion fees as we saw with Worcester and Newfoundland are set by the league, and even those, esp. the Growlers weren't really known because of the Leafs exit from Orlando to return, there..... Newfoundland almost never came to pass had the Edge ownership not partnered with the ownership there....
Royalsflagrunner77
Registered User
not sure if any of you tuned into when the echl facebook page had the live stream from Newfounland's home opener . between periods the interviewed the echl commissioner . They asked him about expansion he replied that they are looking to stabilize what they have but if a good looking market comes along they would look into it . He also made a comment about arenas being built no sure what he meant by that weather they were in existing markets getting new buildings . or possible new market locations. Not sure if there is any way to go back and look at that interview not really sure how that facebook live thing works
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
The Federal League will throw darts at a map of the Southeast and reap the success that such a strategy will sow. Even if they get Columbus, Florence, and two other markets, the travel costs would be huge. The FHL is one of the worst-run leagues in "professional" sports, right up there with The Basketball League and the myriad indoor football leagues.
The SPHL is geographically overextended, but for now, they're making it work. I doubt more than four of the teams (Huntsville, Birmingham, Knoxville, Peoria) are profitable. Fayetteville remains a total mess. Columbus was owned by people with a nine-figure net worth who gave up the ghost because they couldn't make the operation break even; of course, they cut and cut and cut the marketing budget.
As for the arenas Geoff listed, Rupp is a non-starter. Any tenant would be picking up the scraps after UK and concerts take all the prime weekend dates. Bowling Green's arena can't fit a rink unless you start demolishing and rebuilding endzone seating and remove the permanent parquet floor. No sane person is going to try and compete with the Cyclones, though a lack of sanity has never been an impediment to minor league ownership in the past. Louisville was mentioned as an expansion site for the Arena Football League, which somehow still exists, but I'd be shocked if a team played in Louisville in the next five years.
The SPHL is geographically overextended, but for now, they're making it work. I doubt more than four of the teams (Huntsville, Birmingham, Knoxville, Peoria) are profitable. Fayetteville remains a total mess. Columbus was owned by people with a nine-figure net worth who gave up the ghost because they couldn't make the operation break even; of course, they cut and cut and cut the marketing budget.
As for the arenas Geoff listed, Rupp is a non-starter. Any tenant would be picking up the scraps after UK and concerts take all the prime weekend dates. Bowling Green's arena can't fit a rink unless you start demolishing and rebuilding endzone seating and remove the permanent parquet floor. No sane person is going to try and compete with the Cyclones, though a lack of sanity has never been an impediment to minor league ownership in the past. Louisville was mentioned as an expansion site for the Arena Football League, which somehow still exists, but I'd be shocked if a team played in Louisville in the next five years.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
You're obviously going to see a new team in the ECHL or at least the AHL thanks to the dumb idea of putting a team in Bezosland.
The FHL fighting for the south is weird but Carolina does exist. Just not positive what they're gunning for. Most of the teams in the league are terrible. Carolina should seek the SPHL. Most of these teams are on islands. Elmira and Watertown are somewhat close. Then theres Carolina. You have a Midwest footprint but creating a Southern ome too financially makes my head scratch.
I think like above, the AHL nonense is about over as NHL ownerships continue to mostly take over. As long as some rich dude continues being fine with bleeding red and having a tax writeoff nothing will change.
The ECHL and others are just looking to stabilize but these are also not teams that are owned by really rich guys in comparoson. The outside forces and things like direction of the economy will decide how things really go. I think your best hope is maintain but realistically I would see subtractions in the long run vs expansions. The FHL and SPHL battling for southern markets is perhaps the most interesting thing going. If they could find a way, a merger for one Single A league wouldn't be a bad idea. I think these leagues either way are running into though the classic case of getting too big too soon. The FHL still can hardly manage 6 teams as it is.
The FHL fighting for the south is weird but Carolina does exist. Just not positive what they're gunning for. Most of the teams in the league are terrible. Carolina should seek the SPHL. Most of these teams are on islands. Elmira and Watertown are somewhat close. Then theres Carolina. You have a Midwest footprint but creating a Southern ome too financially makes my head scratch.
I think like above, the AHL nonense is about over as NHL ownerships continue to mostly take over. As long as some rich dude continues being fine with bleeding red and having a tax writeoff nothing will change.
The ECHL and others are just looking to stabilize but these are also not teams that are owned by really rich guys in comparoson. The outside forces and things like direction of the economy will decide how things really go. I think your best hope is maintain but realistically I would see subtractions in the long run vs expansions. The FHL and SPHL battling for southern markets is perhaps the most interesting thing going. If they could find a way, a merger for one Single A league wouldn't be a bad idea. I think these leagues either way are running into though the classic case of getting too big too soon. The FHL still can hardly manage 6 teams as it is.
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
I'm interested to know why you think an NHL team in Seattle is a dumb idea, especially since the city has a 100-plus year history with hockey at both the pro and junior levels.
The FHL and SPHL won't merge because the financial and ownership models are fantastically different. In the SPHL, you at least have to prove some level of financial means to acquire a franchise; the FHL merely requires a heartbeat, and sometimes the heartbeat can be optional.
garnetpalmetto
Jerkministrator
Just speaking from a logistics standpoint (and not a likelihood standpoint), Rupp does still have ice-making equipment, I'd assume. Looking at their calendar, they have Disney on Ice coming there in April.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
It's not as much that as Seattle is a ticking time bomb. Amazon and Starbucks are like the foundation of the city. Starbucks is starting to crumble due to some of the PC decisions they've gunned for. Amazon is more powerful then ever but Seattle isn't a big deal anymore as far as the operation, not to mention the finances are about to be split in half. The operation is heading in the direction of not actually needing physical workers. Seattle is the posterchild for what america in the future is destined to be in the big cities, a disaster at that. You'll have the criminal rich guy who will have the finances to own a team but you're going to struggle to have a customer class that will be able to afford to attend entertainment night in and night out as they slowly get replaced.
It's a shock the FHL has still survived. Everything else from the AAHL to the EPHL has dissoolved. In the long run I think at the very least the FH: goes belly up unless something pops up where former AA markets in the Northeast and Midwest that have been passed by and can't truly afford quality minor league hockey anymore come up with their own thing. Something UHLish without necessarily the quality of play but rivalries can maybe become a thing again.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
Lord Calipari the mafia Don of Kentucky will not allow his court to be tampered with, with some low level, likely money losing hockey team.
garnetpalmetto
Jerkministrator
Cyclones Rock
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There are no new teams coming into the ECHL next season. The big question is how many (if any) won't be coming back.
CANADIENSFAN90
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Cyclones Rock
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Rapid City just got some additional owners, so they're good I'd imagine. No idea about Manchester.
Centrum Hockey
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AEG in a press release after they sold the team in Manchester said they still cared about the market they helped build whould the kings buy back the monarchs if the team was going to fold? Monarchs Sold from Kings to Boston Owners New Owners: We Want to Revive Manchester Monarchs - Arena Digest
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Manchester likely returns, but will Atlanta be solely Nashville based off the termination a year ago from Norfolk as the Boston affiliation deal is up-----eerily similar to Toronto ending their deal in Orlando for Newfoundland, and the Rangers bolting Greenville for Portland
question is how solid is Greenville without an affiliation and can they survive multiple seasons searching for a "regional"affiliation, their terms when the Rangers left.....
question is how solid is Greenville without an affiliation and can they survive multiple seasons searching for a "regional"affiliation, their terms when the Rangers left.....
royals119
Registered User
The Seattle NHL team has been announced as starting in 2021-2022. So the soonest a new AHL team would come in would be three seasons away. When Vegas started they shared an AHL team for their first year, so it could be four years away also. It is very doubtful Seattle would need or want a full ECHL affiliation that same year, since they won't have a pipeline of drafted prospects, or the need to stash dead contracts or long term goalie prospects. I wouldn't expect to hear any real rumors for another season or two. Speculation abounds of course, but I doubt the Seattle owners are going to start negotiating an AHL lease/purchase/affiliation this soon.
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
Right, so, because SBUX, a company that has reported $3+B in profit each of the past four fiscal years, that has seen revenues increase each of the past four fiscal years, and that has doubled its' quarterly shareholder dividend over the past four years is somehow "crumbl(ing) due to some of the PC decisions they've gunned for." Because that is one of the two companies that is an icon of the PNW community (the other you mention, Amazon, has tripled operating profit in the past four years), the city is crumbling and won't succeed in the NHL?
That said, yeah, it's a shock the FHL survived. But it certainly does help that Barry Soskin has tons of bloody money coming in from his primary business to keep several teams (and possibly the league) afloat while knocking down his personal income tax bill.
SemireliableSource
Liter-a-cola
A lot of those "____ On-Ice" tours have the capability to make their own ice if need be. Them passing through a building isn't really an indication of whether the arena has the capabilities or not.
Centrum Hockey
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Did Boston ever talk to Portland hutch 210 said they had some interest in Worcester
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
In most games I watch where Seattle is involved, I root for a meteor. However, anyone regurgitating talking points about Seattle crumbling based on that (or the raised minimum wage) is believing some truly fake media.
Seattle has way too much corporate money flowing through it... but it has a crap-ton of corporate money flowing through it. The Metrokraken are a good business idea.
Portland's a better hockey market, but it's even better being a not-a-corporate-sellout CITY. The metropolis is another matter, especially around Beaverton... maybe that'll become relevant to this board someday.
Woo Hockey
@WooHockeyNews
When the time comes for the league to expand again I'd expect it to be out west. If any movements, folds, or new teams will be announced it'll likely come in the next month or so, based on developments in recent years.
When the time comes for the AHL to expand, I wouldn't be surprised if Idaho (if Seattle wants a close affiliate) or another team gets the bump up to the AHL like the Eagles did this season.
When the time comes for the AHL to expand, I wouldn't be surprised if Idaho (if Seattle wants a close affiliate) or another team gets the bump up to the AHL like the Eagles did this season.
wildcat48
Registered User
No. There was no real talks to my knowledge. Boston and Maine had a brief discussion, but it was pretty the Rangers from the beginning.
