News Article: Expansion

The Fuhr*

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Caps about to explode...

Howard Bloom
NHL expansion – four teams added by 2017, Quebec City, Toronto, Seattle, and Las Vegas $1.4b in expansion fees
https://mobile.twitter.com/SportsBizNews/status/504448356584677377

Caps going to be like 90 million by then
And the team will lose players to the expansion draft :-(
 

Knave

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Mar 6, 2007
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Look at the bright side - we can pretty much protect all our key players since we have so few.
 

BonkTastic

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I posted this in the "Around the League" thread - proposed re-alignment of teams into new conferences & divisions... but I guess it makes sense to put here, too.

myJUR7g.jpg
 

Knave

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It's weird to see Philly and Pittsburgh in different divisions, same thing for two Toronto teams.
 

operasen

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Apr 27, 2004
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Curious to see if Florida type team gets to relocate. Seems logical for only 2 NEW teams. And with 2017 as Canada's 150, QC and TO would be gold.

Maybe Florida comes to new Toronto rink (on the 407 isn't it?) with new teams in Vegas and Quebec. Not sure who would get to Seattle, but whomever has the worst building with nothing new on the horizon would be the logical choice...
 

BonkTastic

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It's weird to see Philly and Pittsburgh in different divisions, same thing for two Toronto teams.

Personally, I'd like to see the 2nd team in a different division.

I think MLB got it right by having the Mets & Yankees in different leagues. Same rule applies here - you get to see more teams in the same city. That, plus it gives the 2nd Toronto team a chance to develop new rivalries instead of being forced into all the old Leaf ones.
 

Eco

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Curious to see if Florida type team gets to relocate. Seems logical for only 2 NEW teams. And with 2017 as Canada's 150, QC and TO would be gold.

Maybe Florida comes to new Toronto rink (on the 407 isn't it?) with new teams in Vegas and Quebec. Not sure who would get to Seattle, but whomever has the worst building with nothing new on the horizon would be the logical choice...

The 2 likeliest teams to move is surely Florida and Phoenix. I'm still surprised Houston isn't being talked about more.
 

YouGotAStuGoing

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Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't the cap stay more or less stagnant, if not regress? Same amount of talent spread out over more teams would mean that teams would have more money to sign less talent.
 

The Fuhr*

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Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't the cap stay more or less stagnant, if not regress? Same amount of talent spread out over more teams would mean that teams would have more money to sign less talent.

Expansion fees are added to league revenue which is split with players

That's an added 1.4 billion to split
 

Nac Mac Feegle

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Jun 10, 2011
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Expansion fees are added to league revenue which is split with players

That's an added 1.4 billion to split

i don't think expansion fees go into the 50/50 split. After all, you only get that extra cash in the one year you have a new expansion team.

Personally, I'd like to see the 2nd team in a different division.

I think MLB got it right by having the Mets & Yankees in different leagues. Same rule applies here - you get to see more teams in the same city. That, plus it gives the 2nd Toronto team a chance to develop new rivalries instead of being forced into all the old Leaf ones.

I never thought of that. Makes sense, and reduces the perception of T2 being a "little brother" team.

I still think the Metro Division (NYC area) needs to be the one with 5 teams, though. They have the easiest travel in the league, so they should have an extra team to compete against for a playoff spot to balance it out a bit. With 34 teams, we should have 2 conferences, and 4 divisions with 4, 4, 4, & 5 teams.

The 2 likeliest teams to move is surely Florida and Phoenix. I'm still surprised Houston isn't being talked about more.

Problem is, if you move Florida, you end up hurting Tampa pretty badly in terms of travel and cultivating interest and rivalries.
 
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DrakeAndJosh

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Jun 19, 2010
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If the cap goes that high hopefully the floor takes a giant leap too so melynk will either be forced to spend or sell.
 

BankStreetParade

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Jan 22, 2013
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That much in expansion fees will most likely bring a cap exception with it. They will either split the expansion fees 50/50 with no impact to the cap or they will allow teams an overage exception for those teams that want to spend a little bit more.

On a separate note, I can't even begin to imagine how watered down this league is going to get in terms of talent. Especially when you consider how watered down it already is.
 

benjiv1

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Mar 8, 2010
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Heh.

Fuhr has uncovered one of my sources.

I was actually the best man at his son's wedding.

If he's reporting it, you can take it to the bank, even if the NHL is denying it.
 

Ismellofhockey

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That much in expansion fees will most likely bring a cap exception with it. They will either split the expansion fees 50/50 with no impact to the cap or they will allow teams an overage exception for those teams that want to spend a little bit more.

On a separate note, I can't even begin to imagine how watered down this league is going to get in terms of talent. Especially when you consider how watered down it already is.

That's a tired argument. The league isn't watered down. More countries are pumping out more players than ever before. Before the 90s there were hardly any Europeans in the league. There's more talent than ever, but coaching and training have levelled the playing field. The scrubs are much better than they used to, and the goalies are just in another dimension. I mean that literally, they are huge.
 

Benjamin

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Jun 14, 2010
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That much in expansion fees will most likely bring a cap exception with it. They will either split the expansion fees 50/50 with no impact to the cap or they will allow teams an overage exception for those teams that want to spend a little bit more.

On a separate note, I can't even begin to imagine how watered down this league is going to get in terms of talent. Especially when you consider how watered down it already is.

How is it watered down? The Sens have NHL calibre players in the AHL...

Its the exact opposite.
 

sensfandan

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A few misconceptions so far in this thread:

Does anyone know for certain if expansion fees are actually included in HRR? I know it was a sticking point during the last lockout. If they aren't, $1.4 billion in expansion fees basically means $46.7 million dollars in Eugene's pocket.

Secondly, even IF expansion fees are included in HRR and there's a corresponding increase in the cap, it will only eat up 50% of the expansion fees. i.e. Eugene will get a paycheck for $46.7 million, and will only be obligated to spend half of that, so there's still a net positive for the team.

Furthermore, new markets will increase overall league revenue, however they are extremely unlikely to increase the cap. In order for them to have a positive effect on the cap, the average revenue of those new markets would need to be higher than the league average - extremely unlikely for a new market. They will likely take 10+ years of growth and market penetration to have revenues that high. The average revenue in the league will decrease, and therefore the cap will decrease (or rather, the lower revenues of new teams will offset the growth in established markets, thereby lowering the cap growth)

Expansion means nothing but good things for the Sens. Now relocation, i.e. Florida to Quebec, or Phoenix to Seattle - a poor market to a potentially huge market - that would have a positive effect on the cap, and hurt the sens financial position.

Hopefully, Eugene uses the cash influx to pay down the debt on the sens, or even better, refinance with more favourable terms. This would have a huge year to year improvement on our bottom line, and could free up an additional $5-10 million for salary a year.
 

alxmrtl

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May 18, 2007
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Expansion fees are added to league revenue which is split with players

That's an added 1.4 billion to split

This is wrong.

Money from expansion (and relocation for that matter) doesn't count as part of HRR.
 
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BonkTastic

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Hopefully, Eugene uses the cash influx to pay down the debt on the sens, or even better, refinance with more favourable terms. This would have a huge year to year improvement on our bottom line, and could free up an additional $5-10 million for salary a year.

This is a next-level truth that needs more attention.

Responsibly investing expansion fee moneys back into the franchise could phenomenally help the bottom line for us.
 

Upgrayedd

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Oct 14, 2010
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If this plays out as rumoured would be interesting to see if our two current rivals turn their focus to the new squads i.e. Leafs fans placing the new Tdot team as enemy number 1 and Habs fans re-igniting the Quebec rivalry, leaving the Sens to take back our building/city?
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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i don't think expansion fees go into the 50/50 split. After all, you only get that extra cash in the one year you have a new expansion team.

Here is what I found,

2005 CBA HRR: http://www.davemanuel.com/investor-dictionary/hockey-related-revenues/

I beleive they retained the old definition, so that would still stand. I'n not sure if expansion fees would qualify, and even if it did, how would you account for it; have the cap explode one year and then go right back down the next?
 

sensfandan

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Aug 21, 2004
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Here is what I found,

2005 CBA HRR: http://www.davemanuel.com/investor-dictionary/hockey-related-revenues/

I beleive they retained the old definition, so that would still stand. I'n not sure if expansion fees would qualify, and even if it did, how would you account for it; have the cap explode one year and then go right back down the next?

I would assume it would have to work out as bonuses to players. i.e. the players as a total get a $700 million dollar bonus, and they each get a weighted total based on their cap hit (which is essentially how their salary is currently determined anyways).
 

LatteLarrys

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Dec 27, 2013
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4 additional teams? 32 should be enough (although I couldn't be more excited about the return of the Nordiques). It's looking more and more inevitable that 1-2 teams in the south may end up folding within the next few years, so, if possible, I'd much rather see two of the 2017 teams enter the league via relocation.
 

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