Expansion draft - Vegas takes.....Pulkkinen!?!?

[Englishcoyote]

http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2017/...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter


A very interesting piece on the coyotes at expansion draft, got to bring in players to have them available for vegas to pick at. It just shows that the whole expansion draft thing is a joke......

Click to read more...

 

[Tom Polakis]

http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2017/...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter


A very interesting piece on the coyotes at expansion draft, got to bring in players to have them available for vegas to pick at. It just shows that the whole expansion draft thing is a joke......

What aspects of the expansion draft make it a joke, and what would be a better alternative way to do it? Not being snarky here, just asking.

 

[Englishcoyote]

I mean having to sign players in so we have enough to offer for begas to pick from. Yes I admit Iam glad the youngster are protected but is that our fault that we have a young roster....

 

[moosemeister]

Looking over the article, don't we have to protect Duclair?

 

[Guest]

re: Duke, he is a second year pro and is exempt as well as rookies. Same for Nook.

I think they took a wrong turn on this article.

The Coyotes must expose two forwards, a defenseman and a goaltender in the expansion draft.

The Coyotes have Rieder, McGinn and Richardson that could be exposed at forward. They have OEL, Gogs, Murphy, Schenn and Connauton who could be exposed at defense. They missed that Louie would be the only goaltender that could be exposed (Smitty has NTC).

The Coyotes have players required to expose to Vegas. The real point is that they could trade for players to fill up protected spots. Assuming they would protect Rieder, OEL, Gogs, Murphy and Smitty they would have to make a decision on who to expose between Schenn and Connauton, because at least one must be exposed. If they protected Rieder, OEL, Gogs, Murphy they could either protect 4 more players (mix of F/D) at a minimum or up to 6 more forwards.

This just leaves the Coyotes with the option to acquire players that teams would otherwise have to expose. It is most likely that the Coyotes go with protecting 8 skaters because they are not going to flood the roster with 6 new forwards via trade. So with the core 4 that I keep mentioning and then you protect one of Schenn/Connauton for a total of 5 protected, the Coyotes could acquire up to 3 more players to protect.

The Coyotes are not required to protect 8 players however, only required to offer up 2xF, 1xD and 1xG.

 

[_Del_]

Yes, Duclair does, and I'm pretty sure unsigned RFA's will be exposed/protected. So Burmistrov, McGinn, Jooris, etc should be exposed. I don't think that article is on top of things.

An extension to Burmistrov or Jooris satisfies the requirement. Expose Burmistrov and McGinn.

 

[Guest]

^ I was mistaken, I forgot NYR played Duke beyond the 10 game limit so that first season does count and he would have to be protected. As you said, all of the RFA's would have to be protected or exposed as well. It becomes a matter of whether or not the Coyotes can acquire anyone that is worth exposing other guys.

There is room for the Coyotes to add a couple of players but I honestly think it is more likely for clubs to work out a deal with Vegas rather than unloading players to the Coyotes.

From other GM's perspectives, if you have 4 players you have to expose and you do not want this or that player getting picked up, you work out a deal with Vegas who is looking to acquire picks and assets on the cheap not to pick up that player. By comparison, if you are trying to circumvent the expansion draft with the Coyotes you would have to trade them one of the players you have to protect to open up a spot to protect the player that is exposed. That club would likely have to pick up some of that salary to send them to the Coyotes plus give the Coyotes an incentive to make the deal. The only way this works is if a team does not want to protect a player and wants to unload a salary/protection spot. Again, that team could make the same deal with Vegas or a number of other teams which softens the market for the Coyotes.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

^ I was mistaken, I forgot NYR played Duke beyond the 10 game limit so that first season does count and he would have to be protected. As you said, all of the RFA's would have to be protected or exposed as well. It becomes a matter of whether or not the Coyotes can acquire anyone that is worth exposing other guys.

There is room for the Coyotes to add a couple of players but I honestly think it is more likely for clubs to work out a deal with Vegas rather than unloading players to the Coyotes.

From other GM's perspectives, if you have 4 players you have to expose and you do not want this or that player getting picked up, you work out a deal with Vegas who is looking to acquire picks and assets on the cheap not to pick up that player. By comparison, if you are trying to circumvent the expansion draft with the Coyotes you would have to trade them one of the players you have to protect to open up a spot to protect the player that is exposed. That club would likely have to pick up some of that salary to send them to the Coyotes plus give the Coyotes an incentive to make the deal. The only way this works is if a team does not want to protect a player and wants to unload a salary/protection spot. Again, that team could make the same deal with Vegas or a number of other teams which softens the market for the Coyotes.

I can't see how this scenario favors Vegas. They need established players to fill the team, not mid level draft slots. Value for Vegas would favor taking best player available, not second best and a draft pick. FWIW, Concentrating talent by choosing 1 player rather than spreading it out over lesser multiple players seems the smart way to go, almost always.

 

[XX]

Qualify Holland and then easily waive him after camp if he doesn't make it. Connauton will probably be the D exposed.

This is a total nonissue and FFH is making it seem like there's difficult decisions to be made.

 

[Kaizen]

I'd qualify Jooris before Holland. Smaller commitment if he's not claimed, or claimed on waivers.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I'd qualify Jooris before Holland. Smaller commitment if he's not claimed, or claimed on waivers.

Yeah, and if we're stuck with him he's a better player than Holland.

 

[XX]

Yeah, and if we're stuck with him he's a better player than Holland.

Jooris isn't better than Holland, for starters. But if the intention is to bury the contract in Tucson, Holland is a better choice as he's near a PPG player in the AHL. Someone may even claim him off waivers. The dollars, if signed above 900k, may actually be beneficial to have on the cap at that point to help reach the floor.

 

[Jakey53]

I'd qualify Jooris before Holland. Smaller commitment if he's not claimed, or claimed on waivers.

Yeah, and if we're stuck with him he's a better player than Holland.

Jooris isn't better than Holland, for starters. But if the intention is to bury the contract in Tucson, Holland is a better choice as he's near a PPG player in the AHL. Someone may even claim him off waivers. The dollars, if signed above 900k, may actually be beneficial to have on the cap at that point to help reach the floor.

Both are not very good. I hope I never see them again in a Coyotes uniform.

 

[IPreferPi]

Jooris isn't better than Holland, for starters. But if the intention is to bury the contract in Tucson, Holland is a better choice as he's near a PPG player in the AHL. Someone may even claim him off waivers. The dollars, if signed above 900k, may actually be beneficial to have on the cap at that point to help reach the floor.

Jooris is good enough as a 12th/13th forward. Holland doesn't have the skill to be a top 6 guy nor the grit and defense you want from a bottom 6 forward.

There are of course better options but if I had to choose I'd pick Jooris over Holland every time.

 

[_Del_]

I'd take Holland and demote him. He's a better AHL player than Jooris, which I fervently hope would be where either would end up. With Tippett at the helm, who knows what would happen.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Jooris isn't better than Holland, for starters. But if the intention is to bury the contract in Tucson, Holland is a better choice as he's near a PPG player in the AHL. Someone may even claim him off waivers. The dollars, if signed above 900k, may actually be beneficial to have on the cap at that point to help reach the floor.

Holland scored only one point more than Jooris in his time with the Coyotes. Jooris was a -3, Holland was a -14. And Jooris as a RW had a F/O success rate of nearly 4% better than Holland. So if we HAVE to keep one and maybe even be forced to play him, Jooris is the safer bet, IMO.

Granted, this is an unnecessary comparo of two absolutely expendable and low-talent players whose lack of skill or standout talents make them eminently forgettable, and who will also probably be in Switzerland or Russia at this point next year, but there you go.

I doubt either of these guys gets claimed off of waivers, and I doubt either of them will command more than $900K in FA.

 

[_Del_]

Jooris is more useful as a role player in the NHL, but I'd have ZERO interest in him in the NHL. Holland would be an okay, useful veteran for Tucson. He'd be better than Jooris in Tucson. That I would have marginal interest in. If I had to sign one, it'd be Holland for that purpose.

 

[strizzy16]

Why are we worrying about jooris and holland? They are this season's Plotnikov and Tikhonov

 

[XX]

Jooris is good enough as a 12th/13th forward. Holland doesn't have the skill to be a top 6 guy nor the grit and defense you want from a bottom 6 forward.

There are of course better options but if I had to choose I'd pick Jooris over Holland every time.

I'm operating under the assumption that neither is wanted and has a 100% chance of being buried. I'd take Holland.

 

[Guest]

The expansion draft is June 21, and RFA qualifying offer deadline I believe is after that. Qualifying offers would not really be factored into decisions regarding the expansion draft. You would not have to qualify either Holland or Jooris for expansion draft considerations, so let them both walk.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Expansion Draft

Every mock up I've seen has the Coyotes with the least desirable asset for Las Vegas. As it stands now I see 6 forwards - Vrbata, Rieder, Richardson, Burmistrov, Duclair, and Martinook certainly being protected. On defense, just 3 - OEL, Goligoski (NMC), and Murphy.

That leaves 1 more forward to be protected while leaving at least 2 available out of Doan, McGinn, Holland, and Jooris, but these guys aside from McGinn are also pending on resigning as the players you leave available need to be under contract through next season unless Las Vegas signs one of them in free agency. So unless Doan makes a decision, we're likely resigning one of Jooris and Holland they're here through at least the summer.

On defense 1 needs to be left open out of Michalek (retiring, not sure if it's official yet), Connauton, and Schenn.

My suspicion is that we're going to try and acquire another forward from a team with protection issues for non-roster assets and then we'll not have to waste a protection slot on McGinn, Jooris, Holland, or Doan, and can hold onto whoever is picked up.

If we try and acquire a defenseman, then it's going to be much more complicated. We'd likely lose at least a forward in exchange, either to a team that can protect whomever we're sending over, or we'd send non-roster assets and be left with unprotected players while we jostle protecting 4 forwards and now 4 defensemen.

The only thing I can see happening is trading something like Duclair and Rieder/Martinook for a solid defensemen. Most teams can't take on 2 new protected forwards though, and so might ask for one of those and some picks, in which case now we're equivalently losing whichever one of those forwards to Vegas just to secure that defenseman. I don't know, maybe it's worth it if the defenseman is really good, but I doubt it.

 

[_Del_]

Just don't sign Vrbata or Doan before the Draft. Problem solved. You could even protect Schenn and still have literally nothing enticing for Vegas. This is a complete nonissue. A league minimum deal to Holland to get our second required exposed forward with McGinn. All but, guarantees McGinn gets picked which frees up more money to overpay a center or two in free agency so we can reach the floor.

 

[hbk]

Over/under on significant moves prior to expansion draft? 5? We've already seen Darling move which caught me by surprise as I assumed Crawford was going to Be moved.

 

[SniperHF]

Over/under on significant moves prior to expansion draft? 5? We've already seen Darling move which caught me by surprise as I assumed Crawford was going to Be moved.

Does the backup for a 3rd count as significant? Crawford moving sure would have been given his contract.

I'm still of the opinion that there won't be much of significance so I'll happily take the under.

 

[hbk]

Does the backup for a 3rd count as significant? Crawford moving sure would have been given his contract.

I'm still of the opinion that there won't be much of significance so I'll happily take the under.

I think Darling rates as a potential starting goalie so I have that as significant. Returnwas a draft pick can't take an asset back that requires protecting and market for a goalie is a team an all time low.