Expansion draft and waivers

[BruinsBtn]

Help me out here.

Vegas is going to take 30 players and all of them will be guys who can't be sent to the minors without waivers (because of the expansion draft rules).

An NHL roster is 23 players.

So Vegas is going to have to take 7 guys who will be put on waivers in training camp. Possibly more after free agency.

That should make waivers very interesting in September. It puts Colorado in a good spot to grab some good players.

Are there any special Vegas waiver rules for those extra guys? Can their old teams reclaim them first?

Or maybe Vegas drafts 7 guys and then trades them straight away for picks? That would make the most sense for them, right? But they would still have to draft the guys before trading them back or elsewhere and that's gotta shake things up.

Click to read more...

 

[mouser]

There are no special waiver rules for Vegas.

To keep the numbers in line, the expectation is Vegas will do some combination of:
- Waiver exempt players--some goalies are exempt still.
- Players Vegas expects to trade.
- Players not yet established in the NHL with upside--if they don't make the team in training camp then good possibility to slide through waivers to the AHL.

 

[TaLoN]

Help me out here.

Vegas is going to take 30 players and all of them will be guys who can't be sent to the minors without waivers (because of the expansion draft rules).

An NHL roster is 23 players.

So Vegas is going to have to take 7 guys who will be put on waivers in training camp. Possibly more after free agency.

That should make waivers very interesting in September. It puts Colorado in a good spot to grab some good players.

Are there any special Vegas waiver rules for those extra guys? Can their old teams reclaim them first?

Or maybe Vegas drafts 7 guys and then trades them straight away for picks? That would make the most sense for them, right? But they would still have to draft the guys before trading them back or elsewhere and that's gotta shake things up.

Where did you get that idea from? There is nothing preventing them from taking players who are not waiver eligible.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Where did you get that idea from? There is nothing preventing them from taking players who are not waiver eligible.

Players with less than 2 years experience can't be drafted. Everyone with that much experience can't be sent down without waivers.

Basically the waivers rules are the same as the draft rules.

Name me one skater who Vegas could take that wouldn't need waivers to go to the AHL?

 

[TaLoN]

Players with less than 2 years experience can't be drafted. Everyone with that much experience can't be sent down without waivers.

Basically the waivers rules are the same as the draft rules.

Name me one skater who Vegas could take that wouldn't need waivers to go to the AHL?

Players in their first two PRO-years can't be drafted. Those in their 3rd can... being a pro in your 3rd season doesn't mean you are waiver eligible.

Example... the Wild have to expose Gustav Olofsson - he is not waiver eligible.

 

[mouser]

Players in their first two PRO-years can't be drafted. Those in their 3rd can... being a pro in your 3rd season doesn't mean you are waiver eligible.

Example... the Wild have to expose Gustav Olofsson - he is not waiver eligible.

Gustav Olofsson is waiver eligible in 2017-18. He burned his 3rd and final year of waiver exemptions this season.

 

[TaLoN]

Gustav Olofsson is waiver eligible in 2017-18. He burned his 3rd and final year of waiver exemptions this season.

My bad, but here are couple waiver exempt players for 2017-18 that are ED exposed players...Linus Ullmark, Pheonix Copley...
I thought Olofsson had signed when he was 19, which would have pushed it another year is where my confusion came from.

When a player is reassigned from the NHL to the AHL, they must pass through waivers (unless exempt). Waivers allow any of the other teams to claim the rights of the player.
In the previous CBA, waivers were required when a player was recalled to the NHL (Re-entry waivers), these no longer exist under the 2012 CBA.
Age is defined by the following:
If a player turns 18 between January 1 and September 15 on the year of the entry draft, they are considered 18
If a player turns 19 before December 31 of the year on the calendar year of the entry draft, they are considered 19
If a player turns 20 before December 31 of the year on the calendar year of the entry draft, they are considered 20, and so on.
For players whom are 20 or older, the year in which they play their first Professional Game (e.g. NHL, AHL, ECHL, KHL, European Leagues) is the year which is considered their first year towards the waiver exemption; however, the player must be under an NHL contract.
The following table indicates when a player is no longer exempt from waivers. For example, a skater who signs their entry-level contract at 18 will become exempt after playing 160 NHL games, or after 5 seasons (whichever comes first). CBA Reference 13.4

Age Years from Signing NHL Contract NHL Games Played Years from Signing NHL Contract NHL Games Played
Skaters Goalies
18 5 160 6 80
19 4 160 5 80
20 3 160 4 80
21 3 80 4 60
22 3 70 4 60
23 3 60 3 60
24 2 60 2 60
25+ 1 1

EDIT: Example of the situation I THOUGHT Olofsson was in... is the Stars Jason Dickinson. Signed his contract at 19, didn't play 11 games in the NHL that first season, thus set his waiver ineligibility at 4yrs... thus he will have to either be protected or exposed for the expansion draft, and won't be eligible for waivers until the 2018-2019 season.

 

[keon]

My bad, but here are couple waiver exempt players for 2017-18 that are ED exposed players...Linus Ullmark, Pheonix Copley...
I thought Olofsson had signed when he was 19, which would have pushed it another year is where my confusion came from.


EDIT: Example of the situation I THOUGHT Olofsson was in... is the Stars Jason Dickinson. Signed his contract at 19, didn't play 11 games in the NHL that first season, thus set his waiver ineligibility at 4yrs... thus he will have to either be protected or exposed for the expansion draft, and won't be eligible for waivers until the 2018-2019 season.

Jason Dickinson is exempt from the expansion draft for the same reason he is exempt from waivers. Keep trying.

 

[Warden of the North]

Theyre all going to be bottom pair dmen or bottom 6th players (the waived ones). Not a big deal

 

[BruinsBtn]

Theyre all going to be bottom pair dmen or bottom 6th players (the waived ones). Not a big deal

3rd liners and bottom-pairing defensemen get traded for 1st and 2nd round draft picks at the deadline. It's a very big deal, especially if Vegas loads up on them.

They can take 7 extra bottom-pairing defensemen and essentially corner the market and then name their price.

 

[TaLoN]

Jason Dickinson is exempt from the expansion draft for the same reason he is exempt from waivers. Keep trying.

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/the-nhl-expansion-draft-is-coming-heres-who-the-stars-might-lose/247907743

The Stars will have to choose four of the following forwards to protect: Cody Eakin, Radek Faksa, Mattias Janmark, Jason Dickinson, Brett Ritchie, Val Nichushkin, Devin Shore, and Antoine Roussel. This is going to be tough. Without entertaining questions other than who should be protected, put a gun to my head and I’ll protect Cody Eakin, Radek Faksa, Mattias Janmark, and Val Nichushkin.

Don't have to try again... He's expansion draft eligible. He signed and turned pro at the same time Olofsson did, just that Olofsson was a year older at the time, which is why he's waiver eligible this season and Dickinson isn't.

 

[tony d]

Got to think they may use some of the extra guys as players on their minor league team.

 

[Barrie22]

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/the-nhl-expansion-draft-is-coming-heres-who-the-stars-might-lose/247907743


Don't have to try again... He's expansion draft eligible. He signed and turned pro at the same time Olofsson did, just that Olofsson was a year older at the time, which is why he's waiver eligible this season and Dickinson isn't.

Capfriendly is saying dickinson is exempt.

 

[Canada4Gold]

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/the-nhl-expansion-draft-is-coming-heres-who-the-stars-might-lose/247907743


Don't have to try again... He's expansion draft eligible. He signed and turned pro at the same time Olofsson did, just that Olofsson was a year older at the time, which is why he's waiver eligible this season and Dickinson isn't.

That article is from almost a year ago. I believe back then it wasn't confirmed how many pro games a player had to play in a junior aged season for it to count as a pro season. Since then it has been and Dickinson's 2 regular season and 3 playoff AHL games don't qualify, thus his 2014-15 season doesn't qualify as a pro season and he's only at 2 and exempt. Similar to Kapanen on the Leafs, his 4 regular season and 7 playoff AHL games that year don't count(as well as his 2015-16 junior aged season) so this is his 1st pro year that just passed. (edit: the rules are actually in that article so I'm not sure why they thought Dickinson's 14/15 handful of AHL games when he was 19 would count as a pro season)

The way the expansion rules were set up if you signed at 18 you have 5 years, 2 of those are junior aged years then your 3 pro years for you to become expansion eligible you also become waiver eligible. If it's 19 then 4 years, 1 junior aged followed by 3 pro years and you're eligible in both waivers and expansion. at 20 or more than it's 3 years or less to become waiver eligible while it takes all 3 pro years to be expansion eligible and thus waiver exempt once you are expansion exempt. If you signed at 18 or 19 and played enough NHL games to count as a pro season then your waiver eligibility was
also reduced to 3 years, all 3 years would count as pro for you to get to expansion eligible and you become waiver eligible at the same time.

The only exception I've seen is the 1 age group of goalies because goalies get an extra year of waiver exemption.

 

[Fondue]

I'm sure Vegas has a plan to convert those players who can't get sent to the minors for additional draft picks/prospects.

 

[mouser]

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/the-nhl-expansion-draft-is-coming-heres-who-the-stars-might-lose/247907743


Don't have to try again... He's expansion draft eligible. He signed and turned pro at the same time Olofsson did, just that Olofsson was a year older at the time, which is why he's waiver eligible this season and Dickinson isn't.

The article is incorrect, Dickinson is exempt. Here's the situation:

- Signing age 19, so three year ELC
- Waivers signing age 19, so four years of waiver exemption (shorted to 3 if he plays 11+ NHL games at age 19)

- 2014-15: Dickinson does not play 11+ NHL games so his ELC slides, he does not get credit for a Professional Season in the expansion draft.
- 2015-16: Dickinson Professional Season #1
- 2016-17: Dickinson Professional Season #2

Dickinson is a 2nd year Professional, thus exempt from the expansion draft.

 

[BruinsBtn]

I'm sure Vegas has a plan to convert those players who can't get sent to the minors for additional draft picks/prospects.

That's the intrigue, they can take 10 extra defensemen and corner the market and sit back and wait.

 

[Barrie22]

That's the intrigue, they can take 10 extra defensemen and corner the market and sit back and wait.

They are forced to take 9 defensemen, 14 forwards and 3 goalies.

At most they will be able to take 13 defense and trade 5 of them.

 

[93LEAFS]

Players with less than 2 years experience can't be drafted. Everyone with that much experience can't be sent down without waivers.

Basically the waivers rules are the same as the draft rules.

Name me one skater who Vegas could take that wouldn't need waivers to go to the AHL?

Kerby Rychel. Late birthdays can play 4 years on their ELC in the AHL.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Theyre all going to be bottom pair dmen or bottom 6th players (the waived ones). Not a big deal

I am sure Vegas will also have a few expensive contracts, perhaps a couple that they select in the draft and a few that are acquired via trade to add more draft picks (and help a few teams out).

We may see a situation where their most expensive players (aside from Shipyachov) are waived during or immediately following training camp.

Those guys will help them reach the cap floor and be ready to help the team if injuries hit.

I fully expect a highly competitive training camp for Vegas, with some name players not expected to make the club. They will be waived.

 

[Barrie22]

Kerby Rychel. Late birthdays can play 4 years on their ELC in the AHL.

Daniel altshuller in carlina also.
Nicolas aube kubel in philly.
Bailey justin in buffalo.
Nicolas baptiste in buffalo.
Ivan barshahev in st louis
Julius bergman in san jose
Tyler bertuzzi in detroit
Antoine bibeau in toronto
Chris bigras in colorado
Oliver bjorkstrand in columbus

Those are just the ones that are part way through the b names lol.

 

[mouser]

Kerby Rychel. Late birthdays can play 4 years on their ELC in the AHL.

Rychel is not waiver exempt next season. Though he does illustrate some of the oddities with the expansion draft, waivers and late birthdays.

Rychel is a late birthday (Oct 7th), signed his ELC on December 31st of his draft year.

- For ELC purposes he is considered an Age 18 signee, even though he was age 19 at the time he signed his contract.
- For Waiver purposes he is considered Age 19. This is where ELC age and Waiver age can diverge--the Waiver age calculation does not have the Age 18 exception that the ELC calculation does.
- As an Age 19 for Waivers, that means Rychel is waiver-exempt for 4 years: 2013-14, 2014-15, 2015-16, 2016-17.

The expansion draft quirk with Rychel's late birthday is that his ELC slid in 2013-14 and 2014-15. However because Rychel was Age 20 in 2014-15 the expansion draft rules credit him with a Professional Season that year. Making 2015-16 and 2016-17 his 2nd and 3rd professional seasons, and thus eligible for the expansion draft. There are other late birthday in the same situation like Anthony Mantha.

 

[mouser]

Daniel altshuller in carlina also.
Nicolas aube kubel in philly.
Bailey justin in buffalo.
Nicolas baptiste in buffalo.
Ivan barshahev in st louis
Julius bergman in san jose
Tyler bertuzzi in detroit
Antoine bibeau in toronto
Chris bigras in colorado
Oliver bjorkstrand in columbus

Those are just the ones that are part way through the b names lol.

Altshuller - Not waiver exempt in 2017-18
Aube-Kubel - Expansion exempt
Bailey - Expansion exempt
Babtiste - Expansion exempt
Barbashev - Expansion exempt
Bergman - Expansion exempt
Bertuzzi - Expansion exempt
Bibeau - Goalie. As noted earlier in the thread they can be expansion eligible and waiver exempt due to the extra year of waivers Goalies get.
Bigras - Expansion exempt
Bjorkstrand - Expansion exempt

 

[BruinsBtn]

Daniel altshuller in carlina also.
Nicolas aube kubel in philly.
Bailey justin in buffalo.
Nicolas baptiste in buffalo.
Ivan barshahev in st louis
Julius bergman in san jose
Tyler bertuzzi in detroit
Antoine bibeau in toronto
Chris bigras in colorado
Oliver bjorkstrand in columbus

Those are just the ones that are part way through the b names lol.

Can any of those guys be drafted by Vegas?

Edit: I see that's been answered. Lol indeed

 

[Barrie22]

Can any of those guys be drafted by Vegas?

Edit: I see that's been answered. Lol indeed

Lots of them have 3 years pro. So again weird how they do it.