Post-Game Talk: [EX3] Canucks lose to Kraken | 1-3 (Garland)

[Brookbank]

6 wins and 1 loss in 2008
7 wins and 2 losses in 2009
3 wins and 5 losses in 2010
3 wins and 5 losses in 2011

I give that core a pass for slacking off in 2010 and 2011. They played like ass but you were never concerned once the regular season came around.

This group has proven nothing. I don't expect playoff hockey in these mean nothing game but at least show some good habits.

I remember those strong 08 and 09 starts now. Then yeah, we knew we were legit by 2010/11 and it didn't matter. It is the exact opposite of today. We don't know what we have.

I think this team is stronger than it gets credit for on paper. But can we make anything out of it remains to be seen

 

[mossey3535]

IMO Tocchet knows he can't cut Joshua because nobody else can do what he can physically so he called him out publically and then simultaneously is playing the crap out of him so he gets into hockey shape fast.

 

[Vector]

Need to cut a bunch of guys and start dressing more representative rosters. A whole bunch of guys playing who have zero chance of making the team and when you have Dries-Sasson playing half the game at C with Juulsen/Irwin/Brisebois as half your D group you're going to get badly outshot.

- thought the Cole-Hronek pairing was very solid and Hronek was probably the best Canuck, so that was a positive. Both guys just very solid, in the right places, no breakdowns.

- rest of the D was ... ehhhhhhh. Juulsen just isn't an NHL player unless he's got Quinn Hughes carrying him. Irwin is slooooooooow. Brisebois really struggles to move the puck. Wolanin I thought was the best of the group generally but then made a bad PK clear on the winning goal.

- Sasson and Bains are both competing hard and if they keep doing this they'll have big years in the AHL and can come back and compete strongly for jobs next year. Not really sure why Sasson got 3 preseason games but he did have easily his best game tonight. Both should be cut now.

- Brock Boeser ... wow. I actually found myself hoping that maybe he'd be in better shape and look quicker this year, but this was as bad as he's ever looked. Just an absolute slug floating around, when he gets the puck he's just scooping it into space for a line change. Zero intensity, did nothing positive tonight.

- Miller didn't do much at ES but I thought he had some good PK shifts.

- PDG was our best forward overall, I thought. Baffled by some of the criticism here. Very good on the forecheck, won lots of battles, didn't get a lot of support. Solid player.

- the Beauvillier-Suter-Garland line was not bad. Scored a goal, had a few chances.

- Dries at C is Dries at C. The guy should only ever be on wing.

- Joshua had another strong physical game, some good shifts deep in the Seattle zone. Has probably pulled himself out of danger of getting cut.

- Podkolzin is just kinda sad to watch right now. So timid and confused-looking out there. Zero assertiveness, poor body language. I don't see how he can make the team over a guy like Studnicka who is doing the exact opposite things.

- Linus Karlsson : why is he still getting games?

- Demko looked very sharp which is the other big positive from this game.

- I talked about Ryker Evans a bit in the Abbotsford thread last year and that guy is going to be a very good NHL player, probably this year. The Belanger kid for Seattle was also impressive.

Karlsson/Bains/Sasson types all need to be cut. Need to thin out the blueline, too, and need to be getting 14-15 NHL players in the lineup for the last 3 games and building some possession and momentum.

I think the reason a lot of guys are still on the roster is because waivers only opened today and they were playing these back to back games. Every remaining pre-season game is a home game going forward. Don't even have any sort of road game until the 14th.

 

[biturbo19]

Bains gets outmuscled, Wolanin misses his assignment and Sasson skates out of position chasing and gets burned .....but that's on Podkolzin?

That's such a weird breakdown of that play.

That's not Wolanin "missing an assignment". Classic instance of, "when the forwards f*** up, just blame some vaguely nearby defenceman instead". He's gotta worry about keeping that back door wide side tap-in from happening there. He'd look like a complete idiot if he went charging out into the slot to deal with a guy walking right down mainstreet from well above the faceoff circles completely unchecked and it's an easy cross-crease tap-in behind him instead.

That was entirely on the Forwards just goofing up there. Bains and Sasson completely botching pressure in the corner like you said. Getting overcommited and out of position and beaten to the high danger area, respectively. Podz just caught flatfooted indecisive in no man's land. Didn't really seem to take on any particular assignment...mostly just loitering in the slot.

 

[wonton15]

All the cuts but a few should happen after this game. Roster should shake out pretty clear but some line changes should probably happen:

Beauvillier Pettersson Kuzmenko
Hoglander Miller Garland
PDG Suter Boeser
Joshua Blueger Aman/Studnicka

Hughes Soucy
Cole Hronek
Wolanin Myers (ugh)
Irwin

- Keep playing McWard in preseason to see if he’s got it
- Hoglander can’t start on the first line. Give him looks beside Miller. Beau can play on that line until Mikheyev is back.
- Boeser is just a slug and brings down JT

 

[logan5]

I guess Podz didn't look all that good again tonight either. It's a bad sign for a young guy looking to have a break-out season. Starting to lose hope in him. I thought he would develop into a Mark Messier lite, which is what we need to round out the team.

 

[DFAC]

Different year - same pathetic efforts. Are we even surprised at this point?

12 shots in a preseason game is actually difficult to do lol

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

It just brought this entire city down to the level of the worst of the 2022 season, right out of the gate. We need a good start. And you couldn't have played it worse if you tried when you lose 10 nothing. Have we recovered from it ? Doesn't look like it to me.

Was a great effort by the Canucks against the Oilers (who also pretty much iced their opening night lineup)..Your reading way too much into the pre season imo...Especially when you're unable to account for the disparity of the rosters.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I guess Podz didn't look all that good again tonight either. It's a bad sign for a young guy looking to have a break-out season. Starting to lose hope in him. I thought he would develop into a Mark Messier lite, which is what we need to round out the team.

Am I seeing this correctly?

 

[MS]

Was a great effort by the Canucks against the Oilers (who also pretty much iced their opening night lineup)..Your reading way too much into the pre season imo...Especially when you're unable to account for the disparity of the rosters.

Yeah, first game was the Abbotsford Canucks getting killed, 2nd game was a pretty damn good effort against the opening night Oilers, this game was a really weak spine at C and D.

Next 3 games will probably look much better with stronger rosters at home.

 

[Breakers]

And here I thought we moved on from Travis Green

Same trash possession, horrific neutral zone play

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

And here I thought we moved on from Travis Green

Same trash possession, horrific neutral zone play

It did look like Travis Green hockey..no flow, and a neutered offence..To be fair though, it looked like both teams tonight played the same way..End result was somewhat of a sloppy boring game.

 

[Canuckle1970]

THEY'RE GOING HOME !

 

[Peen]

https://x.com/randipjanda/status/1707621221154832609?s=46&t=blsAIIexFWydhJ6B9G1M4A

Am I seeing this correctly?

There was a big meme on twitter with one of the big Benning bros saying he’d be minimum a better Mark Stone like a year ago

 

[sting101]

What a dud game...pathetic given the competition.

Miller Boeser Hronek Cole Beauvillier Garland Demko finding their legs....not gonna say too much here...Garland and Hronek looked good

Irwin Juulsen Brisebois struggled to make quality plays, Wolanin had moments of good and bad.

Joshua with another game cementing his role

Suter is coming along smart player but in the grand scheme i'm still not sure where he fits

Sasson with really good wheels and hustle but the NHL is about playing smart and fast. Probably time to send him down and let him build his pro game.

Bains looked like the back to back was asking too much at this point.

Karlsson too slow to do anything threatening. Dries looks cooked.

PDG is a fringe player who does a lot of things right. If he plays with Miller and Boeser that's an indictment against management and many players considering the money spent on wingers.

Podkolzin looks awful. No way to sugar coat it. As nice as the McWard Raty developments are the Podkolzin Hoglander developments are looking like were without a single top9 forward from the 2019 group when it was looking like we pulled 2 up until last year.

Time to thin the herd and let all the newcomers gel with the incumbents

 

[arttk]

Yeah, first game was the Abbotsford Canucks getting killed, 2nd game was a pretty damn good effort against the opening night Oilers, this game was a really weak spine at C and D.

Next 3 games will probably look much better with stronger rosters at home.

the team is not really deep enough to split into 2 on a back to back.

 

[me2]

I expect 2/3 of the AHL guys to get cut before the next game. The only thing some of them can do is just mess up the cap by getting injured. Hirose McWard and Wollanin should get a couple of games to see who wins out. Not much on offense that matters, main roster or bust.

 

[MS]

the team is not really deep enough to split into 2 on a back to back.

No.

It's also really weird that they didn't play Hirose or Rathbone in either. The D *really* struggled to move the puck today and I don't know why Brisebois was playing B2B.

 

[biturbo19]

Anyway...that was hard to watch. Both literally and figuratively. Missed the first. But some general thoughts from the rest...


-I can definitely see now why Tocchet/Foote appear to have firmly decided that Cole-Hronek is basically a "set in stone" pairing. They complement and play off each other really well. I do wish there was a little bit more overlap in their skillsets. It feels like a caricature of those old hockey videogames where you'd get a "bonus" or whatever if you paired a "Defensive D" with an "Offensive D". But seeing some chemistry there was a bright spot.


-Thought Wolanin was probably our 3rd best defenceman tonight. Not saying much. Had the one bad ooof clear on the play where out entire PK basically just simultaneously shat themselves with a greater display of coordination and choreography than any other "systems work" we've seen thus far.

-Overall though, he displayed a lot of ranginess, and ended up doing a lot of extra work because the forwards and guys like Juulsen appear to be more or less useless at moving the puck even just with safe up the wall plays. Juulsen did have a few good instances in the offensive end of putting pucks toward the net, but that was it. Just a clear "organizational depth player" with his limitations on display tonight, nothing more.

-Brisebois might still have a shot at cracking the roster, purely because he's shown some weird chemistry with the giraffe who is a complete lock. But without him, looked extremely tweener "depth call-up who might not kill you".


-Boeser is just so painful to watch. He makes every single puck battle or race for a puck or clearing opportunity look like he's just hanging on for dear life. He's just so lacking in acceleration and speed...it's like he knows this and just bails on even trying to skate himself into better position. Just throws pucks willy nilly through bad lanes that aren't there, coughs up pucks every time he gets caught. Also just eyeballed it, but it feels like he's still prone to taking too long of shifts...which is particularly catastrophic because his conditioning doesn't seem great, and his already abysmal accelerate erodes even further later in shifts.


-PDG doesn't have the natural offense to really thrive and score a bundle with that line, but he's the only one who really seems interested in doing any spadework or minding his own zone or anything. Didn't really drag them down or get in the way offensively...they did that themselves.


-Podkolzin basically looks like a timid, poor man's version of PDG at this point. Really just looks like he's got too many things going through his head on the ice, and/or lacks the processing power to keep pace with decisions until the options have all passed him by. Offensively and defensively.


-Suter looked...largely as expected. Not really...anything. Just sorta there sometimes. If he ends up just floating around the lineup, i guess that's fine. Seemed to make sense to me to roll him with Garland and just let them play a "offensive 4th line role" once the lineup actually comes together. They seemed to work together i guess.


-Lots of AHL-bound clutter still around. Hopefully they start to narrow it down to NHL roster guys and rotating the bubble guys through opportunities to see if anyone feels like taking the bull by the horns...or just nah.

 

[arttk]

No.

It's also really weird that they didn't play Hirose or Rathbone in either. The D *really* struggled to move the puck today and I don't know why Brisebois was playing B2B.

Probably last chance before getting cut?

 

[MS]

Probably last chance before getting cut?

I dunno. Doesn’t feel like Brisebois would be cut yet? But maybe?

They definitely need to start thinning the herd.

 

[orcatown]

Was apparent in this game that Seattle was better organized. And the lack of organization on the Canucks part has been an on-going reason for the Canucks poor starts. Every year we are bringing in a bunch of new players and trying to integrate them into a team. But that process of building up your systems takes years. You look at the teams that have success and there is a continuity in their lineup. Teams often take years getting the players solidly within their team game. You can look at some teams today who have kept their rosters consistent and now look to be contenders. Also the successful teams of the past like Tampa built up their systems over several seasons before having success. Really that is the difference in lots of games. One team has taken the time to develop systems to the point that every one knows how to play off one another and knows what to expect in different situations. Thus they don't make many mistakes even when under pressure. The Canucks, on the other hand, are often trying to figure it out on the run and are prone to crucial mistakes (like the line change in the third)

The team is trying to get their systems established top to bottom in the organization but that takes time to realize any success.

As it is, the Canucks are in tough to immediately have their overall game down by the time the seasons starts. You only hope this doesn't put them behind the eight ball like it has in the past.

Far as this game goes:

Boeser continues to struggle. In the past some have insisted Boeser is more important to the team than someone like Garland. I just don't understand how anyone can think this. To me, the Boeser situation is a little like the Virtanen situation. Some of us said over and over again get rid of Virtanen - he is no good and never will be. But people kept on coming up with excuses and reasons why we just had to wait on him. But it was clear Virtanen could not play. Same with Boeser. Some think he will suddenly emerge if we just train him up right, let him overcome family problems, or get him in the right position. Truth is he is a very poor skater and is terrible defensively. That is not going to change. There is nothing you can do about it now but as some have said if he wasn't named Boeser he would be quickly off to Abbotsford

Hronek - wilted a bit in the third but overall showed well.

Sasson has shown throughout the pre-season some good game management skills. Might have been as good as Suter in this game. However, doesn't have Suter's s wheels

Brisebois - on a trajectory to make the team in a back up role. Outplayed Wolanin in this game.

Cole - didn't really see much from him in this game. Best you can say is he looked ok.

Podkolzin - thought he skated better but got little accomplished. Did not look to be guessing as much.

Beauvillier - NHL skater. Should be back on the line with Pettersson to start the season.

Bains - apparently has a cheering section but he makes too many mistakes. Has improved status as prospect but still has lot ground to cover before he is ready. Can he get more flow in his play?

Miller - hopefully better when the actual season gets started - needs to stay way from bad penalties

Di Guiseppe - workman-like effort. Good on the PK. Could say the same for Irwin.

Just cut already

Juulsen
Karlsson
Dries

Big thanks to posters who allowed us to watch this game. I was frankly adrift in the bowels of Utube before I got straightened out.

 

[biturbo19]

PDG is a fringe player who does a lot of things right. If he plays with Miller and Boeser that's an indictment against management and many players considering the money spent on wingers.

It's truly remarkable how many wingers we have, and how much is invested there. To only really have...2 genuinely dynamic, skilled, clear cut Top-6 ones in the whole group. Both recent FA signings by this group.

We've just got so many who are like, "i'm a Top-6 peacock coach, you've gotta let me fly!" And then they can't actually fly. So...idk what they're really doing. Plus Garland who is weird and confusing, but at least seems able to drive play from the Bottom-6 somehow...even if he doesn't work in the Top-6 at all for us.

Time to thin the herd and let all the newcomers gel with the incumbents

Yeah. Definitely time to start getting more serious about figuring which, if any of the "bubble guys" are going to step up and find a role by slotting them in with the "locks" to test chemistry in actual game situations.

 

[tyhee]

Wait, what?

He led the team in scoring and looked terrific and Green inexplicably benched him for the first couple games of the season, causing an uproar.

I've always had a different view on this from most.

I remember him starting the preseason like an all-star, then getting lazy and stinking the joint out in his last two preseason games. Unlike those who were upset by it, I thought benching him was the right thing to do with a young player showing laziness.

I know most people think Green did something idiotic in benching him. In my opinion it was the right thing to do and certainly nobody can say it hurt the team. The Canucks took 3 of 4 points in the two games Boeser was benched and Boeser came back into the lineup, played probably the best hockey of his career and earned consideration for the Calder Trophy.

 

[biturbo19]

Probably last chance before getting cut?

Felt to me more like, maybe they think Brisebois really is on the cusp of the NHL roster and wanted to get another look with him alongside a different group/different D partners? See how he holds up physical with back to backs?


But could just be they wanted one last quick look before they try to slip him through waivers before other teams sort out all their own depth options. Ty Smith getting waived today had me wondering if they'd look at bringing in and outside guy. Which would mean slipping Brisebois through waivers for sure. So it could be that. Who knows. Weird though.