Evgeny Kuznetsov: Part 3

[Burakovsky95*]

that's enough. the caps suck. the gm sucks. the coach sucks. the players suck. those that don't suck are doomed to never being as good as they could be because they are caps. ov would he a 5 time hart winner and multi time cup winner anywhere else but Columbus and Kuznetsov's career is already wasted as he puts the uni on for the first time.

good god. why is this your team?? self loathing?

I don't understand your blind optimism. You just want to be different for some stupid reason.

 

[discobob]

You could tell he was hesitant to get involved in that aspect. I'd guess some of the reason is due to his shoulder issues, I'm sure there is a certain mental hump he needs to get over.

He definitely needs to bulk up, though.

I thought that was pretty obvious too. Love them or hate them, both Crosby and Malkin can work the boards. To be an elite center it's a requisite skill. It would be cool if he could develop that, but who knows?

 

[SkinsFan09]

that's enough. the caps suck. the gm sucks. the coach sucks. the players suck. those that don't suck are doomed to never being as good as they could be because they are caps. ov would he a 5 time hart winner and multi time cup winner anywhere else but Columbus and Kuznetsov's career is already wasted as he puts the uni on for the first time.

good god. why is this your team?? self loathing?

It's a good thing you're not GM, since you have proven over and over to accept mediocrity.

 

[TheNuge]

Kuznetsov would look amazing on a line with ovi and backstrom...im impressed with the guy...3 assists in 9 minutes of work...Has the potential to become a superstar, ive been excited to see him play in the nhl, from the moment he lit up canada in the world juniors...and boy he hasnt disappointed.

 

[FloridaCap]

Kuznetsov would look amazing on a line with ovi and backstrom...im impressed with the guy...3 assists in 9 minutes of work...Has the potential to become a superstar, ive been excited to see him play in the nhl, from the moment he lit up canada in the world juniors...and boy he hasnt disappointed.

Not sure that anybody would look good with Backstrom and Ovechkin because those two aren't even good together anymore. Their styles no longer fit each other. Each has evolved as a player and while both are still great, they have grown away from each other, style wise. Backstrom excels at a slower paced game with possession, while Ovechkin excels at a faster game.

Right now I'd like 21-90-8, 92-19-43/20/16, but ideally 90-84-8, 92-19-43/20/16

 

[Capsman]

The biggest problem with Kuz is his board work. Not that he can't progress, but he is not currently built to cycle the puck. We may not want him to play that type of offense, but it still a skill that he has to have.

Part of board work is quickness. If you watch how teams often burn us along the boards it's with quick acceleration and deceleration and changes of direction. The Caps have a dearth of players like that, but I see Kuz with that ability. While I cannot yet say much about his top speed, he seems to have the ability to create space quickly.

 

[RandyHolt]

While I highly doubt Oates will do it, I think its wise for him to teach Kuz's line to avoid the blind dump ins where Kuz is easily first to the puck, first to get clobbered. Lets coach up our 4th line to possess on the entry and try a simple pass / shoot play, results be damned. And if passing to Kuz, make it a slapper / as hard as possible.

While I agree with Capsman that board work is not always physical strength, I do think Kuz should be able to hang in the MJ class at minimum. I would be thrilled if he ended up in the Ribeiro / Erat class of board work, using quickness and puck skills versus brute strength

 

[g00n]

You may be telling yourself that it was only one game and it’s too early to get excited, but Kuznetsov’s performance tonight puts him in rare company. He is the first Caps rookie to earn three assists in a game since Nicklas Backstrom in 2008. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, he is also the first player to record three or more assists in one of his first three NHL games since Anze Kopitar recorded three in his second game in 2006.

http://www.csnwashington.com/hockey...talk/kuznetsovs-three-point-night-lifts-caps?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

He spent most of the 11-12 season either with Ovie and Backstrom or Ovie and Laich, and put up 18-15-33. His last two seasons in Chicago, he went 22-18-40 and 17-19-36 with Toews and Kane as his most common linemates each year. Either Ribeiro is a far superior player to all of the above, or last season was a fluke.

He's a career 14% shooter.

Last year he shot 17.1

This season he's shooting 14.3 and on pace for 22g, which would tie his career high in 09-10 when he shot 19% (now that I would have called a fluke). However he's now had 2 seasons above his career average, suggesting that his top end is higher. He's done it multiple seasons now. No longer qualifies as a fluke to me.

The significant stat I see is that Brouwer isn't getting the shots he was getting last season and yes, that's IMO, on the loss of Ribeiro (not getting as many quality setups) AND on increased defensive coverage. The NHL knows he can score from that slot area now and I believe are taking his shot away more. Last season he had 111 shots in 47 games (2.36/game), this season he's got 126 in 68 games (1.85/game). That same pace would have only given him 87 shots on goal last year. If he has that shots on goal pace THIS season, he would be around 28 goals at year end at his career average 14% shooting.

I'm clearly not saying Ribeiro is a better player than those you listed, however sometimes chemistry just makes players play better together and I think that was the case with that duo last season.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The biggest problem with Kuz is his board work. Not that he can't progress, but he is not currently built to cycle the puck. We may not want him to play that type of offense, but it still a skill that he has to have.

I think that physical play will certainly be his biggest area he'll have to adapt to. Tighter spaces, bigger and more physical players. I'm interested to see how he responds to top pair defensive coverage.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I think that physical play will certainly be his biggest area he'll have to adapt to. Tighter spaces, bigger and more physical players. I'm interested to see how he responds to top pair defensive coverage.

I would be shocked if any coach takes the top pair defensive match ups off Ovie and Nick. Kuz will continue to see 3-4 /5-6 dman.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I would be shocked if any coach takes the top pair defensive match ups off Ovie and Nick. Kuz will continue to see 3-4 /5-6 dman.

I was thinking of him eventually getting playing time with that top combo....

 

[Bananas]

What about backstrom and Kuz +1 as a line? Let Ovie fend for himself until Grabo returns or someone pulls their head out of their ass and plays mojo at center.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

He's a career 14% shooter.

Last year he shot 17.1

This season he's shooting 14.3 and on pace for 22g, which would tie his career high in 09-10 when he shot 19% (now that I would have called a fluke). However he's now had 2 seasons above his career average, suggesting that his top end is higher. He's done it multiple seasons now. No longer qualifies as a fluke to me.

The significant stat I see is that Brouwer isn't getting the shots he was getting last season and yes, that's IMO, on the loss of Ribeiro (not getting as many quality setups) AND on increased defensive coverage. The NHL knows he can score from that slot area now and I believe are taking his shot away more. Last season he had 111 shots in 47 games (2.36/game), this season he's got 126 in 68 games (1.85/game). That same pace would have only given him 87 shots on goal last year. If he has that shots on goal pace THIS season, he would be around 28 goals at year end at his career average 14% shooting.

I'm clearly not saying Ribeiro is a better player than those you listed, however sometimes chemistry just makes players play better together and I think that was the case with that duo last season.

In the post I was quoting, you said that if Brouwer's with a playmaker "he's a 30G guy easily." The fact that he's been a 20-20 guys over three seasons with some pretty elite playmakers is enough for me to doubt that.

It seems to me that he not only needs an elite playmaker, he also needs to be the primary scoring threat on his line so he can get that extra half a shot per game, and that when he gets that opportunity he forgets to grind or play defense, kind of like what Laich used to do when he played with Backstrom and Ovie and stopped playing his game. Maybe the Caps could make that happen, but considering the Ribeiro-Brouwer line was a net negative last year despite his goals, I don't see the incentive for it.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

In the post I was quoting, you said that if Brouwer's with a playmaker "he's a 30G guy easily." The fact that he's been a 20-20 guys over three seasons with some pretty elite playmakers is enough for me to doubt that.

It seems to me that he not only needs an elite playmaker, he also needs to be the primary scoring threat on his line so he can get that extra half a shot per game, and that when he gets that opportunity he forgets to grind or play defense, kind of like what Laich used to do when he played with Backstrom and Ovie and stopped playing his game. Maybe the Caps could make that happen, but considering the Ribeiro-Brouwer line was a net negative last year despite his goals, I don't see the incentive for it.

And like I said, chemistry matters. I also said pair him with a playmaker of Crosby's ilk and you could get 30g production (since Kunitz was used as the previous example by someone else) I DIDN'T say pair him with a playmaker. Toews and Backstrom aren't Crosby. It's clear he's not getting the shots per game he did last season and that matters in goal production. The numbers are right there to see...why ignore the blackhole that was the 3rd member(s) of that line when you talk about "net negative"? Only serves to piss on Brouwer more I guess...Maybe a credible 3rd member of that line makes a difference....I suspect it would.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

And like I said, chemistry matters. I also said pair him with a playmaker of Crosby's ilk and you could get 30g production (since Kunitz was used as the previous example by someone else) I DIDN'T say pair him with a playmaker. Toews and Backstrom aren't Crosby. It's clear he's not getting the shots per game he did last season and that matters in goal production. The numbers are right there to see...why ignore the blackhole that was the 3rd member(s) of that line when you talk about "net negative"? Only serves to piss on Brouwer more I guess...Maybe a credible 3rd member of that line makes a difference....I suspect it would.

So all we have to do to get that extra 10 goals out of Brouwer is acquire Crosby. It's so simple!

When there's a credible third member on the line he gets overshadowed. Happened with Ovie, happened with Kane. And what exactly is so different about Backstrom's game compared to Ribeiro's? The fact that he (at the time at least) didn't sell out for offense and flub his responsibilities in his own zone?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

So all we have to do to get that extra 10 goals out of Brouwer is acquire Crosby. It's so simple!

I think that would work sure! Sadly that's not what I suggested. I'm simply pointing to the causes of the difference in Brouwer's pace from last year to this...

BCF was the one who pulled the "Look at Kunitz, that's what a $3.7 mil winger should look like" card out.....


Well no ***** Sherlock, pair someone with the best scoring forward in the league and you get what Kunitz is producing.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Here’s what the lineup looked like in practice:


Johansson-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Kuznetsov-Wellman-Brouwer
Chimera-Fehr-Ward
Penner-Beagle-Wilson
Aaron Volpatti (LTIR with a shoulder injury) skated as an extra.

Alzner-Carlson
Hillen-Green
Orlov-Carrick

Halak, Holtby.

 

[Carlzner]

I think that would work sure! Sadly that's not what I suggested. I'm simply pointing to the causes of the difference in Brouwer's pace from last year to this...

BCF was the one who pulled the "Look at Kunitz, that's what a $3.7 mil winger should look like" card out.....


Well no ***** Sherlock, pair someone with the best scoring forward in the league and you get what Kunitz is producing.

Except Kunitz isn't a product of Crosby, he's a legit 1st line winger.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Except Kunitz isn't a product of Crosby, he's a legit 1st line winger.

LOL....then why isn't he paid like one? He's a 1st line winger with Crosby. He's a glorified 20g scorer without that's why.


Just to follow up, I do think Kunitz is a legit top line wing, just not a star top line wing. It works with Crosby....shocker. There's a reason this will be his best career year...

 

[SpringfieldSkins]

I would prefer to see Kuznetsov contributing to skate with Wilson. That line was the best line out there against Vancouver.

I do NOT want Kuznetsov with Ovi and Backstrom. That'll turn into a one demensional line like it is when MoJo is up there. Ovechkin and two idiots there to pass him the puck. Do not want.

Give Kuznetsov someone like Wilson who's hungry and can play the dirty game. Pair that with a decent center, even Beagle would do to be honest.

The guy can be a star and shouldn't be forced to play on a line designed to give Ovechkin scoring titles.

 

[Calicaps]

Here’s what the lineup looked like in practice:


Johansson-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Kuznetsov-Wellman-Brouwer
Chimera-Fehr-Ward
Penner-Beagle-Wilson
Aaron Volpatti (LTIR with a shoulder injury) skated as an extra.

Alzner-Carlson
Hillen-Green
Orlov-Carrick

Halak, Holtby.

Oates.

 

[dillyboy93]

I for one when/if Grabovski returns would like to see a Kuznetsov-Grabo-Wilson line

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

kuzya with brooks and brouwer... has anyone worked playing with those 2

 

[g00n]

I for one when/if Grabovski returns would like to see a Kuznetsov-Grabo-Wilson line

That was mentioned a few times in the GDT and yes it would be cool to see. So of course it won't happen under Oates.