OT: Everything COVID19 - PART 7

[Beech]

Not sure how you go from giving people who have to quarantine financial assistance to giving mass murders a few hundred grand . . . quite the awe inspiring argument there.

If I had to leave the country to visit a dying relative I would regardless of what I had to lose or do when i got back. But I'd certainly be very grateful for the assistance while I quarantined.

a quick guess on your part. How many Canadians have to leave this country to aid or attend to a close someone dying or terribly ill? My feeling, small. For them, assist.
How many people do you think, get sent on "necessary travel"? If you have been sent by a company, they are responsible for you. If you need to quarantine afterwards, they must pay. Otherwise, you can sue the pants off of them.

So all told, only the tinniest fraction of people should get this..And if you listened to PM Trudeau a few days ago. He explained just that.

The sad reality is; people want to do whatever they want and then have the rest of us pick up the tab.

This would be lovely. Can you imagine the millions of Canadians traveling to warm climates to Vacation. Come back home, sit at home for two weeks and receive a $1000. So great, a month off. Two weeks paid by your employer and 2 by the rest of us. Or better yet, go down and see a buddy in the US, hit Vegas for a week and get a $1000...How often will they check if you qualify? As in, do you work from home to begin with? Would that not be lovely?

One day common sense will come back to society. For now, we have to monitor it and treat it like children.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

a quick guess on your part. How many Canadians have to leave this country to aid or attend to a close someone dying or terribly ill? My feeling, small. For them, assist.
How many people do you think, get sent on "necessary travel"? If you have been sent by a company, they are responsible for you. If you need to quarantine afterwards, they must pay. Otherwise, you can sue the pants off of them.

So all told, only the tinniest fraction of people should get this..And if you listened to PM Trudeau a few days ago. He explained just that.

The sad reality is; people want to do whatever they want and then have the rest of us pick up the tab.

This would be lovely. Can you imagine the millions of Canadians traveling to warm climates to Vacation. Come back home, sit at home for two weeks and receive a $1000. So great, a month off. Two weeks paid by your employer and 2 by the rest of us. Or better yet, go down and see a buddy in the US, hit Vegas for a week and get a $1000...How often will they check if you qualify? As in, do you work from home to begin with? Would that not be lovely?

One day common sense will come back to society. For now, we have to monitor it and treat it like children.

People will always take advantage of systems put in place to help those who need it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have those systems.

 

[Sens]

160 for Ottawa today...

3500 province wide

people told me I was wrong saying lockdowns were having no impact

 

[Masked]

160 for Ottawa today...

3500 province wide

people told me I was wrong saying lockdowns were having no impact

They'd have a lot more impact if reckless people like yourself would actually adhere to them.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

160 for Ottawa today...

3500 province wide

people told me I was wrong saying lockdowns were having no impact

Do you think the numbers would be the same without the lockdown? Or less?

 

[Sens]

Do you think the numbers would be the same without the lockdown? Or less?

Less. At least indoor dining had restrictions.. now people are just gathering in homes with no rules to follow

 

[Sens]

They'd have a lot more impact if reckless people like yourself would actually adhere to them.

Go work at your offices, your warehouses and schools... but don’t you dare see people on your own time

 

[HSF]

Less. At least indoor dining had restrictions.. now people are just gathering in homes with no rules to follow

so you are saying people aren't following the lockdown rules

seems like the lockdown is not the issue

 

[Sens]

so you are saying people aren't following the lockdown rules

seems like the lockdown is not the issue

I just watched countless politicians and ceos of hospitals go on vacation after shutting down business

people are just following the leaders

 

[HSF]

I just watched countless politicians and ceos of hospitals go on vacation after shutting down business

people are just following the leaders

so again...lockdowns work if rules are followed

The issue is probably reinforcement

 

[Sens]

so again...lockdowns work if rules are followed

The issue is probably reinforcement

not possible at this point.. the majority have tuned out the government messaging

50% of Canadians visited others over Christmas

 

[Beech]

160 for Ottawa today...

3500 province wide

people told me I was wrong saying lockdowns were having no impact

The lockdowns may be working. It is difficult to verify.

At present, we are ~ 25 cases/100,000 people.
The USA is ~ 71 cases/100,000.
The UK is ~ 80 cases/100,000.

This is against tested only. No accounting for spread. If you correct for spread.

Canada ~ 100 cases/100,000 people
The USA is ~ 150 cases/100,000 people
The UK is ~ 170 cases/100,000 people

So we are still about 50% less. Now let it hit ~14,000 tested cases a day in Canada and yes, lockdowns did not work.

Ottawa is ~ 16 cases/100,000 as tested and ~ 80 cases/100,000 with spread. So we are still about 1/2 the rate of the "real bad". Should we hit ~300 a day? I would say they are not working.

I cannot figure out how our hospitals are coping. We passed the danger zone at ~8500 cases per day..That was a few days ago. Either the health care system is ablaze, or something, somewhere is wrong.

 

[Beech]

so again...lockdowns work if rules are followed

The issue is probably reinforcement

maybe not.

the USA, no rules 71 cases/100,000 as tested ~ 150 cases/100,000 after spread.
Canada ~ 25 cases/100,000 as tested ~ 100 Cases/100,000 after spread..and we have lockdowns and mask rules and we don't even carry guns.

Until last Friday, lockdowns appeared to be working beautifully. Since!!! Ouch...we are entering Germany Zone, France, etc. And we are only a stone's through away from the UK and the USA.

Let's hope things flatten out. at ~ 14,000 a day of national tested cases and we are the UK or the USA..But we speak clearer and we still don't carry guns and we have better teeth.

 

[Rand0m]

The lockdowns may be working. It is difficult to verify.

At present, we are ~ 25 cases/100,000 people.
The USA is ~ 71 cases/100,000.
The UK is ~ 80 cases/100,000.

This is against tested only. No accounting for spread. If you correct for spread.

Canada ~ 100 cases/100,000 people
The USA is ~ 150 cases/100,000 people
The UK is ~ 170 cases/100,000 people

So we are still about 50% less. Now let it hit ~14,000 tested cases a day in Canada and yes, lockdowns did not work.

Ottawa is ~ 16 cases/100,000 as tested and ~ 80 cases/100,000 with spread. So we are still about 1/2 the rate of the "real bad". Should we hit ~300 a day? I would say they are not working.

I cannot figure out how our hospitals are coping. We passed the danger zone at ~8500 cases per day..That was a few days ago. Either the health care system is ablaze, or something, somewhere is wrong.

I'm now curious to see what the curfew is going to do for our numbers in Quebec, finally a proper "lockdown", hopefully it works better with enforcement which they will do. I think the whole curfew is a month too late but better late than never I guess.

Things are getting out of hand and I'm guessing we're just at the start of the holiday spike right now so things are going to be really ugly this Jan. And when the numbers keep going up the first few weeks of lockdown, I'm fully expecting Sens to let us know how the lockdown isn't working again.

 

[Sens]

 

[Imnotagoodposter]

so you are saying people aren't following the lockdown rules

seems like the lockdown is not the issue

I work in a restaurant, can’t really wear a mask in the kitchen, have to taste food all the time and communicate. Around each other for 12+ hours at a time. Are we supposed to quit our jobs?

the restrictions don’t always make sense

 

[Beech]

I'm now curious to see what the curfew is going to do for our numbers in Quebec, finally a proper "lockdown", hopefully it works better with enforcement which they will do. I think the whole curfew is a month too late but better late than never I guess.

Things are getting out of hand and I'm guessing we're just at the start of the holiday spike right now so things are going to be really ugly this Jan. And when the numbers keep going up the first few weeks of lockdown, I'm fully expecting Sens to let us know how the lockdown isn't working again.

Sadly, regardless of our best efforts, there is a minimum price that we will pay. A poker ante if you like. The Europeans tried all sorts of things. Lock-downs, curfews, etc. It is like holding the ocean back with a bucket.

It has been argued a great deal. But the basic issue is health care. Keeping a small amount of free ICU beds available. I believe that we may be fighting a losing battle. We will flood, collapse the system for a short while. Then; fear, common sense, the vaccine, etc. will trip us back out of disaster. My gut feeling is: from basically today (and as of noon ~ 6500 cases and 163 deaths..can you imagine how today will end) until Feb 1 or so, our hide may be torn off.

 

[Masked]

Go work at your offices, your warehouses and schools... but don’t you dare see people on your own time

That's correct. Do your best to keep the economy going but there's a freaking pandemic so some sacrifices, namely seeing people socially, have to be made.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Less. At least indoor dining had restrictions.. now people are just gathering in homes with no rules to follow

So you believe that everyone who are currently gathering in homes, would instead go to restaurants AND follow the restrictions on dining in those restaurants? Why would the same set of people be willing to follow rules in one scenario but not in another?

 

[Masked]

So you believe that everyone who are currently gathering in homes, would instead go to restaurants AND follow the restrictions on dining in those restaurants? Why would the same set of people be willing to follow rules in one scenario but not in another?

His argument defies logic and common sense. He just seems to be grasping at straws to justify his actions.

 

[Sens]

I follow guidelines to a T

just yesterday I was asking my wife if she thinks Trudeau should write me a reference letter for the stay home and save lives portion of my resume

 

[The Lewler]

So you believe that everyone who are currently gathering in homes, would instead go to restaurants AND follow the restrictions on dining in those restaurants? Why would the same set of people be willing to follow rules in one scenario but not in another?

Dont look for logical consistency , you aren’t going to find it here.

 

[Beech]

be fair guys. I am guessing many of you do not work in retail or restaurants and other businesses. Those that do have taken a huge hit. One that will not be undone for sometime.

I am sympathetic to anyone in that kind of industry. Imagine life as an employee or owner of a gym...you are unemployed and possibly with a diminishing market for gyms..so you employment pool has also shrunk.

Now you start seeing escalating infection numbers and you have to correlate that against the lockdowns and ask: So why are we doing this?

I will be in that group if the total infection rate for Canada hits 14000. Considering that we have had a few days above 10,000 cases already, we may be awfully close.

 

[Masked]

Now you start seeing escalating infection numbers and you have to correlate that against the lockdowns and ask: So why are we doing this?

I don't understand when people complain about the lockdowns instead of the people who aren't following the rules of the lockdown. A rather cursory glance at social media makes it really obvious that many people don't give a crap. Why not shame these people that are causing infections to rise instead blaming the lockdowns that are a result of rising infections?

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

be fair guys. I am guessing many of you do not work in retail or restaurants and other businesses. Those that do have taken a huge hit. One that will not be undoes for sometime.

I am sympathetic to anyone in that kind of industry. Imagine life as an employee or owner of a gym...you are unemployed and possibly with a diminishing market for gyms..so you employment pool has also shrunk.

Now you start seeing escalating infection numbers and you have to correlate that against the lockdowns and ask: So why are we doing this?

I will be in that group if the total infection rate for Canada hits 14000. Considering that we have had a few days above 10,000 cases already, we may be awfully close.

Oh, I think there's very valid arguments that the impact to businesses doesn't justify the lockdown, or that the lockdown could be much better targeted, etc... @DaveMatthew presented some good ideas about a week ago.

But to use the current rising case numbers and use them as proof that the lockdown isn't working is pretty illogical. I mean, we don't know what the daily numbers would be if there was no lockdown, and most sane people would argue that they'd be higher. By how much? Impossible to say.

The real thing to understand is why the various politicians are implementing these measures when our hosptitals aren't yet in full blown crisis mode... and the answer to that is to read about the current state of things in California, and how quickly they got there. Ford, Legault, etc... are terrified of that.