OT: Everything COVID19 - PART 7

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FunkySeeFunkyDoo

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Feb 3, 2009
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Ottawa
Did you really expect things to go smooth?
Personally, I am not shocked that things are slow initially. What I would like though is some kind of analysis from the people in charge as to why it's going slow. There's a bottleneck somewhere in the flow, and things won't speed up until they eliminate that bottleneck... and to eliminate it you need to identify it first.

TBH, none of this seems like rocket science to me. From the moment the vaccine arrives to the final moment when it goes into somebodies arm there are a pretty well defined and manageable set of steps. Increasing the rate at which we can do any one of those setps should not be that hard.
 

Beech

Cicc' a porta
Nov 25, 2020
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Personally, I am not shocked that things are slow initially. What I would like though is some kind of analysis from the people in charge as to why it's going slow. There's a bottleneck somewhere in the flow, and things won't speed up until they eliminate that bottleneck... and to eliminate it you need to identify it first.

TBH, none of this seems like rocket science to me. From the moment the vaccine arrives to the final moment when it goes into somebodies arm there are a pretty well defined and manageable set of steps. Increasing the rate at which we can do any one of those setps should not be that hard.
Make diner for yourself. You cook, stand over the oven, stove/toaster oven, etc. and it takes some time depending on the complexity of the meal. Then, you either eat it out of the pot/pan/dish, etc. or you transfer it to a plate/bowl, etc. You sit, eat and all is done some 10-15 minutes later. Dump the handful of items in the sink or dishwasher and you are done in minutes. Heck, you can lick spoons, use your fingers, etc.

Now do the same for yourself and one guest..then 2 guests, 3 guests, etc. By the time you are 4 people all told, you have an event on your hands. Your time is 10 to 20 times longer, your effort is so much more, the dishes, dirt, inconvenience...It is remarkable how it grows non linearly with each added person. And I would not advise you to lick a spoon.

Now imagine feeding say 37.5 million people. So imagine coordinating for 37.5 million people a vaccine plan. All the while needing a few hundred thousand people coordinated. With no authority to order, threaten, compel. You have financial issues and no authority to authorize spending. You have lazy people, uncaring people, etc.

I get one guest on the weekend and all I do is dishes and cook. What the F must it be like to have a 5 person home and to have a further 2-5 guests???? It would take 10 minutes just to get people to sit at the dinner table. On my own, I would be finished the meal in that time.
 

DrEasy

Out rumptackling
Oct 3, 2010
11,012
6,709
Stützville
Personally, I am not shocked that things are slow initially. What I would like though is some kind of analysis from the people in charge as to why it's going slow. There's a bottleneck somewhere in the flow, and things won't speed up until they eliminate that bottleneck... and to eliminate it you need to identify it first.

TBH, none of this seems like rocket science to me. From the moment the vaccine arrives to the final moment when it goes into somebodies arm there are a pretty well defined and manageable set of steps. Increasing the rate at which we can do any one of those setps should not be that hard.
FWIW it's been slow in France too.
 

Here I Pageau Again

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Jul 4, 2012
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I’m also excited to (eventually when it’s my turn) get this new gen mRNA vaccine. The technology behind it is amazing and will change our future forever! We might be able to say goodbye to so diseases and have the ability to adapt these vaccines at incredibly fast rates as viruses mutate.


Oh you're telling me. The technology is so incredible. And not only could this change the way we vaccinate (especially like the Flu). This is also incredibly safe, especially for those who are pregnant and breastfeeding (which is huge for the healthcare world as a significant number of front line workers fit into that category).

I'm excited about it all.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,853
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If there's still some people who believe covidsajoke, maybe start watching last words before dying videos?



There's a ton of that, f***ing heartless motherf***ers
 
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Beech

Cicc' a porta
Nov 25, 2020
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Oh you're telling me. The technology is so incredible. And not only could this change the way we vaccinate (especially like the Flu). This is also incredibly safe, especially for those who are pregnant and breastfeeding (which is huge for the healthcare world as a significant number of front line workers fit into that category).

I'm excited about it all.
But wait, If you call now, we will double your order. All you have to do is pay separate shipping and handling. Hurry, don't wait, just call 1-800-xxx-xxxx and have your credit card ready. That's 1-800-xxx-xxxx and we will ship you two mRNA vaccines for the price of one.
 

FunkySeeFunkyDoo

Registered User
Feb 3, 2009
5,071
2,717
Ottawa
Make diner for yourself. You cook, stand over the oven, stove/toaster oven, etc. and it takes some time depending on the complexity of the meal. Then, you either eat it out of the pot/pan/dish, etc. or you transfer it to a plate/bowl, etc. You sit, eat and all is done some 10-15 minutes later. Dump the handful of items in the sink or dishwasher and you are done in minutes. Heck, you can lick spoons, use your fingers, etc.

Now do the same for yourself and one guest..then 2 guests, 3 guests, etc. By the time you are 4 people all told, you have an event on your hands. Your time is 10 to 20 times longer, your effort is so much more, the dishes, dirt, inconvenience...It is remarkable how it grows non linearly with each added person. And I would not advise you to lick a spoon.

Now imagine feeding say 37.5 million people. So imagine coordinating for 37.5 million people a vaccine plan. All the while needing a few hundred thousand people coordinated. With no authority to order, threaten, compel. You have financial issues and no authority to authorize spending. You have lazy people, uncaring people, etc.

I get one guest on the weekend and all I do is dishes and cook. What the F must it be like to have a 5 person home and to have a further 2-5 guests???? It would take 10 minutes just to get people to sit at the dinner table. On my own, I would be finished the meal in that time.

This is a reasonably good analogy, preparing and serving a meal to a number of dinner guests.

So, I'll point out:

1. You've described it as if you went from cooking for yourself to hosting an event and that was a complete surprise to you and it just happened and you'd never hosted a major event before.

But that's not what's happened. The real analogy is you had several weeks / months knowing that you were going to host an event AND it's an event that's similar to previous events you've been hosting for several several years. You've got experience, you knew it was coming, you had time to prepare and plan for it. I'm pretty sure in that case you didn't get to the day of the event and think "I should still be able to just wash all these dishes myself in one sink and everything will be fine." No, you would've thought to hire some more people to wash dishes and had sinks to wash them in and made sure you had enough dishes so that for each course you didn't have to wait on the dishes from the previous course to be washed. IE, the dishwashing step, when you think about it just in and of itself, is not hard to scale up to major event size and speed.

2. You've suggested that the problem needs to be solved for 37.5M people.

But that also is not correct. No single person or organization has to worry about the complete problem at that scale. It breaks down along provincial and municipal lines to much smaller scales. And at each of the federal / provincial / municipal lines there are different aspects of the problem that need to be solved, and ideally there's very little overlap. EG, nobody at the municipal level needs to worry about what chartered aircrafts are bringing the vaccine in to the country from the manufacturing plant... but somebody at the federal level must be on that and doing everything to make sure that step is reliable and fast.

Note again, I'm not even looking for the people running this project to have SOLVED all the bottlenecks already. They just should be able to have IDENTIFIED them...
 
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Beech

Cicc' a porta
Nov 25, 2020
2,876
982
This is a reasonably good analogy, preparing and serving a meal to a number of dinner guests.

So, I'll point out:

1. You've described it as if you went from cooking for yourself to hosting an event and that was a complete surprise to you and it just happened and you'd never hosted a major event before.

But that's not what's happened. The real analogy is you had several weeks / months knowing that you were going to host an event AND it's an event that's similar to previous events you've been hosting for several several years. You've got experience, you knew it was coming, you had time to prepare and plan for it. I'm pretty sure in that case you didn't get to the day of the event and think "I should still be able to just wash all these dishes myself in one sink and everything will be fine." No, you would've thought to hire some more people to wash dishes and had sinks to wash them in and made sure you had enough dishes so that for each course you didn't have to wait on the dishes from the previous course to be washed. IE, the dishwashing step, when you think about it just in and of itself, is not hard to scale up to major event size and speed.

2. You've suggested that the problem needs to be solved for 37.5M people. But that also is not correct. No single person or organization has to worry about the complete problem at that scale. It breaks down along provincial and municipal lines to much smaller scales. And at each of the federal / provincial / municipal lines there are different aspects of the problem that need to be solved, and ideally there's very little overlap. EG, nobody at the municipal level needs to worry about what chartered aircrafts are bringing the vaccine in to the country from the manufacturing plant... but somebody at the federal level must be on that and doing everything to make sure that step is reliable and fast.

Note again, I'm not even looking for the people running this project to have SOLVED all the bottlenecks already. They just should be able to have IDENTIFIED them...

you are very right. But I am simply cautioning you against oversimplifying the complexities that arise as the scale of a project grows. It really is not linear and unless you are brilliant and can think of everything, issues will arise and bog you down.
 

Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,289
3,692
Ottabot City
you are very right. But I am simply cautioning you against oversimplifying the complexities that arise as the scale of a project grows. It really is not linear and unless you are brilliant and can think of everything, issues will arise and bog you down.
I think it's safe to say our government is reactive as opposed to being responsive.

I think that's what I want to say.
 

FunkySeeFunkyDoo

Registered User
Feb 3, 2009
5,071
2,717
Ottawa
you are very right. But I am simply cautioning you against oversimplifying the complexities that arise as the scale of a project grows. It really is not linear and unless you are brilliant and can think of everything, issues will arise and bog you down.
Agreed.

Very much related to the topic is the fact that Ottawa Public Health yesterday released some details on their plan for vaccinating the city... I haven't read it yet, but it does involve 4 different sites, each of which can do 1200 jabs per day (so a total of 4800 per day for the city. I beleive these are supposed to be up and running within a 2 or 3 weeks.

Now this is very good news, AND it probably hints to why we've been slow so far.

Ottawa Public Health has just been doing vaccinations out of one site at the Civic campus (I think) . That was probably planned as just their "trial" site, where they would work out all the kinks of the process and make sure they understood how to work with this vaccine. It was probably limited to a few hundred jabs per day, at most, and that was probably always the plan (in their minds anyways).... IE the slow uptake across the country may be nothing more than each municipality not even TRYING to get their full system up and going yet.
 
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JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,130
9,701
you are very right. But I am simply cautioning you against oversimplifying the complexities that arise as the scale of a project grows. It really is not linear and unless you are brilliant and can think of everything, issues will arise and bog you down.

Money's not an object. Hire brilliant people.
 
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JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,130
9,701
Is there a stat on how many inmates have died from covid? I think could paint a good picture if it is that ridiculous. Though I don't remember hearing of 1 case in Canada yet.

I don't know anything about this issue but it could be a safety issue for corrections workers i suppose.
 

Here I Pageau Again

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Jul 4, 2012
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Beech

Cicc' a porta
Nov 25, 2020
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So none have died yet.
Boy unless something is happening that defies logic, I would have assumed that the lion's share of all inmates are in their 20-50 max. I would hate to think that our jails are packed with 80 year olds!!!

Given that this thing is deadly to 70 and above..what do most prisoners have to fear?
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,087
5,692
Ottawa
or maybe vacationing in the Caribbean, oh yea so far 4-5 ministers. This shit has been happening from day 1. People have disregarded rules, requests, common sense and decency. Now they want to get paid.

Great, why don't we start putting inmates on social assistance. What do you say, we pay every inmate 2-3 grand a month. The lifers, the mass murderers, etc. a few hundred grand.

If people had acted and act today in responsible fashion, this shit would be significantly less. Any f'ng politician who remotely approves payments will have me walking my legs down to the bone, knocking on doors to oust him/her.

And anyone leaving to help a dying relative, will not give a f*** about the $500. This is the selfishness of those who act selfishly.

Not sure how you go from giving people who have to quarantine financial assistance to giving mass murders a few hundred grand . . . quite the awe inspiring argument there.

If I had to leave the country to visit a dying relative I would regardless of what I had to lose or do when i got back. But I'd certainly be very grateful for the assistance while I quarantined.
 

Rand0m

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
1,272
987
The inmate thing really surprised me. I understand the risk of outbreaks in confined spaces like that but if there's any group that doesn't deserve to jump at the front of the line it's federal inmates. They can keep them isolated to their cells in the mean time for all I care, just like my 75yo father has been isolated in his condo for the past 10 months.

I hope just like the CERB for returning travellers, this will get rectified. On that point though, this is why we need a free press, they may often be wrong, they may hype and sensationalize some things, but they're also often the only ones looking into these kind of things and have the means to raise awareness to the rest of the population.
 

Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,289
3,692
Ottabot City
Boy unless something is happening that defies logic, I would have assumed that the lion's share of all inmates are in their 20-50 max. I would hate to think that our jails are packed with 80 year olds!!!

Given that this thing is deadly to 70 and above..what do most prisoners have to fear?
They probably only really get the news while inside. Media makes it out that everyone can die.
 
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