OT: Everything COVID19 - PART 6

[Icelevel]

Doctor on the news said pregnant woman won’t in the vaccine study so they will not be allowed to get the vaccine

Was curious about the pregnant women yeah

 

[BankStreetParade]

Science though said it was good

Who the f*** is Spectator Index?

 

[Beech]

I hadn't read that article yet, even if from April, quite interesting

8 times world leaders downplayed the coronavirus and put their countries at greater risk for infection


1) Chinese authorities downplayed the threat of the outbreak when it first began in December, failing to communicate crucial information, and allowing millions of people to travel throughout the world.

2) Italy's Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte downplayed the coronavirus infections in February, and the country's foreign minister accused the media of inflating information about the spread of the illness.

3) President Donald Trump has repeatedly downplayed the virus, calling it a "hoax" early on and claiming to have everything completely under control.

4) Prime Minister Boris Johnson and the UK government believed the coronavirus was a "moderate risk" up until late February, and were late to impose a national lockdown.

5) Iranian officials confidently told the country that the virus would not be a problem, and have been accused of withholding crucial information.

6) As COVIS-19 cases soared, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez allowed large gatherings to proceed in sports stadiums and rallies

7) Mexico's President Andrés Manuel López Obrador has blatantly ignored warnings over the coronavirus and has encouraged Mexicans not to succumb to "fear or psychosis."

8) Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro has repeatedly downplayed the coronavirus by calling it "a measly cold" and questioning the merits of social distancing measures that scientists have found successfully limit the spread of the virus.

I mean, a 40 y/o old virgin spreading false information from his parents basement is quite different than country leaders... These "leaders" should be ashamed and give their demission (IMO should be trialed for crime against humanity). They have failed their people and caused a lot more deaths and suffering than if they reacted as true leaders. And Trump had the nerves to even tried to get re-elected.

Italy, Spain, UK, USA, Mexico, Brazil, Iran among the most deaths per capita. Only China is not and I think it's because the population took the situation very seriously right away. I could dig more stuff but this article talks about it :

What's behind China's low COVID-19 death rate

"I talked to the students, I talked to the teachers, and I had the impression that there was a collective understanding that strict quarantine was really necessary in order to protect everybody."

"I tell you, in Wuhan, it almost becomes an instinct to wear a mask. If you go out without wearing a mask, you feel strange. It is that kind of awareness to help yourself to help others that really help cut the path of the contagiousness of the virus."

tip of the iceberg. What was once called eastern Europe (from Poland down to Yugoslavia) is being hammered. And I mean hammered. By the time this thing ends, they will be on their knees. You can go through the numbers and do basic math.

When the curtain lifts, we will see a death toll that will stagger us or much of the world. And as reports begin to surface of real death tolls the world over, it may come tragically close to the 2% that was predicted early in the year.

As to all the nations on your list. All are population heavy, all have poverty issues, all have a level of lawlessness that is staggering. Deaths in those nations are among the "undesirable", so in some circles it is seen as a good thing.

This is not humanity's worst nightmare. It is its unmasking. We saw how crappy we can be. Go get them Arizone, they are on par with most of the Eastern European nations.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Science though said it was good

I seriously doubt that any scientist in the field would have said that allergic reactions could not / would not happen.

When you get the normal flu shot, they force you to stay for 15 minutes afterwards on the possibility that you might have a reaction. I don't know how frequently people actually do react the flue vaccine, would be interested if any of the health care professionals on here actually had that info.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

tip of the iceberg. What was once called eastern Europe (from Poland down to Yugoslavia) is being hammered. And I mean hammered. By the time this thing ends, they will be on their knees. You can go through the numbers and do basic math.

When the curtain lifts, we will see a death toll that will stagger us or much of the world. And as reports begin to surface of real death tolls the world over, it may come tragically close to the 2% that was predicted early in the year.

As to all the nations on your list. All are population heavy, all have poverty issues, all have a level of lawlessness that is staggering. Deaths in those nations are among the "undesirable", so in some circles it is seen as a good thing.

This is not humanity's worst nightmare. It is its unmasking. We saw how crappy we can be. Go get them Arizone, they are on par with most of the Eastern European nations.

I don't think I saw the 2% estimate.

The estimate that I thought was interesting at the time and I still refer back to is from back in late February or early March, Sam Harris had a Johns Hopkins infectious disease specialist on his podcast to discus Covid. At the time they were really just in the early stages of understanding it, but it was very informative nonetheless. Throughout the podcast, Harris was trying to inject some level of "this is really dangerous" into the discussion, but the specialist kept responding as if the whole thing was no big deal ("sanguine" is the word Harris used to describe it.)

Finally, near the end, Harris asked him to predict how many people would die from Covid in the US. The guy gave a bunch of caveats but eventually threw out the number 800k.

Based on current state of things, that number looks high... but not outrageously high.

 

[thinkwild]

I seriously doubt that any scientist in the field would have said that allergic reactions could not / would not happen.

When you get the normal flu shot, they force you to stay for 15 minutes afterwards on the possibility that you might have a reaction. I don't know how frequently people actually do react the flue vaccine, would be interested if any of the health care professionals on here actually had that info.

Yeah i remember as a kid i used to get allergy shots and they would make you wait in the waiting room for 15-30 mins afterwards just in case you had a reaction for which they had what was needed to deal with it. I never had one and seldom actually waited. I think its part and parcel of any shot just like those drug company commercials with their list of potential bad reactions. All part of the science. Hopefully they will be able to isolate the ingredient causing the reaction. Apparently the two people reported to have had that reaction are now fine.

 

[Micklebot]

I seriously doubt that any scientist in the field would have said that allergic reactions could not / would not happen.

When you get the normal flu shot, they force you to stay for 15 minutes afterwards on the possibility that you might have a reaction. I don't know how frequently people actually do react the flue vaccine, would be interested if any of the health care professionals on here actually had that info.

I thought i read 1 in a million people have allergic reactions, but am not sure if that was specific to the flu or not.

While this isn't great, it's also not entirely unexpected or some terrible turn of events.

People with egg allergies are advised against getting certain flu shots for example because of potential reactions

 

[foggyvisor]

Health Canada approves BioNtech / Pzifer. Boom.

Developed in Germany. Manufactured in Belgium. Approved in Canada.

 

[Beech]

I don't think I saw the 2% estimate.

The estimate that I thought was interesting at the time and I still refer back to is from back in late February or early March, Sam Harris had a Johns Hopkins infectious disease specialist on his podcast to discus Covid. At the time they were really just in the early stages of understanding it, but it was very informative nonetheless. Throughout the podcast, Harris was trying to inject some level of "this is really dangerous" into the discussion, but the specialist kept responding as if the whole thing was no big deal ("sanguine" is the word Harris used to describe it.)

Finally, near the end, Harris asked him to predict how many people would die from Covid in the US. The guy gave a bunch of caveats but eventually threw out the number 800k.

Based on current state of things, that number looks high... but not outrageously high.

800K in a nation of 330-350 million (accounting for undocumented residents). At the time, the assumption was herd immunity and at 0.6-0.7 of the population, puts the death rate at 0.37%.

at present, the USA numbers are 0.71% death rate and that assumes no issues with reporting (as in accurate)..I have read many articles that suggest they are being low balled.

We have yet to see a real nightmare scenario of the vulnerable at 20%-30% of the daily cases or total cases. If that scenario unfolds, it will almost surely hit the 2% and then some. I have spent way too much time looking at basic numbers. If you focus on first world nations, the death rate could in a nightmare scenario, hit 2.4%, possibly as high as 4 or 5%, if for some crazy reason the vulnerable let themselves go in near suicide action. It has fluctuated between about 0.2% and 2.1% for periods in excess of 1 month or more(Italy March-June ~ 2.01%. NY state March-June ~ 1.96%). Much of the First world in the summer ~ 0.2%. Germany had a 0.7% day yesterday, all the while, at best the vulnerable may have been as high as 4.5% of the total infected the 10-15 days earlier.

Sadly, the scientist were correct. A British expert, and forgive me, I have little desire to go back and look. Predicted as far back as early February, 3% death. 70 percent to herd immunity. Making the net 2.1%. He may have been very accurate.

 

[Xspyrit]

tip of the iceberg. What was once called eastern Europe (from Poland down to Yugoslavia) is being hammered. And I mean hammered. By the time this thing ends, they will be on their knees. You can go through the numbers and do basic math.

When the curtain lifts, we will see a death toll that will stagger us or much of the world. And as reports begin to surface of real death tolls the world over, it may come tragically close to the 2% that was predicted early in the year.

As to all the nations on your list. All are population heavy, all have poverty issues, all have a level of lawlessness that is staggering. Deaths in those nations are among the "undesirable", so in some circles it is seen as a good thing.

This is not humanity's worst nightmare. It is its unmasking. We saw how crappy we can be. Go get them Arizone, they are on par with most of the Eastern European nations.

What do you mean "in some circles it is seen as a good thing"?

And basically every country has poverty issues but at varying degrees. Brazil and Mexico still have huge parts of their population that are poor, uneducated and live in minimal hygiene. I have seen it first hand. It's litterally a SHAME that countries like USA and UK have such poor results in the battle vs the virus. There's so many videos of people gathering and just acting like everything was totally normal. The thing is there's a part of your population that needs to be explained everything and what to do, so when your leader is Donald Trump, you're in big trouble.

Believe it or not, in march I was called SELFISH on this board because I said I was preparing my family to live in a bubble and that we were going to use masks in public (that was before any lockdown and/or mandatory masking). I was ready March 8th. Then there was this guy from my past harassing me and telling me I was in denial, brainwashed, lazy, etc because I thought the virus was real (which I verified with some personnal contacts of course) and social distancing was the best way to slow the spread (and help out public health including the health system). There's some people that simply leaves you scratching your head.

When I see how covidiots like Trump acted with this virus, I always think of PHD Greg Graffin's song "We're Only Gonna Die For Our Own Arrogance". The problem is that it's more innocents dying in general. Like it has been for wars, etc

Of course it is not humanity's worst nightmare, wars, genocides, terrorism and the holocaust are pretty hard to beat. Just the "Three Kingdoms War" killed close to 40 millions people.

That being said, I'm not sure what you were trying to tell me there?

 

[Knave]

Italy, Spain, UK, USA, Mexico, Brazil, Iran among the most deaths per capita. Only China is not and I think it's because the population took the situation very seriously right away. I could dig more stuff but this article talks about it :

What's behind China's low COVID-19 death rate

"I talked to the students, I talked to the teachers, and I had the impression that there was a collective understanding that strict quarantine was really necessary in order to protect everybody."

"I tell you, in Wuhan, it almost becomes an instinct to wear a mask. If you go out without wearing a mask, you feel strange. It is that kind of awareness to help yourself to help others that really help cut the path of the contagiousness of the virus."

I mean... part of it is Chinese officials lying about their numbers. The second part is China is a police state that actually locked down Wuhan because they can do whatever they want to their citizens. Liberal democracies and weak authoritarian regimes like Iran don't have that "luxury" of effective checkpoints, secret police, neighborhood informants to the government, etc... I say luxury jokingly because I'd rather have our model than the Chinese one. I wish we did better, I wish we had more hospital capacity, etc... I don't wish we were China. I am not willing to give away all my freedom to be slightly better at a once in a lifetime pandemic.

 

[Xspyrit]

I mean... part of it is Chinese officials lying about their numbers. The second part is China is a police state that actually locked down Wuhan because they can do whatever they want to their citizens. Liberal democracies and weak authoritarian regimes like Iran don't have that "luxury" of effective checkpoints, secret police, neighborhood informants to the government, etc... I say luxury jokingly because I'd rather have our model than the Chinese one. I wish we did better, I wish we had more hospital capacity, etc... I don't wish we were China. I am not willing to give away all my freedom to be slightly better at a once in a lifetime pandemic.

Of course, I don't know if my post made it sound like I wish we were living in a different political atmosphere but sorry if it did. My post was only focusing on people's reaction. I'm not mixing everything with politics.

You wish there was more hospital capacity, I wish people would have taken this more seriously, been more resilient and less selfish. When you have 10-20% of your population going "against the grain", it really makes things more complicated. The thing is it's even worse in some countries. In France, my native country who is now a big f***ing mess, filled with eternal "rebels" (but not heroes like in Star Wars, just dissidents), the ratio of population who believes covid is a big hoax is probably twice Canada's... No wonder why it's really bad in France right now. I have family and friends who live there and I have been told some unbelievable "don't care" stories.

In the end, we're probably middle of the pack in performance vs the virus. The biggest territory with a very low population, some other countries/areas were helped by other factors, like Africa having a very young population and living outside. I find that countries that "already" experienced or knew about the danger of diseases reacted better in general

 

[Beech]

What do you mean "in some circles it is seen as a good thing"?

And basically every country has poverty issues but at varying degrees. Brazil and Mexico still have huge parts of their population that are poor, uneducated and live in minimal hygiene. I have seen it first hand. It's literally a SHAME that countries like USA and UK have such poor results in the battle vs the virus. There's so many videos of people gathering and just acting like everything was totally normal. The thing is there's a part of your population that needs to be explained everything and what to do, so when your leader is Donald Trump, you're in big trouble.

Believe it or not, in march I was called SELFISH on this board because I said I was preparing my family to live in a bubble and that we were going to use masks in public (that was before any lockdown and/or mandatory masking). I was ready March 8th. Then there was this guy from my past harassing me and telling me I was in denial, brainwashed, lazy, etc because I thought the virus was real (which I verified with some personnal contacts of course) and social distancing was the best way to slow the spread (and help out public health including the health system). There's some people that simply leaves you scratching your head.

When I see how covidiots like Trump acted with this virus, I always think of PHD Greg Graffin's song "We're Only Gonna Die For Our Own Arrogance". The problem is that it's more innocents dying in general. Like it has been for wars, etc

Of course it is not humanity's worst nightmare, wars, genocides, terrorism and the holocaust are pretty hard to beat. Just the "Three Kingdoms War" killed close to 40 millions people.

That being said, I'm not sure what you were trying to tell me there?

You think that all people of this plant are these wonderful, caring, loving creatures. That large parts of society are not, Xenophobes, Racists, selfish, uncaring? Do you not think there are large sections of our society that looks at other large sections with disdain, and would love to get rid of them? One nut 75 -80 years ago was putting people in ovens...Another, was sending people to die in Gulags.

Do you not think that there are people who are okay with this virus attacking the impoverished, specific ethnic groups, etc.? Your Brazilian friend has millions of people in ghettos (favela). DO you think he gives damn? do you think other Brazilians give a damn if those favelas get ripped to shreds? If they did, would they not have spent the last 100 years trying to fix the problem.

The tragedy of times of crises is: it unmasks us and shows our true character. We discover that we are, far less than noble to outright evil.

My companion needed emergency dental work. Her dentist would only see her if she paid a flat fee up front....In the early days of the pandemic, with humanity being concerned. People like that dentist was only looking to profit. Do you think that that dentist gives a rat's ass who lives and who dies?

Dictators are perfectly willing to use savage force to suppress revolt. Syria used chemical weapons on its own people. Do you think that large sectors of that nation's ruling class give a rats ass if the bulk of the citizenry, specifically the improvised and downtrodden die??? Heck, I am guessing, they are welcoming it.

What I am telling you is: we human beings can be bad creatures and can induce and/or idly sit by and watch suffering on our fellow man and not flinch. And worse, we can sometimes welcome it as a good thing..Tragic, but real.

 

[Sens]

Even after you get the vaccine you need to mask up
This is why you will still need to wear a mask after being vaccinated

Vaccines are pointless lol

 

[Micklebot]

Even after you get the vaccine you need to mask up
This is why you will still need to wear a mask after being vaccinated

Vaccines are pointless lol

You have an interesting concept of pointless...

 

[Sens]

You have an interesting concept of pointless...

Why would I get a vaccine if I need to continue to wear a mask

 

[Micklebot]

Why would I get a vaccine if I need to continue to wear a mask

Because it protects you from the virus, and the potential long term side effects of contracting it. Also, the reason we still need to wear a mask is not because it doesn't prevent you from infecting others, but because we don't yet know if it prevents you from being able to infect others.

If you're sole reason for getting vaccinated is not to wear a mask, you have seriously messed up priorities.

 

[Sens]

Then I’ll pass on the vaccine until I don’t need to wear a mask.

 

[DrEasy]

Then I’ll pass on the vaccine until I don’t need to wear a mask.

OK, just promise that when you get sick you stay home and don't use up hospital beds that others need.

 

[Sens]

OK, just promise that when you get sick you stay home and don't use up hospital beds that others need.

I’m not 80+
I’ll be fine

 

[DrEasy]

please delete.

 

[Sens]

Yeah, you're invincible, but stay home so you don't infect an 80+, or someone who might infect an 80+, etc.

i see so many elderly when I went Xmas shopping today.., the mall was loaded with them

Or the 80 year old cash register lady who gets my coffee at McDonald’s

what I see with my eyes does not equate to the fear I read on line or the media portrays

 

[DrEasy]

i see so many elderly when I went Xmas shopping today.., the mall was loaded with them

Or the 80 year old cash register lady who gets my coffee at McDonald’s

what I see with my eyes does not equate to the fear I read on line or the media portrays

It's your anecdotal evidence vs worldwide statistics, I'm not sure which to believe!

Also, the point isn't so much what percentage of the people get very sick. The point is that when enough people get sick it interferes with the ability of hospitals to deal with not only those who get sick of COVID but also everybody else who needs access to hospitals.

 

[Sens]

Nearly one-third of Canadians plan holiday gatherings despite pandemic restrictions: poll

1/3 are being honest
You know it’s closer to 70-80%

people here are not living in reality

 

[Sens]

It's your anecdotal evidence vs worldwide statistics, I'm not sure which to believe!

Nearly one-third of Canadians plan holiday gatherings despite pandemic restrictions: poll

oh snap