Evaluate Chevy

[Jet]

Monty had his chance at the starter role I believe in the Islander's organisation. With the increased responsibility, his numbers diminished significantly. I am thankful that we have an organisation that doesn't want to solve one goalie error by making the next one with another goalie. Monty served us well in the back-up role, but he is no starting goaltender. How many starts do you think he will get in Florida? . . . the perfect number. Luongo will handle the lion's share and he will cover the overflow. It will be great for the team.

I think it's pretty unfair to say to a player they have one chance and they are done. Monty did nothing but put up great numbers as a Jet. His numbers, actually are artificially lowered from the times he came in midway through a game where he struggled in that first year.

I wasn't suggesting sign Montoya to a 5 year 3.9MM per contract. I would have been really happy with giving him a 2 year deal at 2.5 per, and letting him and Hutch split the starts. I doubt they could perform worse than Pavelec.

 

[CanWin]

Even if the Jets had competent goaltending, is the core good enough to make the playoffs in this division? I suppose we can only speculate...

They did as much as they could to indicate that they are, after the coaching change. My vote is with the coach and the GM and the players who believe in themselves at this point. Kane wants an expanded role. I get that. Who wouldn't? If he only plays third line, even though he is getting a 2nd line salary, he is not happy. But if Maurice roles three lines more or less evenly, he will get plenty of chances to show what he can do.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I'm sorry but it's assertions like this from people in hockey that allow Pavelec to remain our starter.

It's especially frustrating when a goalie plays behind the exact same team, posts a much better save percentage, we win more and our GM STILL doesn't get it.

Instead of cutting the crappy goalie loose he lets the good one walk. It's stunningly terrible management.

Thats not what is keeping him here. Its the contract. That happens when you give a guy a bad contract. They have to keep him.

We all know he has to be better. They know it too. They are stuck with him because of that contract.

In the end it might end up being the thing that gets Chevy fired. I am going to guarantee you that if don't make the playoffs this year. You are going to hear a lot about that very thing next summer.

I really think its going to be a moot point because Hutchinson is going to push Pavelec this year. Yes hes going to be an expensive backup after next year but if we are winning so what.

 

[ps241]

Monty had his chance at the starter role I believe in the Islander's organisation. With the increased responsibility, his numbers diminished significantly. I am thankful that we have an organisation that doesn't want to solve one goalie error by making the next one with another goalie. Monty served us well in the back-up role, but he is no starting goaltender. How many starts do you think he will get in Florida? . . . the perfect number. Luongo will handle the lion's share and he will cover the overflow. It will be great for the team.

Yea but Pavs isn't a starting goalie though? Just because we pay him and play him like one doesn't mean he is qualified for the job. He has been a "backup level" goalie for 3 seasons now and playing him allot (perhaps that is the excuse) has caused him to fall flat! We all hope Hutch does well but that does not explain away the past 3 seasons.

 

[Jet]

Thats not what is keeping him here. Its the contract. That happens when you give a guy a bad contract. They have to keep him.

We all know he has to be better. They know it too. They are stuck with him because of that contract.

In the end it might end up being the thing that gets Chevy fired. I am going to guarantee you that if don't make the playoffs this year. You are going to hear a lot about that very thing next summer.

I really think its going to be a moot point because Hutchinson is going to push Pavelec this year. Yes hes going to be an expensive backup after next year but if we are winning so what.

I hope you are right. I can't bear another season with Pav losing us very winnable games.

 

[CanWin]

I think it's pretty unfair to say to a player they have one chance and they are done. Monty did nothing but put up great numbers as a Jet. His numbers, actually are artificially lowered from the times he came in midway through a game where he struggled in that first year.

I wasn't suggesting sign Montoya to a 5 year 3.9MM per contract. I would have been really happy with giving him a 2 year deal at 2.5 per, and letting him and Hutch split the starts. I doubt they could perform worse than Pavelec.

Rightly or wrongly, Monty has been slotted. If Pavelec leaves the Jets with last years numbers, someone may give him another chance at a backup role similar to what the Jets did for Monty, but starter? Not for a long time. Once your reputation is built, and you put up your numbers, it is hard to argue that those numbers will magically change. The one thing that might change numbers are extenuating circumstances. Did Pavs have some of them last year? Who knows but at this point, that is the only thing that makes sense to me in terms of the reason why the Jets would keep Pavs on as starter and announce it the way they did. Think about it. If you were ging through a rough personal time, what would be greater than your boss saying, "This is my guy. I trust his work." Depending on the personality type, if there is a chance to snap out of rough times, this would be it. This is all pure speculation, but I am trying to understand.

 

[ps241]

Thats not what is keeping him here. Its the contract. That happens when you give a guy a bad contract. They have to keep him.

We all know he has to be better. They know it too. They are stuck with him because of that contract.

In the end it might end up being the thing that gets Chevy fired. I am going to guarantee you that if don't make the playoffs this year. You are going to hear a lot about that very thing next summer.

I really think its going to be a moot point because Hutchinson is going to push Pavelec this year. Yes hes going to be an expensive backup after next year but if we are winning so what.

Wow we are in trouble if this is what the Jets brass think Joe. Short of Hutch standing on his head we are not a playoff team in the West yet.

Its criminal Pavs was ever more than 1a 1b type even back to his Atlanta days. When he collapsed for the 2nd straight season late (2010-11 then 2011-12) most orgs would have hedged their bets with a bridge show me deal and brought in another 1a-1b type talent to compete for starts.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

In terms of evaluating Chevy, I'll just copy and paste my "end of season grades" from 2012-13 and 2013-14:

F-

 

[bigplay41*]

Wow we are in trouble if this is what the Jets brass think Joe. Short of Hutch standing on his head we are not a playoff team in the West yet.

Its criminal Pavs was ever more than 1a 1b type even back to his Atlanta days. When he collapsed for the 2nd straight season late (2010-11 then 2011-12) most orgs would have hedged their bets with a bridge show me deal and brought in another 1a-1b type talent to compete for starts.

First thing i thought of was him collapsing on the ice a few years ago.

 

[Board Bard]

So Chevy has decided to call him the #1, tell him he's the starter, tell him what's expected of him, pump up his tires, etc.

That sounds more like a practical joke than a hockey strategy.

 

[Guerzy]

I think people get caught up in Save percentage way too much on these boards. There is no miracle number that gets you into the playoffs. You still have to play the game

Is there a goaltender (or tandem) that posted a .901, .905 or .906SV% and the team made the playoffs in the last number of years?

I'm honestly interested in knowing the answer here. I should look it up.

 

[ps241]

First thing i thought of was him collapsing on the ice a few years ago.

Yikes I hope that isn't how it came across I was talking about how he faded both seasons........Collapse might not have been the best choice of words.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Wow we are in trouble if this is what the Jets brass think Joe. Short of Hutch standing on his head we are not a playoff team in the West yet.

Its criminal Pavs was ever more than 1a 1b type even back to his Atlanta days. When he collapsed for the 2nd straight season late (2010-11 then 2011-12) most orgs would have hedged their bets with a bridge show me deal and brought in another 1a-1b type talent to compete for starts.

I don't think so. Most things I have heard is that the players were not supportive of Noel as a coach. The reaction is Noel was fired PoMo brought in and now the players have to put up or shut up next year.

If things don't improve I expect big changes next summer and that includes the possibility of Chevy being gone(although I suspect that he will tear this team apart and then take the blame fully for a lame duck season).

If we are in the east we are probably not having this conversation. But were not, we are in the west at the height of its power.

 

[Gm0ney]

I think it's pretty unfair to say to a player they have one chance and they are done. Monty did nothing but put up great numbers as a Jet. His numbers, actually are artificially lowered from the times he came in midway through a game where he struggled in that first year.

I wasn't suggesting sign Montoya to a 5 year 3.9MM per contract. I would have been really happy with giving him a 2 year deal at 2.5 per, and letting him and Hutch split the starts. I doubt they could perform worse than Pavelec.

Montoya was thrown to the wolves too. Got 2 starts against Chicago, and relieved Pavelec in another game. 2 starts against St. Louis (one on the second night of a back-to-back where he played Dallas the night before). 4 starts against division rival Colorado. Started once against Pittsburgh once against San Jose...the guy was playing the cream of the league - not your usual backup fodder

In fact, Pavelec got 14 out of 19 starts against teams that finished below the Jets in the standings (BUF, FLA, EDM, CGY, NYI, VAN, CAR, TOR). Monty got 4/19 starts against those bottom feeders.

It's almost like they were trying to make Pavelec look better by giving him easier matchups and trying to set up Monty to fail...

 

[Aavco Cup]

Montoya was thrown to the wolves too. Got 2 starts against Chicago, and relieved Pavelec in another game. 2 starts against St. Louis (one on the second night of a back-to-back where he played Dallas the night before). 4 starts against division rival Colorado. Started once against Pittsburgh once against San Jose...the guy was playing the cream of the league - not your usual backup fodder

In fact, Pavelec got 14 out of 19 starts against teams that finished below the Jets in the standings (BUF, FLA, EDM, CGY, NYI, VAN, CAR, TOR). Monty got 4/19 starts against those bottom feeders.

It's almost like they were trying to make Pavelec look better by giving him easier matchups and trying to set up Monty to fail...

Those stats alone say a lot. The organization knows guys, no matter what they say publicly.

 

[Jet]

Montoya was thrown to the wolves too. Got 2 starts against Chicago, and relieved Pavelec in another game. 2 starts against St. Louis (one on the second night of a back-to-back where he played Dallas the night before). 4 starts against division rival Colorado. Started once against Pittsburgh once against San Jose...the guy was playing the cream of the league - not your usual backup fodder

In fact, Pavelec got 14 out of 19 starts against teams that finished below the Jets in the standings (BUF, FLA, EDM, CGY, NYI, VAN, CAR, TOR). Monty got 4/19 starts against those bottom feeders.

It's almost like they were trying to make Pavelec look better by giving him easier matchups and trying to set up Monty to fail...

It's a real shame and I wouldn't be surprised to see Montoya really shine again next year.

 

[StronGeer]

Well if they know he's bad then I don't see why he's getting 60 starts.

 

[ps241]

I don't think so. Most things I have heard is that the players were not supportive of Noel as a coach. The reaction is Noel was fired PoMo brought in and now the players have to put up or shut up next year.

If things don't improve I expect big changes next summer and that includes the possibility of Chevy being gone(although I suspect that he will tear this team apart and then take the blame fully for a lame duck season).

If we are in the east we are probably not having this conversation. But were not, we are in the west at the height of its power.

Good post Joe

First off although I understand the logic of the "show me season" for the players I disagree with it and think we need to treat each player as more of an individual. I think we need to have the courage to hug Mo while trading Buff now as one example. That being said if this is actually the show me year and they have the courage to take bigger steps next off season then I would be ok with that timing as long as Pavs is part of the purging. I honestly think if playoffs is their short term expectation and they didn't give Chevy the power to punt on Pavs then they weren't setting him up for success but I may be wrong.

Secondly, I agree if we were in the east this would all be masked over but I for one am glad we are exactly where we are because it is forcing us to confront reality head on. If it doesn't kill us it will force us to adapt and if and when we conquer the challenge we will be ready to compete for a cup. That may not have happened for a decade in the east. I would much rather be sinking or swimming with the sharks than getting false hope in the old south least.

 

[pucka lucka]

I think people get caught up in Save percentage way too much on these boards. There is no miracle number that gets you into the playoffs. You still have to play the game

What a bizarre thing to say. There are 2 ways to do this. A goalie with a better save percentage or we allow far fewer shots per game. We were right in the middle of the league in shots against. We had the goalie with the worst save percentage. It's elementary school math we are talking about here.

 

[jetswin]

Seems like every year is the proverbial show me year. Bold moves will need to be made to put this team in the play-offs any year. Pav's has to go and we need to improve scoring depth. Not a Kane fan, he needs to go. If the plan is to tank then people need to remember the top 5 spots in the draft are in the lottery next year (or so I thought I read that somewhere), which means you could be the worst team and still get pick 5 which is a long term project.

Good post Joe

First off although I understand the logic of the "show me season" for the players I disagree with it and think we need to treat each player as more of an individual. I think we need to have the courage to hug Mo while trading Buff now as one example. That being said if this is actually the show me year and they have the courage to take bigger steps next off season then I would be ok with that timing as long as Pavs is part of the purging. I honestly think if playoffs is their short term expectation and they didn't give Chevy the power to punt on Pavs then they weren't setting him up for success but I may be wrong.

Secondly, I agree if we were in the east this would all be masked over but I for one am glad we are exactly where we are because it is forcing us to confront reality head on. If it doesn't kill us it will force us to adapt and if and when we conquer the challenge we will be ready to compete for a cup. That may not have happened for a decade in the east. I would much rather be sinking or swimming with the sharks than getting false hope in the old south least.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Well if they know he's bad then I don't see why he's getting 60 starts.

How do you know he'll get 60 starts?

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

There is definitely a plan and direction. Everyone has been told that and what the plan is from day one , if anyone doesn't know it , it is because they chose to ignore it. That's not on the Jets. We all know it whether you agree with it or not.

Dumping vets .... yada yada yada , seriously? The magical 2015? No assurances we pick higher than 6 or so and you think that warrants that? I quite like our four number ones frankly. Next season in all likelyhood we have them all playing , and contributing . Varying degrees , but not in any fringe roles imo . We also will have the first wave of second tier ( also third tier ) prospects ready . Those are ADDED to Wheeler , Little ,Ladd , Kane , Enstrom ,Buff , Bogosion,Frolik none of which are too old to go forward with. Or too old to trade at a later date for good value.

If we have a good offer for a player like Kane or Buff , then by all means that becomes an option , but not until we get the offer we want. The Kane situation isn't optimal but it isn't nearly as bad as many make it to be. IF Kane doesn't play hard , produce and be fiercely competitive then let's make it an issue. If he truly wants out , he knows by having a monster year he gets more teams salivating and makes that more likely. No worries he won't be fit , prepared and produce for me. I'm not taking any discount. None.

So , goaltending . One legitimate issue. We have three very good young prospects , slightly staggered developmentally , we're in good shape and as we've all seen it doesn't cost a lot to get a goalie if we decide to do that. No reason to not see if Hutchinson can't be a 40 start goalie , let's go from there and adjust if Pavs continues to be inconsistent and below average .

Button isn't the only hockey person that really likes our drafting , far from being the only one. Nice to see him detail it for everyone though.

Just in regards to the 2015 draft, the projected 6th pick right now is Oliver Kylington, the 16 year old playing in the Swedish elite league. I believe no one has ever done that before.

So yeah, the 2015 draft is looking pretty special. Would you pass up a pick to get a d-man better than Trouba? Beause Trouba never did the things Kylinton or Hanifan has done thus far. These are franchise players and some.

One of these guys are much more likely to get us the Stanley Cup than Ladd, Byfuglien or Wheeler....I would happily trade Buff or even Wheeler for an extra 2015 first. It would be wise going forward.

I don't think a draft like this one is coming again anytime soon.

 

[StronGeer]

Seems like every year is the proverbial show me year. Bold moves will need to be made to put this team in the play-offs any year. Pav's has to go and we need to improve scoring depth. Not a Kane fan, he needs to go. If the plan is to tank then people need to remember the top 5 spots in the draft are in the lottery next year (or so I thought I read that somewhere), which means you could be the worst team and still get pick 5 which is a long term project.

There is one sentence in that paragraph I agree with.

If you make bold moves every year, you're eventually going to get burned. Kane is not among the main problems with this team's performance on the ice.

Incorrect. All non-playoff teams are in the mix for 1st overall. There is only one draw. Last place team picks at worst 2nd overall. And I'd hardly call a 5th overall pick in next year's draft a "long term project".

How do you know he'll get 60 starts?

I was referring to last year.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Honestly, ps241, that's what I want too.

I'd rather have a team that always makes the playoffs, season after season, than a team that is awful for many years then great for a few. Sure, you might have a better chance at a cup the second way, but the enjoyment of following the team is less, afaic. Also, any team that makes the playoffs can win the cup nowadays, especially if you have a great goalie.

Problem is, if this is what TNSE wants, they'd better hire a GM who can actually recognize weakness and do the things they need to do to fix them. If they don't they won't be the Flyers, they will be the Flames, and no one wants that.

If the Jets aren't in it to win the Cup, Chevy should be fired and Chipman should be forced to sell the team.....just gunning for playoff spots is the biggest loser attitude one could ever have. I bet the vast majority of fans in Vancouver would trade multiple playoff appearances for a Cup in four seconds. Bet they would do the same in Toronto as well....

I think the Flyers have lost in the finals 5 times since the won their two cup sin the 70's....what is the point of that..

Making it to the finals and losing is worse than anything....

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

There is one sentence in that paragraph I agree with.

If you make bold moves every year, you're eventually going to get burned. Kane is not among the main problems with this team's performance on the ice.

Incorrect. All non-playoff teams are in the mix for 1st overall. There is only one draw. Last place team picks at worst 2nd overall. And I'd hardly call a 5th overall pick in next year's draft a "long term project".


I was referring to last year.

Eichel or McDavid....your draft either way is a smash hit..