European Billionaires awaiting season cancellation

[Sanderson]

I can think of 4 without even looking it up. The new arenas in Berlin and Cologne Germany both have Capacities over 18,500, the Manchester Arena is over 17,000 and the home of SC Bern which is close to 17,000. That wasn't tough.

They haven't even started to build an arena in Berlin, it will take at least 1 1/2 years before it is ready. Not to forget, the new arena will be build by Anschutz, who is an NHL-owner and already has a hometeam in Berlin.

The same is true for Hamburg and some other arenas as well.

You will have a hard time to find an arena without an established hometeam and even if you find enough of them, you still have very low tv-contracts and not enough corporate support.

There might be some European billionaires, but most of them are like the current NHL-owners, they have no interest in losing large amounts of money.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

Milano, Forum - capacity 11,000
Rome - capacity 13,000

Thanks for the update. Everyone else please update as well. It would be nice to have a complete list to dispell some of these myths. As well, if you know top and bottom ticket prices that would be appreciated as well.

 

[Riddarn]

and the home of SC Bern which is close to 17,000. That wasn't tough.

You do know of course, that only just over 5000 of those alleged 17000 at Allmendstadion are seats. The other 11.000+ are standing space..

 

[SENSible1*]

I can think of 4 without even looking it up. The new arenas in Berlin and Cologne Germany both have Capacities over 18,500, the Manchester Arena is over 17,000 and the home of SC Bern which is close to 17,000. That wasn't tough.

I asked you to provide a full list.

Unless the league you are fantasizing about has only 4 franchises, then this post was as valuable as the rest of your tripe.

 

[The Maltais Falcon]

Goodbye, Atlanta Thrashers, hellllooooooooo, Zurich Gnomes!

P.S.: Thanks for the laughs as usual, vanlady. I know I can always count on you for some anti-owner/pro-player chuckles.

 

[Mighty Duck]

I agree, if the game isn't played on North American soil, it wouldn't never live up to the NHL. Those euro's are the ones who have spoil the game here anyway. Let those euro's stay in Europe, and we can have our watered down NHL. Most Americans don't know the difference anywaty

 

[Dave in LA]

Isn't European Billionaires an oxymoron since 60-70% of their income is taxed? I guess they have to work really hard.

D

 

[CarlRacki]

Let's also remember that all the 17,000-seat arenas in the world do no good without the fan base to fill them up. And, judging by the numbers, the European fan base just isn't there.

Best attendance figures in European hockey leagues 2003-2004
1. (1) SC Bern (SUI) -- 13.034 -- 79,8%
2. (2) Kölner Haie (GER) -- 12.887 -- 69,6%
3. (3) Hamburg Freezers (GER) -- 11.351 -- 88,9%
4. (4) Frölunda, Göteborg (SWE) -- 10.942 -- 90,8%
5. (5) Jokerit, Helsinki -- (FIN) -- 9.093 -- 66,5%
6. (6) Lokomotiv Yaroslavl (RUS) -- 8.824 -- 97,5%
7. (10) HC Pardubice (CZE) -- 8.200 -- 88,2%
8. (8) Färjestad, Karlstad (SWE) -- 7.839 -- 96,1%
9. (9) TPS Turku (FIN) -- 7.705 -- 65,2%
10. (7) ZSC Lions, Zurich (SUI) -- 7.615 -- 66,2%
11. (11) Djurgarden, Stockholm (SWE) -- 7.404
12. (X) Amur Khabarovsk (RUS) -- 7.100
13. (12) HIFK Helsinki (FIN) -- 6.624
14. (14) Düsseldorf Metro Stars (GER) -- 6.512
15. (19) Frankfurt Lions (GER) -- 6'156
16. (15) HV 71, Jönköping (SWE) -- 6'117
17. (16) Karpat, Oulu (FIN) -- 6'081
18. (13) HC Plzen (CZE) -- 5'881
19. (X) Nürnberg Ice Tigers (GER) -- 5'591
20. (18) HC Lausanne (SUI) -- 5'518

http://www.iihf.com/news/iihfpr3504.htm

Even if you add the so-called 10 percent increase in attendance because of the lockout, you still have only four teams in all of Europe averaging better than 10,000 fans a game. These numbers obviously are woefully short of what would be needed to support a "Super league" and NHL-style salaries.

 

[MLH]

Ambramovich is worth $10.6 billion. Here are the NHL individual billionaires:

LAK- Anschutz: $5.2 billion
STL- Laurie $2.8 billion
BUF- Golisano: $1.6 billion
COL- Kroenke: $1.4 billion
VAN- McCaw: $1.2 billion

 

[Greschner4]

I agree, if the game isn't played on North American soil, it wouldn't never live up to the NHL. Those euro's are the ones who have spoil the game here anyway. Let those euro's stay in Europe, and we can have our watered down NHL. Most Americans don't know the difference anywaty

Much as they didn't before the fall of the Iron Curtain in 1989.

This American sure sees the difference and the difference is that today's game is shyte compared to the pre-'89 version.

 

[Greschner4]

Let's also remember that all the 17,000-seat arenas in the world do no good without the fan base to fill them up. And, judging by the numbers, the European fan base just isn't there.

Best attendance figures in European hockey leagues 2003-2004
1. (1) SC Bern (SUI) -- 13.034 -- 79,8%
2. (2) Kölner Haie (GER) -- 12.887 -- 69,6%
3. (3) Hamburg Freezers (GER) -- 11.351 -- 88,9%
4. (4) Frölunda, Göteborg (SWE) -- 10.942 -- 90,8%
5. (5) Jokerit, Helsinki -- (FIN) -- 9.093 -- 66,5%
6. (6) Lokomotiv Yaroslavl (RUS) -- 8.824 -- 97,5%
7. (10) HC Pardubice (CZE) -- 8.200 -- 88,2%
8. (8) Färjestad, Karlstad (SWE) -- 7.839 -- 96,1%
9. (9) TPS Turku (FIN) -- 7.705 -- 65,2%
10. (7) ZSC Lions, Zurich (SUI) -- 7.615 -- 66,2%
11. (11) Djurgarden, Stockholm (SWE) -- 7.404
12. (X) Amur Khabarovsk (RUS) -- 7.100
13. (12) HIFK Helsinki (FIN) -- 6.624
14. (14) Düsseldorf Metro Stars (GER) -- 6.512
15. (19) Frankfurt Lions (GER) -- 6'156
16. (15) HV 71, Jönköping (SWE) -- 6'117
17. (16) Karpat, Oulu (FIN) -- 6'081
18. (13) HC Plzen (CZE) -- 5'881
19. (X) Nürnberg Ice Tigers (GER) -- 5'591
20. (18) HC Lausanne (SUI) -- 5'518

http://www.iihf.com/news/iihfpr3504.htm

Even if you add the so-called 10 percent increase in attendance because of the lockout, you still have only four teams in all of Europe averaging better than 10,000 fans a game. These numbers obviously are woefully short of what would be needed to support a "Super league" and NHL-style salaries.

Thanks for rustling the info up.

The idea was just a Strachan brain fart. He must have been out of other nonsensical propaganda that day.

The WHA or a reconstituted NHL are much better business propositions than this drivel.

 

[Luc Labelle]

One also has to look at the support of the World Junior Hockey Tournaments as a bit of a guage of how limited the appeal of hockey is in Europe. Here is an article on the 2000 championship which was the followup to the then record breaking tournament held in Winnipeg.

There were only 457 people on hand to watch Canada beat Finland 3-2 on Christmas Day in Skelleftea and only 374 watched the Czech Republic tie the U.S. 2-2 on Sunday.

Sweden's 7-1 win over Switzerland in Umea attracted the biggest crowd so far at 2,838.

This year both exhibition games drew over 15,000 in Winnipeg.

 

[looooob]

Ambramovich is worth $10.6 billion. Here are the NHL individual billionaires:

LAK- Anschutz: $5.2 billion
STL- Laurie $2.8 billion
BUF- Golisano: $1.6 billion
COL- Kroenke: $1.4 billion
VAN- McCaw: $1.2 billion

I believe Flames co-owner Murray Edwards recently scraped into the billionaires club...although I suppose that would be in CAN dollars, whereas I assume you are quoting US figures?

 

[Greschner4]

I believe Flames co-owner Murray Edwards recently scraped into the billionaires club...although I suppose that would be in CAN dollars, whereas I assume you are quoting US figures?

Abramovich's money is filthy. He's a Putin mood change from being thrown in jail.

 

[Pepper]

Isn't European Billionaires an oxymoron since 60-70% of their income is taxed? I guess they have to work really hard.

D

Dont believe everything you read. Only labor force is highly taxed, capital taxation is not that high.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

I am also a billionaire, and plan to start my own league here in Nova scotia, with all games played in my backyard. Anyone want a piece of the action?? If so, please send cash.

 

[MLH]

I believe Flames co-owner Murray Edwards recently scraped into the billionaires club...although I suppose that would be in CAN dollars, whereas I assume you are quoting US figures?

Yeah that's American dollar billionaires.

Anyone know why Melnyk went from $1.4 billion in 2003 to off the list in 2004?

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Well after three years of no hockey in america, which is going to happen, europe will be the place for professional hockey and here in the US and Canada will be one of there feeder systems. How ironic that will be and you folks asked no demanded it . How will you canadians no fel to be their fluff players . Love it !!!!!! You all got what you deserve and I hope crow pie taste good. And who said the players had no option and could not win this thing. Good luck owners of the NHL franchises that are to become worthless hope you feel the pain.

 

[CarlRacki]

Yeah that's American dollar billionaires.

Anyone know why Melnyk went from $1.4 billion in 2003 to off the list in 2004?

Because he invested in the NHL.

Actually, it was because his company's stock took a dive when financial reporting irregularities were revealed.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/forbes/P76035.asp

 

[kerrly]

Yeah that's American dollar billionaires.

Anyone know why Melnyk went from $1.4 billion in 2003 to off the list in 2004?

Because he owns an NHL franchise.

 

[Mess]

Pipe Dream. Maybe there could be something done in the area of Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Slovakia and the Czech Republic. Maybe. But the scandinavians would never be in on it and not the russians either.

Why So ??

I would have thought that the SEL having all its own stars back home to see them game in and game out would be very interesting to Euro's

The Russian teams are already stacked with NHLers and so next season who is to say other RSL teams would not follow ??

 

[vanlady]

Really? Back up that ridiculous statement with some facts, please.

Comcast is worth $109 billion. There's some guy in Russia worth more than that? Not according to Forbes.

According to Forbes the NHL owner with the highest personal fortune is Anschutz (LA) at 5.2 billion, Roman Abramovich personal wealth is listed at 11.6 billion. If you want to get into corporate ownership, well there is fun, I can think of at least 3 of the top 20 oil companies in the world that own hockey teams in Russia. And you wonder why AK Bars Kazan has a budget of 60 million a year.

 

[Whakahere]

Mannheim is just about finished building a 13,800 size area.
take a look at the pretty picture (or if you can read German there is more information).
http://www.architekten24.de/projekt/saparena-mannheim/uebersicht/

I laugh out loud when I hear North Americans think that Hockey will be OKay in America after the lockout. I personaly think the way the NHL and NHLPA have gone aboput this latest CBA they are going to LOSE income and in the end not have the best league in the game anymore. Mainly because they won't be able to afford some players at the they are getting paid in Europe.

Another thing that is getting at me. Teams in America say the way to increase their fan base it to build bigger and better areas. Because we all know that improves the amount of butts in seats. But when Europe does this, they don't have the fan base to support larger arenas? Confused, hell I am.

Sorry to everyone, I'm just feeling down about the stupidity of the owners and players.

GREED is what is killing hockey. Neither of these groups could give a flying **** about how strong the sport will become.

People who work in the game not as players are taking pay cuts and working 4 day weeks. Go to TSN and they say it there. I have had it with the greed as it is making me completely grumpy.

 

[SENSible1*]

According to Forbes the NHL owner with the highest personal fortune is Anschutz (LA) at 5.2 billion, Roman Abramovich personal wealth is listed at 11.6 billion. If you want to get into corporate ownership, well there is fun, I can think of at least 3 of the top 20 oil companies in the world that own hockey teams in Russia. And you wonder why AK Bars Kazan has a budget of 60 million a year.

You haven't embarrassed yourself enough in this thread that you had to come back and keep it alive?

You wouldn't happen to be a card carrying member of Masochists Anonymous, would you?

 

[The Maltais Falcon]

How long is AK Bars going to keep pissing away money? They'll get sick and tired of underwriting a hockey club sooner or later, just like NHL owners have.