jekoh said:
The lack of interested for junior sports might have something to do with the fact that many European countries don't have college or university sports leagues the way Canada and the US have.
European Billionaires awaiting season cancellation
- Thread starter vanlady
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The lack of interested for junior sports might have something to do with the fact that many European countries don't have college or university sports leagues the way Canada and the US have.
CarlRacki
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FrozenPond said:
You're right that the best players will always have a place to play and be well compensated for it. But where you miss the mark, IMO, is by thinking that a super Euro league would or could rise from the ashes of the NHL and supplant it as the best-paying league in the world.
I just don't believe the economic infrastructure for such a league exists over there. First, the European fan base for hockey is tiny compared to those in the U.S. and Canada. This is reflected in the relatively small attendance at European league games and the small amount of television revenue (see post above about Swedish league) collected by those leagues. Public support for the game isn't going to grow tenfolds overnight because some rich guys invent a super league.
Im getting really sick and tired at the way things are shaping up.......bla bla bla..........yada yada yada.........all talk and no action by the NHL!.......
I also heard on the radio the other day that Chris Pronger wouldnt settle playing for a maximum of $5-million a season....meanwhile when he was out with his injury he was being payed $10-million and he wasnt even playing at all.............you go figure.............these snot-nosed NHLers who have never worked a second in their lives and $5-million a year isnèt enough?.........good grief!.........
I hope they do go ahead with this idea of the new Super League over in Europe..........might just be the Kick-in-the-Ass the NHL needs to get their house in order.
Cheers!
monkey_00
I also heard on the radio the other day that Chris Pronger wouldnt settle playing for a maximum of $5-million a season....meanwhile when he was out with his injury he was being payed $10-million and he wasnt even playing at all.............you go figure.............these snot-nosed NHLers who have never worked a second in their lives and $5-million a year isnèt enough?.........good grief!.........
I hope they do go ahead with this idea of the new Super League over in Europe..........might just be the Kick-in-the-Ass the NHL needs to get their house in order.
Cheers!
monkey_00
CarlRacki said:
The European fan base is not tiny, but rather the contrary, just think about it: Russia, Sweden, Czech, Slovakia, Finland, Germany...
The problem is that the fan base is fragmented, with each country's fans only being interested in their respective domestic leagues and in international hockey (men's, not junior's). They wouldn't care about an international league.
Edit: nowadays lots of people also prefer to watch games on tv, instead of the stadiums. We can thank high ticket prices for that...and the companies who buy bundles of tickets and thus make the prices go up. They are also responsible for some of the empty seats, cause often the invited business people just don't show up.
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I know the poster is right about that Russian Dude. The guy owns a huge steel company and is worth more than all the NHL owners combined!!! He is only 38 years old or something. I think he owns a Russian Super League team or something. His partner is a billionaire too.
Mess
Global Moderator
Okay fair enough ..Riddarn said:
but do you support the NHL now ?? Are you able to buy a National TV package to see the NHL broadcast ??
You local country team support would be similar to the OHL, WHL , QMJHL , AHL in North America that still contiues even with the NHL in North America ..
Why could the development that existed to bring the NHL Forsberg and Lidstrom to the NHL .. Now bring the future Stars to the World league .. If you local team produced a great player .. Now you lose them to the NHL then you would to the World League ..
What if this is the end to the NHL as we know it and the big market North America teams join this in a Hybrid NEW WORLD LEAGUE ..
For Example ..
North America Div
Detroit
Toronto
Philly
New York
Colorado
Dallas
St. Louis
LA
etc ..
Euro Division
Russia
Sweden
Finland
Czech
Swiss
Germany
Slovakia
England
etc
and the NHLers divided up .. Do you believe people in Europe would not pay to see that product .. ??
The League wouldnt catch up here. The biggest stadium here is around 7000. The TV doesnt even show international games except the WC's and dont expect to start showing an international League. I dont see this a realistic posibility in teh next 10 years.
The Messenger said:
The Messenger..........
I would pay big bucks to see that hockey for 2-reasons.........
(1) Generally speaking, The Europeans care more for hockey than the Americans do so we would see a better product on the ice...........maybe might even see the League use Olympic-sized ice rinks instead of the NHL standard of 200-by-85..........
(2) By having only the Big market teams like Toronto, Philly and Detroit join up with the European-based clubs we would finally get rid of teams in NHL markets that shouldnt have recieved a franchise in the first place like Phoenix, Tampa Bay, Columbus and the Buffalo Sabres.............Gretzky lost alot of money when he was part owner of the CFL Toronto Argos.......same thing is gonna happen to him with the Coyotes in Phoenix............
Cheers!
monkey_00
Riddarn
1980-2011
- Aug 2, 2003
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The Messenger said:
No. But my cable that brings me SEL hockey also offers some NHL hockey. As a fan of the sport I of course watch it too when I can.
The Messenger said:
I wouldn't compare them. It's very different.
The Messenger said:
A league like that, if successful would take hockey away from small/medium size towns and families that have kids that actually play hockey in favour of a few rich people in a few big cities. Just to pay the salaries of a handful of athletes that are nowhere near worth that kind of money. In fact the very idea of a league like that disgusts me. We don't need more corporate power in sports. We need less.
I don't think europeans would pay for a league like that, no. Maybe there are some people that would pay for the first few games just because it's a novelty, but when they realize that the hockey is just barely better than the old Elite Leagues they will save their money for something else.
CarlRacki said:
CarlRacki..........
They do have some wealty people over there in Russia........NHLers like LeCavalier, Richards, Kovalchuk were recently signed to multi-million deals over there.
Cheers!
monkey_00
Jussi
Registered User
riz said:
You sure that was last year spring? Becasue Jokerit and Hifk idn't meet in the playoffs last season.They did in 2003 when Jokerit swept them 4-0. If you saw them in a regular season match, then it may have been a televised match which are nevr sell outs during regular season. Hartwall Areena doesn't fill until the semis or finals.
CarlRacki said:
CarlRacki.............
Those were last seasons figures right?.........How much better will those numbers be when they have NHL superstars playing over there on a fulltime basis?
Cheers!
monkey_00
CarlRacki
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- Feb 9, 2004
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monkey_00 said:
That's utter hogwash. Of the 10 most popular European teams, only three filled their buildings past 90 percent capacity last year. Only four European teams averaged better than 10,000 fans per game.
In comparison, 11 of 24 U.S.-based NHL teams had better than 90 percent capacity and every single NHL teams had better attendance than any European club. And, keep in mind, this is happening despite the fact that the average ticket price in the U.S. is significantly greater than in Europe.
If the Europeans care so much for hockey and the Americans care so little, why do attendance numbers show just the opposite?
CarlRacki
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monkey_00 said:
Yep, and those guys are very much the exception to the rule. Most NHLers over in Europe are earning the equivalent of about $150,000 a year.
From story linked:
"Nash ($1.185 million, plus bonuses) and Thornton ($6.75 million) are making a fraction of their usual NHL pay -- about $200,000 a season. The vast majority of players are earning less than $150,000 in Europe -- well off the NHL average salary of $1.8 million. "
http://www.detnews.com/2004/wings/0412/17/e10-35814.htm
CarlRacki said:
CarlRacki..........
Hogwash my foot..........those are last years numbers that you are using.........How much better will their attendance figures be if they had the best players in the world playing over there on a fulltime basis like we do over here with the NHL?........................thats something to think about.
Cheers!
monkey_00
Mess
Global Moderator
I respect your opinion ..Riddarn said:
but do you honestly believe the last line .. any NEW WORLD team that features Forsberg, Lidstrom, Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Hossa, Kariya, Koivu etc .. is just barely better then going to see a SEL game before the lockout happened .. ??
That is hard to believe .. While the lockout is on they are showing us the SEL ..a game a week here . .and not to offend you ..but even with the lockout players I didn't see the level of play equal to the NHL of old, well at least as far as seeing the Big Market teams anyways ..
If you take a team like Linkopings HC that they are showing here .. If you know take Brendan Morrison, Mike Knuble, and Kristian Huselius and drop them back into the NEW World league .. You belive what is left in linkopings and the quality of Hockey would be equal to an NHL team ..
I would have to disagree there with you .. That is nothing against the Sel and supporting the local market and community at all ..
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One thing I forgot, in European sports, we are used to the divisions systems where clubs go up and down based on their success on the field. It is not a system based on money and where the teams need to be in the large cities to make money. That;s why the European leagues (soccer, basketball,...) work only because they are on top of the national schedules. I don't think you could easily break or go around this pattern... And hockey might be too much of a demanding sports to allow teams to play in 2 different competitions at the same time...
Riddarn
1980-2011
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The Messenger said:
The way I see it, regular season NHL hockey is barely better than the SEL, lockout or not. The playoffs is another matter, but for that we have international play like the World Championships which is traditionally very strong over here. The point is, the hockey in the NHL might be better but not good enough to motivate me to pay three of four times as much per game. Thats just silly.
You must understand that even though most of you North Americans probably regard the European clubs as crappy minor league clubs, this is not how they view themselves. And the fans don't view them as that either. Sure they have less economic power, but economics isn't everything. My club was formed 1891. They have played organized hockey since 1922. Many of the more known teams around europe have a long history spanning several decades and this is not something you can just flush down the toilette just because the big primadonnas of the NHL wants their oversized paychecks.
I'd like to see them try to start this league. Because when they fail, and fail they will, it will set a warning example for anyone else who tries to do something like it in the future.
It might work; it might not work. The longer this lockout goes on, the greater the chance that someone will make the attempt. If it does work, the NHL could be in deep trouble. An NHL without the best players ain’t much of a league. If a Super League does work, I don’t believe it will be strictly a Euro league. Cities like Toronto and Montreal will want a part of it (I don’t mean this year or next year, I’m talking longer term).CarlRacki said:
Sports isn’t all about economics, there is more to it than that. Tom Hicks gave A-Rod a $250 million dollar contract. Bill Laurie has sunk a ton of money into his Blues. My guess is that had a lot more to do with trying to win than it had to do with return on investment.
I spend money every year to sit in the cheap seats. I do it because I’m a hockey fan, I don’t expect a return on my ticket “investmentâ€. If I had a billion dollars, I’d be more than willing to spend a whole lot more to sit in the owners box.
Oh. how I love to travel in Europe and attend all the hockey places.
Of course I watch NHL Hockey on Pay TV over here, and I like it for its sport, no doubt. But northern american hockey-business is a totally different stuff.
I guess many Europan Users here have pointed out the differences. We are still looking for an adequate hockey tounament in Europe that might attract the ig crowd. It surely won't be a weekly playing league.
Of course I watch NHL Hockey on Pay TV over here, and I like it for its sport, no doubt. But northern american hockey-business is a totally different stuff.
I guess many Europan Users here have pointed out the differences. We are still looking for an adequate hockey tounament in Europe that might attract the ig crowd. It surely won't be a weekly playing league.
riz
Registered User
I forgot we're in 2005 already....sorry about thatNo, I don't think theres a chance for this league. Talking about a world league: Would be the first world pro league, never! Travel distances, costs, lack of emotional matches and so on.
Look at whats going on right now...there's one league trying to get all those players by guaranteeing the wages, it's the Russian League. Just imagined the Lock Out will last another season, I assume, that wouldn't change the scene.
Look at whats going on right now...there's one league trying to get all those players by guaranteeing the wages, it's the Russian League. Just imagined the Lock Out will last another season, I assume, that wouldn't change the scene.
me2
Go ahead foot
vanlady said:
Shame they aren't remotely in a hockey country. Lets get realistic, how many Manchester trained players are in the NHL?. Manchester is just not hockey country, its soccer country. Besides soccer there is also rugby league, rugby union and cricket. Hockey is less than a blip on Manchesters radar. There just won't be support to come close to getting 90% capacity at $40 a ticket. What good is a 15000+ seat arena that attracts 1000 fans at US$45 a ticket? If they got 5000 fans at that price it would be a massive success, that's why it won't work.
Suggesting Manchester as a hockey SL site makes as much sense as suggesting Vancouver could support a soccer team with an English Premier League payroll of around $50m. Just won't happen whether or not the arena is big enough to hold 30000 fans, because they just won't get them at the prices they need to charge.
What is also not mentioned is earning capacity. You need a certain number of fans per game AND those fans must have an ability to pay.
After taxes incomes compared to Zurich
Swiss cities vary around the 80-100 range
NYR, LA, Chicago around 80
Swedes, Finns & Germans in 50-60 range
TO, Montreal in the 50
Moscow 13.4
Kiev 5.8
Prague 12.4
Bratislavia 9.8
Lithuania, cities 10-12 range
Lets build a list of cites that have
15000+ stadium
Large hockey fan population
Earning capacity within 20% of Canadian cities
Some probably are. But don't forget the NHL also extra revenue streams such as jersey sponsorships they haven't exploited yet.
Not every potential owner is as rich as Abramovich rich nor are they likely prepared to lose hundreds of millions of dollars for a bit of "fun". After a short period of time they'd expect to try and make money or at least cut their losses.
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