Management Eugene Melnyk - Lawsuits, rants and more... Part 5.6 (YOUS)

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Sweatred

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Haha, yes there has been a time. The problem was the inability of our GMs at the time to pay for the top talent.

Money talks, and there were several years where we were one of the best teams in the league, and arguably the best place to go to contend for a cup.

The problem was everyone knew that we were never going to compete contract wise with other teams, and we never did.

Thats okay - it’s cold here and our population is small. The city doesn’t generate enough income to overwhelm other teams offers .

The strength of our FA appeal will be in The Connor Brown / Shawn Meachearn type acquisitions who could be a replacement level player on another team but may take advantage of their opportunity to boost them from $1 million type player into $2-5 million type player in the right situation.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

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There has never been a time in our history where the strength of our roster greatly increased our chances of attracting UFA’s

Our needle moves between 0-2 out of 10 based on the strength of our roster. We were at 0-1 and it’s moving toward 1-2.

What are our top signings over 20+ years including some SC rosters ? 1 year to Hasek ? Todd White ? Clarke M ? 33? year old Gonchar ? Joe Corvo ?

That’s as good as it got in the best of times.
Realistically, you're probably closer to right than anyone arguing it, but we'll never really know from not getting out there and spending with the big boys. It's not in the cards financially either way.
 

GCK

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There has never been a time in our history where the strength of our roster greatly increased our chances of attracting UFA’s

Our needle moves between 0-2 out of 10 based on the strength of our roster. We were at 0-1 and it’s moving toward 1-2.

What are our top signings over 20+ years including some SC rosters ? 1 year to Hasek ? Todd White ? Clarke M ? 33? year old Gonchar ? Joe Corvo ?

That’s as good as it got in the best of times.
We’ve also never been in the financial position to compete for top notch UFAs. When you step back and look at it there are only a few teams that have successfully acquired UFAs. Outside of NYR/NJ, Philly, Toronto, Dallas and Florida with Bob which teams have acquired high end UFAs. Detroit did when they had a 90M payroll in the last century.
 

Sweatred

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We’ve also never been in the financial position to compete for top notch UFAs. When you step back and look at it there are only a few teams that have successfully acquired UFAs. Outside of NYR/NJ, Philly, Toronto, Dallas and Florida with Bob which teams have acquired high end UFAs. Detroit did when they had a 90M payroll in the last century.

MTL acquired Anderson, Toffoli, and Hoffman in the last 16 months - probably a few I’m missing .

I’m very aware we have no money and no beaches (affluent Amenities). Seth jones signed on for a crappy blackhawks team. The annual UFA list has lots of teams getting decent player. Taylor hall signed in Buffalo, Boston etc …. Vegas gets everyone which proves the value of sun, taxes, and affluent amenities.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

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MTL acquired Anderson, Toffoli, and Hoffman in the last 16 months - probably a few I’m missing .

I’m very aware we have no money and no beaches (affluent Amenities). Seth jones signed on for a crappy blackhawks team. The annual UFA list has lots of teams getting decent player.
Yes, teams that can spend to do it. Something we can't and won't do. The rest is irrelevant until you get out there and try.
 

Sweatred

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Yes, teams that can spend to do it. Something we can't and won't do. The rest is irrelevant until you get out there and try.

I agree … but weve tried it … we just don’t get news on every offer we make and every player who turns it down. By all accounts we lost on Toffoli and had to take Dadonov. Toffoli now may be worth a 1-2 RD pick or would help these kids more then Dadonov/Holden.

I bet this happens 1-5 times an off-season and we chalk it up to bad pro scouting when we get option E…

You hear it with the jays too when they have to move assets to trade for a pitcher vs attract the top UFA players … and they have money and decent restaurants.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

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I agree … but weve tried it … we just don’t get news on every offer we make and every player who turns it down. By all accounts we lost on Toffoli and had to take Dadonov. Toffoli now may be worth a 1-2 RD pick or would help these kids more then Dadonov/Holden.

I bet this happens 1-5 times an off-season and we chalk it up to bad pro scouting when we get option E…

You hear it with the jays too when they have to move assets to trade for a pitcher vs attract the top UFA players … and they have money and decent restaurants.
That's just it though, very little in the way of rumored or confirmed that they've attempted, so it's just pointing to the unknown as proof, which is not proof. A small littering of known attempts over the years isn't quite enough. There's Toffoli who we were apparently second fiddle to while being a last place team still rebuilding fighting with the cup finalist for rights. Dadonov was a consolation prize to Toffoli, but he was still a UFA that chose the destination, so that supports that it's possible more than the opposite. Clarkson years ago for the same scenario of us losing out to the Leafs. I can't recall pretty much anything else in semi recent years.

The team was either struggling to keep the players they did have under their tight budget, or trying to stay at or below the floor in real spending during lean years. It's just not a team with the financial flexibility to get involved other than very odd years where things line up. How many years during Alfie and Karlsson's tenures were we obviously missing 1-2 important pieces in a top 4 D or top 6 F and we heard from Murray about budget, budget, budget. Surely they would have attempted to fill those holes had they had the finances, even if it were Dadonov like fall back options.
 

Sweatred

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That's just it though, very little in the way of rumored or confirmed that they've attempted, so it's just pointing to the unknown as proof, which is not proof. A small littering of known attempts over the years isn't quite enough. There's Toffoli who we were apparently second fiddle to while being a last place team still rebuilding fighting with the cup finalist for rights. Dadonov was a consolation prize to Toffoli, but he was still a UFA that chose the destination, so that supports that it's possible more than the opposite. Clarkson years ago for the same scenario of us losing out to the Leafs. I can't recall pretty much anything else in semi recent years.

The team was either struggling to keep the players they did have under their tight budget, or trying to stay at or below the floor in real spending during lean years. It's just not a team with the financial flexibility to get involved other than very odd years where things line up. How many years during Alfie and Karlsson's tenures were we obviously missing 1-2 important pieces in a top 4 D or top 6 F and we heard from Murray about budget, budget, budget. Surely they would have attempted to fill those holes had they had the finances, even if it were Dadonov like fall back options.

Players give us good insight - Methot is on record for laughing at the idea of Jones coming here … in the end we aren’t going to get that side of the story - it doesn’t benefit the NHL or it’s partners to share why players don’t want to go to certain places.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

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Players give us good insight - Methot is on record for laughing at the idea of Jones coming here … in the end we aren’t going to get that side of the story - it doesn’t benefit the NHL or it’s partners to share why players don’t want to go to certain places.
I agree that we will never get that side of the story, nor will the team be able to get involved because of financial restrictions, so we'll never really know.
 

GCK

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MTL acquired Anderson, Toffoli, and Hoffman in the last 16 months - probably a few I’m missing .

I’m very aware we have no money and no beaches (affluent Amenities). Seth jones signed on for a crappy blackhawks team. The annual UFA list has lots of teams getting decent player. Taylor hall signed in Buffalo, Boston etc …. Vegas gets everyone which proves the value of sun, taxes, and affluent amenities.
Anderson was a trade, Toffoli is a mid range UFA like Dadonov was and Hoffman is a low tier UFA. I’m talking about the types of UFAs that we can’t sign.
 

GCK

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I agree … but weve tried it … we just don’t get news on every offer we make and every player who turns it down. By all accounts we lost on Toffoli and had to take Dadonov. Toffoli now may be worth a 1-2 RD pick or would help these kids more then Dadonov/Holden.

I bet this happens 1-5 times an off-season and we chalk it up to bad pro scouting when we get option E…

You hear it with the jays too when they have to move assets to trade for a pitcher vs attract the top UFA players … and they have money and decent restaurants.
Pure conjecture on your part. Even if true Dorion should avoid signing option E and get an equivalent through the waiver wire.
 

Ice-Tray

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Yeah I think first and foremost we have never been in the running for the top guys because we have never been in a position to buy them.

When we were a top team in the league, we were never rumoured to be in the running because the prices were out of our league, not because Ottawa was cold.

Now in the cap world we have either been at the cap when we were really good, or we were broke and couldn’t compete for top UFAs when we had space.

Players will go where the money and opportunity to win is. We have never been able or willing to offer that.

I don’t buy that good players won’t come here no matter what. All things being equal we may be in tough, but when we’re good, and if we offered comparable money, we could get players.

Whether it’s worth it on the open market is an entirely different question.
 

Sweatred

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Pure conjecture on your part. Even if true Dorion should avoid signing option E and get an equivalent through the waiver wire.

Oh really ? Carolina and Calgary seem to be doing fine with our “bad pucks” vs grabbing someone off the waiver wire.
 

GCK

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Oh really ? Carolina and Calgary seem to be doing fine with our “bad pucks” vs grabbing someone off the waiver wire.
What the hell are you talking about ? I genuinely can’t see your point.
 

Sweatred

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What the hell are you talking about ? I genuinely can’t see your point.

Should I be surprised ? I think I answered your Q… Not sure how to answer that question anyway ?not really sure what the hell means either.
 
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GCK

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Should I be surprised ? I think I answered your Q… Not sure how to answer that question anyway ?not really sure what the hell means either.
Let’s try again.

Settling for Option E as you put it is a waste. Rather than signing guys like Del Zotto this year, Galchenyuk last year or Ron Hainsey types just grab some stiff off waivers like Gaudette.

What are you saying about Carolina and Calgary ?
 

Sweatred

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Let’s try again.

Settling for Option E as you put it is a waste. Rather than signing guys like Del Zotto this year, Galchenyuk last year or Ron Hainsey types just grab some stiff off waivers like Gaudette.

What are you saying about Carolina and Calgary ?

They signed Gud and Stepan … also known as our complete Dorion misses … or E signing … apparently decent on playoff teams … but the constant source of complaints from our fan base re: PD poor pro scouting abilities.
 
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bashbros32

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Gudbranson is the 5th defenseman on Calgary in TOI/G
Stepan is the 12th forward on Carolina (minimum 30gp) in TOI/G

they are decent in replacement level roles... which they were not asked to do in Ottawa...
 
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