Erik Karlsson's atrocious defending vs Hawks (3 examples)

[Star Ocean]

What is it with this board and Erik Karlsson hate?

If he was Canadian he wouldnt get half as much hate.

 

[tiburon12]

Big EK fan, but he’s one guy where mainstream analytics twitter seems to be intentionally obtuse about. It’s not hugely impressive that you tilt the ice offensively so much when every counter attack is an adventure because you can’t/won’t play decent D in your own zone.

I’m not saying he’s bad all the time or that his positives don’t outweigh the negatives by a lot, but for example guys like Filipovic and Berkshire still have him as by far the best D when it’s pretty clear that a lot of goals against have been directly his fault the last year. He just seems like a glass cannon.

One thing those particular guys really value is zone exits. this article can help break it down Analyzing the NHL’s skill players: Who is the best at breaking out? - Sportsnet.ca

Everyone who has played and/or coached agrees that zone exits are incredibly valuable and critical to a teams success. That's why Karlsson's value remains so high. This isnt to absolve him of any defensive miscues, but if people box in their role of a defenseman as only a player that prevents goals from going in, then that's on them.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

EK has always been questionable defensively, but that's not what hes paid for. Hes always been that way and at this point, it is what it is. He'll lead defenders in scoring when healthy, but can be a tire fire in certain situations. You take the good with the bad and most of the time, you get the good.

 

[Nate070]

Ah, the daily "let's bash Karlsson" thread. There was a gap there between this one and the previous one, I was getting worried.

Bashing?? You had some video there to review. Comments?
He looks like he does not give a damn there. Well, contract is signed...
I really hope he picks up his game because otherwise that contract will look really bad in a couple of years

 

[Star Ocean]

Bashing?? You had some video there to review. Comments?
He looks like he does not give a damn there. Well, contract is signed...
I really hope he picks up his game because otherwise that contract will look really bad in a couple of years

Yes bashing. It started as early as his first game in a 82 game season.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

The question is, is he still injured? Doubt he's 100%.

Really? Is that how we're going to play it this year again?

 

[RorschachWJK]

Ah, the daily "let's bash Karlsson" thread. There was a gap there between this one and the previous one, I was getting worried.

When you are hyped like the next Bourque/Lidström and then fall far short of the expectations, fallout is inevitable and persistent. Doesn't help that some extreme zealot fans (I do not mean you) stir the pot every now and then to keep the stew hot.

For other examples see Patrik Laine, Auston Mathews etc.

 

[Beville]

Wow, they really aren’t good plays at all...

EK has always had this “terrible defender” branding since day 1, week 1 but he wasn’t this bad in Ottawa.

Maybe fatherhood has checked him out for a while.

 

[WesMcCauley]

All defensemen make mistakes like that regularly. The way people evaluate Karlsson's defensive game compared to all the other top defensemen is stupid.. Is EK a top purely defensive defensemen? No. Is he much better than average when you take in account every part of defending? yes. Which his underlying stats clearly shows.

Take a look at the goals against for Doughty, Rielly and Hedman just in their last game. It happens all the time, no matter if you are EK, Hedman, Doughty, Burns, Rielly etc. The way people find these short clips of EK being on the ice for goals against and make it seem like the other top defensemen dont make exactly the same mistakes is a little stupid...
EK also plays in front of the worst goaltending in the NHL which means he doesnt exactly get any help from his goalies.

LA (Doughty with weak defending on multiple goals against Vancouver).
Los Angeles Kings - Vancouver Canucks - October 9th, 2019

Leafs (Rielly against Shatty specially), Tampa (Hedman on for multiple weak goals against). Rielly has been awful defensively so far this season as well.


Tampa Bay Lightning - Toronto Maple Leafs - October 10th, 2019

 

[bert]

Ah, the daily "let's bash Karlsson" thread. There was a gap there between this one and the previous one, I was getting worried.

Lol was thinking the same thing. Its funny because its the same posters for the most part. Its like a thought bubble comes up in their head. 'This is it, nows my chance im gonna be the one that is right this time'. Were now on time 6388368636 but he always comes back and plays well.

 

[Stubu]

An argument about outstandingly bad plays supported by video clips isn't "bashing". The EK65 defense team didn't really need to jump in yet; the OP didn't make any claims about the rest of the season. (This might just as well be the usual slow start to a season. Those plays warrant pointing out regardless.)

 

[bar1]

All defensemen make mistakes like that regularly.

Well... XD...No they don't. That's what those defenders are paid for! They don't pay them millions for playing like garbage.

 

[Sol]

The question is, is he still injured? Doubt he's 100%.

At what point is it injury vs he sucks more now?

 

[LennyV]

Can the defensive organisation and tactics be a factor? Wasn’t he pairs with Burns in previous games, now they’re icing Burns-Vlasic, EK-Dillon. Is SJ deep enough with defensive minded players to utilize both Burns and EK efficiantly?

 

[Chayos]

What is it with this board and Erik Karlsson hate?

If he was Canadian he wouldnt get half as much hate.

I disagree, because Canadians like Lucic and Neal got lambasted by their fan bases routinely for plays like this.

 

[Sasso09]

All defensemen make mistakes like that regularly. The way people evaluate Karlsson's defensive game compared to all the other top defensemen is stupid.. Is EK a top purely defensive defensemen? No. Is he much better than average when you take in account every part of defending? yes. Which his underlying stats clearly shows.

Take a look at the goals against for Doughty, Rielly and Hedman just in their last game. It happens all the time, no matter if you are EK, Hedman, Doughty, Burns, Rielly etc. The way people find these short clips of EK being on the ice for goals against and make it seem like the other top defensemen dont make exactly the same mistakes is a little stupid...
EK also plays in front of the worst goaltending in the NHL which means he doesnt exactly get any help from his goalies.

LA (Doughty with weak defending on multiple goals against Vancouver).
Los Angeles Kings - Vancouver Canucks - October 9th, 2019

Leafs (Rielly against Shatty specially), Tampa (Hedman on for multiple weak goals against). Rielly has been awful defensively so far this season as well.


Tampa Bay Lightning - Toronto Maple Leafs - October 10th, 2019

Rielly gets burnt like that every game. He doesn't get as much hate as Karlsson because no one outside of Toronto considers him a top 5 D.

 

[ijuka]

Watching those, looks like Karlsson's mailing it in and more interested in just collecting his cheque than putting in the effort. Especially the last goal was awful. Was he trying to defend against his guy by shoving him with his ass or something?

 

[The S5]

Bashing?? You had some video there to review. Comments?
He looks like he does not give a damn there. Well, contract is signed...
I really hope he picks up his game because otherwise that contract will look really bad in a couple of years

Looked bad the day he signed it.

 

[BLONG7]

The question is, is he still injured? Doubt he's 100%.

This is always the excuse.......but the guy has never been good in his own end, and some nights he is beyond awful. His offense has been able to make up for it, but he has never been a good player on his half of the ice.

If he is injured, he shouldn't play...especially if he is that bad.

 

[The S5]

Rielly gets burnt like that every game. He doesn't get as much hate as Karlsson because no one outside of Toronto considers him a top 5 D.

Nope. You don't get to claim fancy stats and "other guys stink too" to absolve abysmal defensive play. Karlsson has always been suspect in his own end and looks to be declining in that regard.

Also, Hedman is far and away a better defender than Karlsson or Rielly.

 

[snu22fint]

Next month there will be a thread about how he scored 21 points in 16 games and +8. Karlsson always has these kind of slumps. Lets hope its a short one this time. I'm a bit worried tho. I thought he was going to go bananas out of the gate simply beacuase he had something to prove from last season but it was the opposite. well well. let's wait and see.

 

[Star Ocean]

I disagree, because Canadians like Lucic and Neal got lambasted by their fan bases routinely for plays like this.

How is Lucic and Neal even a comparison?

 

[forecheck]

EXAMPLE 1



EXAMPLE 2



EXAMPLE 3

This is nothing new - he is a give away machine - he will make one highlight play vs 10 give aways - people will remember the 1 highlight - Not worth his contract IMHO

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Nope. You don't get to claim fancy stats and "other guys stink too" to absolve abysmal defensive play. Karlsson has always been suspect in his own end and looks to be declining in that regard.

Also, Hedman is far and away a better defender than Karlsson or Rielly.

I don't think he absolved Karlsson from anything...

 

[GKG18]

When you are among the top 3 highest paid Defensemen in the NHL, you are open to such criticism. Yes, he makes the same mistakes that other humans do, but the expectations are (appropriately) higher. I don't think anyone really dislikes the guy or even his game. When top guys put forth s**t efforts, they should be called out.