Player Discussion Erik Karlsson Discussion Thread Part III

[The Lewler]

Wort part is, we're going to see the same thing with Stone and the Selke in a few years. No matter how magical Stone is on both sides of the puck, he won't be in any serious discussion for the award, or even talked about that much by the media outside of the city.

Wrong.

Mark Stone is a beauty Canadian boy.

He consistently gets praised by all the media that cover Sens games. (both homers and visitors)

 

[BondraTime]

Wrong.

Mark Stone is a beauty Canadian boy.

He consistently gets praised by all the media that cover Sens games. (both homers and visitors)

No kidding

We (broadly speaking) have a huge case of overcompensation.

 

[Nordic*]

Even though Ottawa's record looks good, I still think that the team (and Karlsson himself) would benefit even more if he were to take charge and try to create more offence.

Right now it seems like putting a Volvo engine in a Mustang. You don't get all the power you could.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Even though Ottawa's record looks good, I still think that the team (and Karlsson himself) would benefit even more if he were to take charge and try to create more offence.

Right now it seems like putting a Volvo engine in a Mustang. You don't get all the power you could.

I agree if Karlsson were to be given free reign, this offense would be lethal. Apparently, Karlsson is playing defensively to show the precedent for the others, which shouldn't be the case honestly.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I agree if Karlsson were to be given free reign, this offense would be lethal. Apparently, Karlsson is playing defensively to show the precedent for the others, which shouldn't be the case honestly.

The offense would be lethal but we now rely on him for a big chunk of our defensive ability. The only way we can allow EK to have free reign, AND be successful, is 1 of 2 things:

1) Have Hjammer/Vlasic on the next pairing (people really have no idea how much Keith and Burns have much, much lesser pressure on them to be excellent defensively when on the 2nd pairing they have 2 top 5 defensive defenders in the game)

2) Have an absolutely potent offensive core like Letang has in Pitts.

HM: 3) Have an elite, elite goaltender.

 

[Ben White]

The offense would be lethal but we now rely on him for a big chunk of our defensive ability. The only way we can allow EK to have free reign, AND be successful, is 1 of 2 things:

1) Have Hjammer/Vlasic on the next pairing (people really have no idea how much Keith and Burns have much, much lesser pressure on them to be excellent defensively when on the 2nd pairing they have 2 top 5 defensive defenders in the game)

2) Have an absolutely potent offensive core like Letang has in Pitts.

HM: 3) Have an elite, elite goaltender.

Exactly, Burns is in a position to focus on offense more or less the whole time and is not assigned in the shutdown role EK is at the moment. EK on the Sharks would hit 100 points and be a +40 or something. Sometimes it feels like the people handing out/voting for/writing about the awards can't think. Like the false argument that Karlsson was robbed last year cause Sens didn't make the playoffs. Cmon! It's an individual award. To perform a generational season on a Non playoff team is more impressive individually than to do it on a contender. Period. You have to use some context off course but a player shoudn't be punished individually for playing with lesser talent. Ok, if the Pens didn't make the playoffs an argument might, just might be justified against their #1 D, but on a grinding bubble team with hardly any elite talent in their roster and with their so called #1 C (Turris) out, I mean, and yet finish top 5 in the league in points playing D for that team leading that team in points by 21 over the second best guy who's supposed to be a somewhat elite player himself (Stone) I mean... This is more impressive than to score a bunch of goals and points on a contender having the best shutdown D in the league getting all the tougher matchups. There's no logic what so ever.

 

[kenmark]

Second most

http://www.espn.com/nhl/statistics/player/_/stat/defensive/sort/blockedShots

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Exactly, Burns is in a position to focus on offense more or less the whole time and is not assigned in the shutdown role EK is at the moment. EK on the Sharks would hit 100 points and be a +40 or something. Sometimes it feels like the people handing out/voting for/writing about the awards can't think. Like the false argument that Karlsson was robbed last year cause Sens didn't make the playoffs. Cmon! It's an individual award. To perform a generational season on a Non playoff team is more impressive individually than to do it on a contender. Period. You have to use some context off course but a player shoudn't be punished individually for playing with lesser talent. Ok, if the Pens didn't make the playoffs an argument might, just might be justified against their #1 D, but on a grinding bubble team with hardly any elite talent in their roster and with their so called #1 C (Turris) out, I mean, and yet finish top 5 in the league in points playing D for that team leading that team in points by 21 over the second best guy who's supposed to be a somewhat elite player himself (Stone) I mean... This is more impressive than to score a bunch of goals and points on a contender having the best shutdown D in the league getting all the tougher matchups. There's no logic what so ever.

Excellent post. You're coming a long way, Ben.

 

[DanyHeatley]

Exactly, Burns is in a position to focus on offense more or less the whole time and is not assigned in the shutdown role EK is at the moment. EK on the Sharks would hit 100 points and be a +40 or something. Sometimes it feels like the people handing out/voting for/writing about the awards can't think. Like the false argument that Karlsson was robbed last year cause Sens didn't make the playoffs. Cmon! It's an individual award. To perform a generational season on a Non playoff team is more impressive individually than to do it on a contender. Period. You have to use some context off course but a player shoudn't be punished individually for playing with lesser talent. Ok, if the Pens didn't make the playoffs an argument might, just might be justified against their #1 D, but on a grinding bubble team with hardly any elite talent in their roster and with their so called #1 C (Turris) out, I mean, and yet finish top 5 in the league in points playing D for that team leading that team in points by 21 over the second best guy who's supposed to be a somewhat elite player himself (Stone) I mean... This is more impressive than to score a bunch of goals and points on a contender having the best shutdown D in the league getting all the tougher matchups. There's no logic what so ever.

I agree, in a made up world, let's say PIT doesn't make the playoffs but Crosby finishes the season at the same exact pace he's producing right now.. and Mcdavid isn't born yet. Will it be wrong if he gets robbed of the Ted Lindsay Award if the Washington capitals somehow win the Stanley cup that same season and they give it to Ovechkin just cause he won the conn smythe so they might as well give him the Ted Lindsey too? Also let's pretend that Crosby was Slovakian.

 

[Ben White]

Omg Karlsson is everywhere. There is not a better over all player in the NHL right now than Erik Karlsson.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Omg Karlsson is everywhere. There is not a better over all player in the NHL right now than Erik Karlsson.

I don't want to nitpick. But I mean. Sidney Crosby

 

[Ben White]

I don't want to nitpick. But I mean. Sidney Crosby

Right now he's on par. Not better.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Right now he's on par. Not better.

I CAnt agree. Crosby seems to almost always simply be on a different level entirely from anyone else I watch. Including karlssson. Karlsson leads that second tier though

 

[BondraTime]

I CAnt agree. Crosby seems to almost always simply be on a different level entirely from anyone else I watch. Including karlssson. Karlsson leads that second tier though

Yeah, Crosby is bar none the best.

Malkin as well is unstoppable on his game.

McDavid too....

Karlsson is great, he isn't the best player in the league, very easy to say that.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Telling you guys. He needs to stop those behind the back passes.

Does a behind the back pass to the opposition, they score and he yells expletives. Seen it quite often this season

 

[DrEasy]

Telling you guys. He needs to stop those behind the back passes.

Does a behind the back pass to the opposition, they score and he yells expletives. Seen it quite often this season

Shot selection could be better too, but I nitpick.

 

[Ben White]

Yeah, Crosby is bar none the best.

Malkin as well is unstoppable on his game.

McDavid too....

Karlsson is great, he isn't the best player in the league, very easy to say that.

Not easy at all if he plays like he's done the last couple of games. Those guys you mentioned can focus on offense for most part, while Karlsson is assigned in a shutdown role while also trusted on for driving all the offense. That's insane but lately with his pre cooke skating back he's handled it, noone else could do what he's doing. Last game he was truely elite defensively too, except that frustration behind the back pass when already down 0-5 so it didn't really mean anything.

Put EK on a contender and put Crosby on a grinding team and you'd see that this is not Crosby ainec or anything.

Edit: I'm talking about the last 5 games or so, off course Crosby has been better if we're talking career or even the last couple of years or this season as a whole. But lately EK is actually back to almost pre slice level, it's something to behold.

 

[Mingus Dew]

It's not about the Norris. It's the recognition. Where was all this ga-ga love from the media last year when Erik did this?

Not only that, but what Erik did was more of an accomplishment simply because he isn't surrounded with the talent Burns has. Put Erik on a contending team and the freedom to fly and he'd break 100 points.

Quite frankly, I really don't care if Erik ever wins another Norris. After "due Doughty," the award has no meaning.

I mean, EK gets plenty of love from commentators and professionals around the league. This whole lack of respect thing strikes me as overblown.

As of right now, I think that Burns is having a better season than Karlsson. Does that make Burns a better player overall? Not in my opinion (and I'm guessing not in the opinion of most people). But dude is putting up crazy numbers on a great team and he deserves some recognition for it. Karlsson gets his props too, and when he is having a season worthy of the Norris he should win it. I think he had such a season last year, but the Sens missed the playoffs and that ended the discussion.

 

[Hutz]

I mean, EK gets plenty of love from commentators and professionals around the league. This whole lack of respect thing strikes me as overblown.

As of right now, I think that Burns is having a better season than Karlsson. Does that make Burns a better player overall? Not in my opinion (and I'm guessing not in the opinion of most people). But dude is putting up crazy numbers on a great team and he deserves some recognition for it. Karlsson gets his props too, and when he is having a season worthy of the Norris he should win it. I think he had such a season last year, but the Sens missed the playoffs and that ended the discussion.

I agree lack of respect is overblown.

I don't think many will disagree Burns deserves the Norris this year. With respect to last year, however, if the best d-man plays for the worst team, he's till the best d-man. I personally don't agree that making the playoffs should have much bearing on individual awards (except the Hart), but that's reality. Either way Burns has the Norris locked up barring something drastic happening, and rightfully so.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I don't think many will disagree Burns deserves the Norris this year. However, if the best d-man plays for the worst team, he's till the best d-man. I personally don't agree that making the playoffs should have much bearing on individual awards (except the Hart), but that's reality. Either way Burns has the Norris locked up barring something drastic happening, and rightfully so.

I agree. I think that whether or not a team makes the playoffs should have little bearing on an individual award like the Norris. But in reality it plays a huge role, and this is why EK didn't win it last year.

What I don't agree with is this idea that EK is held to some unfair double standard and doesn't get enough respect around the league.

 

[Hutz]

I agree. I think that whether or not a team makes the playoffs should have little bearing on an individual award like the Norris. But in reality it plays a huge role, and this is why EK didn't win it last year.

What I don't agree with is this idea that EK is held to some unfair double standard and doesn't get enough respect around the league.

I was editing my comment while you were replying. I agree that there's no big conspiracy to deny Erik the Norris. I do think he probably should have won last year, playoffs or not, but this year is all Burns.

 

[BondraTime]

I was editing my comment while you were replying. I agree that there's no big conspiracy to deny Erik the Norris. I do think he probably should have won last year, playoffs or not, but this year is all Burns.

Agreed.

The whole "personality/brand/Canadian/whatever other excuse karlsson's subjects can come up with" is embarrassing.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Agreed.

The whole "personality/brand/Canadian/whatever other excuse karlsson's subjects can come up with" is embarrassing.

I think that many of us as Sens fans (myself definitely included) suffer from small-man syndrome from time to time. It's fairly evident in the way that the Leafs and Habs are discussed, for example.

As a smaller, newer market it kind of makes sense to feel victimized when something seems unfair or illogical. But I don't think it's a particularly attractive colour on us.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Telling you guys. He needs to stop those behind the back passes.

Does a behind the back pass to the opposition, they score and he yells expletives. Seen it quite often this season

This is literally the only time(or maybeee second) time he has done that this season; he did it more often in previous seasons-- i'd love to see this "quite often" claim for this season.

Agreed.

The whole "personality/brand/Canadian/whatever other excuse karlsson's subjects can come up with" is embarrassing.

lmao, this guy watches a few prospect games, gets a few inside sources on a couple of prospects and now develops a new holier than thou attitude

relax, buddy, just because others have different opinions from you don't mean nothing on a hockey forum, and like the guy above said, EK is the first generational talent the Sens have ever had, obviously they're gonna be a bit over the top sometimes, just like any other fanbase who has a generational talent.

 

[BondraTime]

This is literally the only time(or maybeee second) time he has done that this season; he did it more often in previous seasons-- i'd love to see this "quite often" claim for this season.



lmao, this guy watches a few prospect games, gets a few inside sources on a couple of prospects and now develops a new holier than thou attitude

relax, buddy, just because others have different opinions from you don't mean nothing on a hockey forum, and like the guy above said, EK is the first generational talent the Sens have ever had, obviously they're gonna be a bit over the top sometimes, just like any other fanbase who has a generational talent.

No, I've had that same attitude for the past 7/8 years. I've just gotten fed up with the excuses we come up with.

Me having sources in the Q has what to do with this? I have no holier than thou attitude whatsoever, I am calling it how it is. I mean, read through the past thread and tell me it's not insecure through the roof, if you say it's not, you're lying. It's become absolutely ridiculous.

I mean, I'm not saying anything about prospects I've seen on a stream once or twice and making claims am I? I'm not crying about perceived slights all the time? I'd fit in better if so.

But yes, because I "had a few inside sources" I now feel the need to talk about how I have the opinion that we are insecure and go way overboard about Karlsson. I mean, I haven't been vocal about that for years now....

Lash out at me however you'd like, it's just furthering my point (obviously I'm not talking about a majority here)