Player Discussion Erik Brännström - D - Left is Right edition

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Gudbranson can clear the front of the net, Brannson cannot, who else can play a tough defensive game on this team? Not many. Gudbranson is the best of the worse, you can't have 3 or 4 small weak defencemen playing together they will get overwhelmed by bigger & tougher teams. Will Brannson be able to move Lucic out from in front of the net? ... NO ... but Gudbranson has a better chance of doing that.

And why Gudbranson is -15?


There is no logic to your words. And Eric Brannstrom stats at - 2.
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If you play hockey you surely understand that defensemen learn every opposing forward tendencies how gap them and not to look foolish.
Brannstrom has to play good minutes every game to be better. His pivoting is average and it concerns me. The rest is more then fine. But Gudbranson has nothing!
 

aragorn

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In what sport actually? This mentality exists only in NHL and with a few dinosaur coaches. I remember Yashin and Daigle were benched only once and that's it. Chabot was saying that he was thrown on the ice despite many mistakes and it made him a better player. Benching a talent is ridiculous.
I've played both Basketball & Football at very competitive levels & saw lots of players benched for mistakes myself included, it doesn't just happen in hockey regardless of talent level. Maybe Chabot should have been benched & we wouldn't be seeing so many glaring errors by him in games. Benching a player for mistakes made is the only tool coaches have with these millionaires, if he can't do that exactly what can a coach do when players persistently make glaring errors?
 
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aragorn

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And why Gudbranson is -15?


There is no logic to your words. And Eric Brannstrom stats at - 2.
20217123-2
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
If you play hockey you surely understand that defensemen learn every opposing forward tendencies how gap them and not to look foolish.
Brannstrom has to play good minutes every game to be better. His pivoting is average and it concerns me. The rest is more then fine. But Gudbranson has nothing!
Gudbranson has played all yr & Bransson has a handful of games. Gudbranson will be the guy Brannson runs to when Lucic decides to paste him into the boards.
 

Emrasie

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Mar 13, 2019
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I think he was benched just because DJ wanted to win and he thought that without EB the chances were better.
I understand his logic even if i'm not sure EB or not the end would have been different. What i don't understand is that he was not use on OT more. He finally played like 20s and Stu had a beautiful opportunity. Montréal too ..(however to me this turnover was more ont Tim than on Erik).
 

cudi

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I dont think most are against benchings. Just the whole 1 shift in the whole period seems excessive.

Missing a few shifts is just as effective. They get the message.
 
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SENATOR

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I've played both Basketball & Football at very competitive levels & saw lots of players benched for mistakes myself included, it doesn't just happen in hockey regardless of talent level. Maybe Chabot should have been benched & we wouldn't be seeing so many glaring errors by him in games. Benching a player for mistakes made is the only tool coaches have with these millionaires, if he can't do that exactly what can a coach do when players persistently make glaring errors?

You do not bench a big talent. It would not make any sense for a coach. In the future that big talent player would take a number and become that coach killer.
 

aragorn

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You do not bench a big talent. It would not make any sense for a coach. In the future that big talent player would take a number and become that coach killer.
I guess that is where we disagree, I don't see Brannstrom as a big talent I see him as a bubble top 4 player on defence with liabilities to his game as he showed in the last game. If he was a big talent than why wasn't he on this roster to start the season & why is he up & down so much? He's a good player who should get better, but IMO he is going to be in tough competition in the next few yrs with some of the prospects coming like Sanderson, JBD, Thomson & Zub who is so far showing us he is a solid defenceman.
 

Alf Silfversson

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Gudbranson can clear the front of the net, Brannson cannot, who else can play a tough defensive game on this team? Not many. Gudbranson is the best of the worse, you can't have 3 or 4 small weak defencemen playing together they will get overwhelmed by bigger & tougher teams. Will Brannson be able to move Lucic out from in front of the net? ... NO ... but Gudbranson has a better chance of doing that.

But the point of a player like Brannstrom is to not HAVE to clear the front of your net because you're getting the puck out of your zone. Gudbranson is terrible at that. He's, like you said, the best of the worse but his whole style of defending is to crosscheck people in front of the net. If the puck and the play is around your own net that much you've pretty much given yourself no chance to win.

Clearing the front of the net is a useful skill but if it is your primary skill (eg. Gudbranson, J. Brown) then you really aren't good at defending. You can be useful on the PK and in a few isolated situations but clearing your own zone is a lot more important. Now if you're excellent at both that's ideal but we're talking about a Pronger type player at that point. That'd be nice but Gudbranson and Brannstrom are both nowhere close to Chris Pronger, for different reasons.
 

DaveMatthew

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I've played both Basketball & Football at very competitive levels & saw lots of players benched for mistakes myself included, it doesn't just happen in hockey regardless of talent level. Maybe Chabot should have been benched & we wouldn't be seeing so many glaring errors by him in games. Benching a player for mistakes made is the only tool coaches have with these millionaires, if he can't do that exactly what can a coach do when players persistently make glaring errors?

Persistently?

Brannstrom is a 21 year old offensive defenseman who's played 38 NHL games. He's played pretty damn well.

He made a bad play. It happens. It's going to continue to happen, with the way he plays. We knew the type of player he was when we traded for him.

It'd be one thing if he was getting caved shift after shift, or if mistakes were the result of poor effort or lazy play. They're not.

Benching Brannstrom won't stop him from getting walked by McDavid or Matthews when they come down the ice. That'll happen, just like it happens to Gudbranson game after game.

It's funny how it goes:

Small offensive defenseman makes a bad defensive play: Bench him!
Big defensive defenseman makes a bad defensive play: He can clear the front of the net still!

Even with some gaffes, the upside of having Brannstrom in the lineup far outweighs the downside, considering a massive part of hockey is getting the puck to forwards up the ice.
 

aragorn

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Persistently?

Brannstrom is a 21 year old offensive defenseman who's played 38 NHL games. He's played pretty damn well.

He made a bad play. It happens. It's going to continue to happen, with the way he plays. We knew the type of player he was when we traded for him.

It'd be one thing if he was getting caved shift after shift, or if mistakes were the result of poor effort or lazy play. They're not.

Benching Brannstrom won't stop him from getting walked by McDavid or Matthews when they come down the ice. That'll happen, just like it happens to Gudbranson and Reilly game after game.
I agree & the coach decided to bench him for it which is his prerogative as a coach as we've seen a hundred coaches do it to other players. And life isn't fair some guys usually vets get more rope than rookies, it's just the way it is. That's sports.
 

DaveMatthew

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Gudbranson has played all yr & Bransson has a handful of games. Gudbranson will be the guy Brannson runs to when Lucic decides to paste him into the boards.

And Gudbranson will do what? Lose the fight and then get walked by McDavid he gets out of the box?
 

El Diego

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If you wanna bench Brannstrom because he isn't putting in effort, or isn't executing the game plan because he isn't up to speed mentally or technically, that's fine with me. But to bench a player to "wake them up" after getting beat by a skill move doesn't pass the smell test for me.
 

DaveMatthew

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I agree & the coach decided to bench him for it which is his prerogative as a coach as we've seen a hundred coaches do it to other players. And life isn't fair some guys usually vets get more rope than rookies, it's just the way it is. That's sports.

And coaches make bad decisions that lose them games, and eventually, get them fired. That's sports, fans can call it out. It just happened to Claude Julien. I'm sure there were fans on the Montreal board justifying why he had Kotkaniemi on such a short leash, too. His stubbornness and blind trust in the "vets" got him fired.

I like DJ. He seems like a really good guy, and the players seem to like him. But he's made some bonehead decisions.
 

Beech

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give DJ some credit..a dozen or so years as a player..an assistant coach in Junior. A head coach who won a Memorial Cup. An assistant in the pros.

I think that he knows a thing or two.

If he is benching him, there is a reason. Can you be sure that Brannstrom is not misbehaving off the ice, not listening or cooperating in practice. Not listening to instructions and not making adjustments in the game.

He may also be benching him so that he watches the game from up-top to see plays develop, etc. This may be a learning experience.
 
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aragorn

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But the point of a player like Brannstrom is to not HAVE to clear the front of your net because you're getting the puck out of your zone. Gudbranson is terrible at that. He's, like you said, the best of the worse but his whole style of defending is to crosscheck people in front of the net. If the puck and the play is around your own net that much you've pretty much given yourself no chance to win.

Clearing the front of the net is a useful skill but if it is your primary skill (eg. Gudbranson, J. Brown) then you really aren't good at defending. You can be useful on the PK and in a few isolated situations but clearing your own zone is a lot more important. Now if you're excellent at both that's ideal but we're talking about a Pronger type player at that point. That'd be nice but Gudbranson and Brannstrom are both nowhere close to Chris Pronger, for different reasons.
Come on, you've watched a lot of hockey as I have & in every game one team & then the other have opportunities in front of the net where defencemen & forwards are fighting for space. PMD are not going to have every situation where they can skate it out, that doesn't happen, maybe it happens more with him in there but it will never happen all the time. Clearing these big forwards that they have aren't ideal, but Gudbranson seems to be the best of the worse & every team has at least one. We should ask the goalie if he appreciates a defenceman clearing out the front of the net with less players to deflect the puck in front of them. And what happens if a forward drops his mitts with our PMD?
 
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aragorn

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And Gudbranson will do what? Lose the fight and then get walked by McDavid he gets out of the box?
Possibly, but he will also be the guy that gets that guy off the ice for 5 minutes so he doesn't run anyone else. Very few enforcers/players win every fight, that's why so many of them have no teeth, it's a very tough business.
 

Alf Silfversson

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Come on, you've watched a lot of hockey as I have & in every game one team & then the other have opportunities in front of the net where defencemen & forwards are fighting for space. PMD are not going to have every situation where they can skate it out, that doesn't happen, maybe it happens more with him in there but it will never happen all the time. Clearing these big defencemen that they have aren't ideal, but Gudbranson seems to be the best of the worse & every team has at least one. We should ask the goalie if he appreciates a defenceman clearing out the front of the net with less players to deflect the puck in front of them. And what happens if a forward drops his mitts with our PMD?

No one does everything they want to all the time in any sport much less the NHL. That includes clearing the front of the net. More often than not it just ends up as Gudbranson AND the opposing player giving our goalie a hard time. And when he does clear the player the other team usually still has the puck in our end. The guy is a serviceable 3rd pairing player but he deserves no more rope than Brannstrom or JBD next year, or Sanderson the year after. But that is what seems to be happening this year.

Ironically, Gudbranson's only really decent play this year has been when he's with Brannstrom, who can get the puck quickly and get it to our forwards cleanly.
 

Alfie11

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I don't know, I don't see the Brannstrom benching as a big deal? A guy got benched for making a bad play in a tight game. It happens.

A rookie defenceman, hesitated and made a bad play. He got beat to the inside by a goalscorer and the team went down 4-3 after being up 3-1. The team is desperate for wins, so the coach leans on his best defenceman to try and salvage something. Brannstrom got benched for making a bad play but also because this team just plays the heck out of Chabot when it's tight.

Brannstrom has looked good this year and got fairly consistent ice. I would wonder if the team sat him on a regular basis but in a game specific thing like the Habs game, that's a coaches decision.
 

DueDiligence

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You do not bench a big talent. It would not make any sense for a coach. In the future that big talent player would take a number and become that coach killer.
Not necessarily. Depends on the player. Entitled guys yes. Humble guys no.
 

aragorn

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No one does everything they want to all the time in any sport much less the NHL. That includes clearing the front of the net. More often than not it just ends up as Gudbranson AND the opposing player giving our goalie a hard time. And when he does clear the player the other team usually still has the puck in our end. The guy is a serviceable 3rd pairing player but he deserves no more rope than Brannstrom or JBD next year, or Sanderson the year after. But that is what seems to be happening this year.

Ironically, Gudbranson's only really decent play this year has been when he's with Brannstrom, who can get the puck quickly and get it to our forwards cleanly.
That's probably true, I have no high expectations of Gudbranson, I've watched him for yrs, he is what he is. And IMO most likely they will try & move him at the deadline since he is a UFA, unfortunately J. Brown is behind him who I think is worse & he is signed for another yr. They need someone big on defence, but everyone they have isn't that good so what do they do? As I've said Gud seems to be the best of the worse, but I also don't think that Brannstrom is a huge talent. He's a good PMD with defensive liabilities, but as I said I think he will have a tough time beating out Sanderson, JBD & maybe even Thomson at some point. Zub being a good all around solid defenceman might also have a spot for next yr too in the top 4. We'll see.
 

Alf Silfversson

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That's probably true, I have no high expectations of Gudbranson, I've watched him for yrs, he is what he is. And IMO most likely they will try & move him at the deadline since he is a UFA, unfortunately J. Brown is behind him who I think is worse & he is signed for another yr. They need someone big on defence, but everyone they have isn't that good so what do they do? As I've said Gud seems to be the best of the worse, but I also don't think that Brannstrom is a huge talent. He's a good PMD with defensive liabilities, but as I said I think he will have a tough time beating out Sanderson, JBD & maybe even Thomson at some point. Zub being a good all around solid defenceman might also have a spot for next yr too in the top 4. We'll see.

Zub has decent size and can play a little physical; I think he makes the team next year. At least I hope so. Sanderson might too, if he leaves school, but I imagine he'll start either in the AHL or on the 3rd pairing. JBD will probably need some seasoning. He'll be older than Brannstrom is now when next season starts but he'll have no pro experience.

I think at this point Chabot, Brannstrom, Zub and probably Zaitsev will form the top 4 next year at least. I would love to have a good physical RD replace Zaitsev in the top 4 but those are hard to come by.
 

El Diego

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I think the other issue is the saliency of the mistakes (this has been brought up sort of with Reilly in other threads). A mistake like Toffoli beating Brannstrom is obvious. But if a lower skilled d man chips the puck out of the zone rather than skating it out or making a good outlet pass, it may not even be viewed as an error (could actually be viewed as a positive thing by some people). But, over time, those things add up and impact your chances of winning.
 

Ouroboros

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Feb 3, 2008
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I don't get this line of thinking. What is Brannstrom going to learn by being benched for getting torched by a move from Toffoli? It's not like Brannstrom got beat due to lack of effort, he got beat by a move. The way to learn from that is to experience the move and have a response, not to sit for a period as a lesson. Like, I'm sure Brannstrom wasn't happy about it. No universe exists where if you don't bench Brannstrom after that mistake he thinks to himself "Wow I guess it's ok to screw up, so I won't do anything about it". This isn't even getting into the plausible idea that Brannstrom may now think any error leads to a benching, so he begins to play "safe", which will make him less effective. To be clear, I don't think this one period benching of Brannstrom will have any meaningful impact on his career, either positive or negative, so I think the best thing for everyone to do is just move on.

I agree that for the veterans, it will be harder for them to improve. But my conclusion on that is, if they cannot improve and they make these mistakes, you should bench them unless you don't have better options.

That's weird because I don't understand this line of thinking.

It doesn't matter whether Brannstrom is happy about what happened, only that it happened and that it needs to be corrected.

I don't understand concern about this making him play 'safe'. He didn't make a mistake by turning it over attempting a skill play to create offense - he made a technical error in neutral zone/blue line defending. A pretty basic one, in fact. When difference makers turn pucks over trying to create offense you live with it, to a reasonable extent at least, but these sort of technique errors need to be weeded out as soon as possible. Within reason - nobody plays perfect hockey. On top of that, Brannstrom is a top prospect and the expectations and standard for him are much higher than they are for someone like Reilly.

Your last few sentences pretty much sums up the prevailing opinion here on the coaching staff. If they hold the young guys to any sort of reasonable standard they catch an absurd amount of shit. Look at the Colin White situation. He struggled last year and was given endless rope to play his way out of it, but this year they pushed him much harder. He had to watch a few games. Response? He's playing a bit better. But people aren't willing to acknowledge that maybe DJ had it right all along and what he did worked. Instead the consensus is that he was holding the player back and White would have figured everything out regardless. The game is rigged against him; all the successes are the players alone and all the failures are the coaching staff's alone.

There have to be consequences.
 

El Diego

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That's weird because I don't understand this line of thinking.

1. It doesn't matter whether Brannstrom is happy about what happened, only that it happened and that it needs to be corrected.

2. I don't understand concern about this making him play 'safe'. He didn't make a mistake by turning it over attempting a skill play to create offense - he made a technical error in neutral zone/blue line defending. A pretty basic one, in fact. When difference makers turn pucks over trying to create offense you live with it, to a reasonable extent at least, but these sort of technique errors need to be weeded out as soon as possible. Within reason - nobody plays perfect hockey. On top of that, Brannstrom is a top prospect and the expectations and standard for him are much higher than they are for someone like Reilly.

3. Your last sentence pretty much sums up the prevailing opinion here on the coaching staff. If they hold the young guys to any sort of reasonable standard they catch an absurd amount of shit. Look at the Colin White situation. He struggled last year and was given endless rope to play his way out of it, but this year they pushed him much harder. He had to watch a few games. Response? He's playing a bit better. But people aren't willing to acknowledge that maybe DJ had it right all along and what he did worked. Instead the consensus is that he was holding the player back and White would have figured everything out regardless. The game is rigged against him; all the successes are the players alone and all the failures are the coaching staff's alone.

4. There have to be consequences.

1. Agreed that it doesn't really matter what Brannstrom thinks and that the important bit is that needs to be corrected. The reason I brought that up is because it was being implied that Brannstrom needs to be informed that his error was an error -- come on, he knows that. Anyway, I just disagree on how is best to correct a mistake like this. This is the crux of the debate and imo the only real issue regarding this whole thing.

2. If a player is benched for an error, they are more likely to choose plays that don't end up as errors. That means that they will try less high risk plays. This wasn't a main argument of mine, but that was my point there. I agree that categorically the error Brannstrom made is different from rushing the puck up the ice.

3. I have no opinion on the Colin White thing, I barely watched the team last year. You are extrapolating this incident to the board's general opinion which I understand, but like I said I have no real opinion on this point.

4. I mean, I guess so, but I think this is a little reductive. If say Brannstrom made this mistake in practice and DJ said "Come on Branny, that's a bush league move just do this." and then Brannstrom still makes the mistake by ignoring the coaching, I would say benching him is a good move. That's very unlikely, and I am guessing DJ was just upset with the play in the moment and made a decision to sit him for a while because he thought it was the best thing for the team and player. That's fine, I just question it in the long run. But like I said earlier, I bet this incident has zero impact on Brannstrom's career, either positively or negatively.
 
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