Great Britain: EPIHL and NIHL discussion thread

[villevalo]

Petran leaves the Bees, absolute balls.

Need a replacement quick.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

I see Danny Wood was sent down from Sheffield to Sheffield (EPIHL)

He's one of the guys that was playing Div III NCAA after playing NAHL and spend a couple years at Shattuck St. Mary's prep school. How far behind the play was he in the EIHL? 18GP 0pts as a 23 year old is mighty poo

 

[ChaiTiefling]

I see Danny Wood was sent down from Sheffield to Sheffield (EPIHL)

He's one of the guys that was playing Div III NCAA after playing NAHL and spend a couple years at Shattuck St. Mary's prep school. How far behind the play was he in the EIHL? 18GP 0pts as a 23 year old is mighty poo

He wasn't 'sent down' in the conventional sense, Steelers and Steeldogs don't have a great relationship, Steelers released him and 'Dogs signed him.

Sounds like a combination of injury and being stuck too far down the depth chart, he's a good player but Steelers aren't a great place for a young Brit to develop; they've lost their fair share of good kids over the last few years because they simply don't get the chances that other Elite teams give.

 

[villevalo]

He wasn't 'sent down' in the conventional sense, Steelers and Steeldogs don't have a great relationship, Steelers released him and 'Dogs signed him.

Sounds like a combination of injury and being stuck too far down the depth chart, he's a good player but Steelers aren't a great place for a young Brit to develop; they've lost their fair share of good kids over the last few years because they simply don't get the chances that other Elite teams give.

Basically that.

Finnerty has a pretty bad record with giving younger guys ice time, and if he and the Steelers hadn't been badmouthing the Scimitars/Steeldogs for years then they'd have Bowns as a top goalie for years to come and Ozolins who's a great little import.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Swindon sign new import Henri Sandvik

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=14656

Chris Jones back to Cardiff NIHL devils

 

[villevalo]

It's a hard one to call import wise, who sits out from now on.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Don't suppose the games are going to be on this weekend

I walked all the way to the Agric building today only to find out the lecture was cancelled

 

[villevalo]

Haha I just fancied a day at home, I knew public transport would be absolute hell. Hopefully the Sunday games are still on. Just need Cardiff to sign up Lyle and a win might be doable.

 

[Siamese Dream]

All EPL games today are on except for Peterborough v Telford

Swindon have signed Oliver Betteridge from Nottingham, not clear whether he's just on loan for injury cover or joining full time http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/sport/icehockey/10173269.Betteridge_signs_for_Wildcats/ good for him to get some EPL experience.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Swindon v MK confirmed off

And here's Sheffield's new import goalie

 

[Alpine]

Just watching the Manchester Phoenix weekily.
They've announced ice times for a new women's program at the new rink in Widnes.
Good on a team for supporting NIHL, age group youth, sledge and women's hockey

 

[Siamese Dream]

Romford rink confirmed closing in April with no plans of a temporary rink while the new leisure centre is being constructed. So it looks like no Romford Raiders in the NIHL in the near future, I think the new facility isn't going to be open until 2015.

update: Apparently they're going to try to play in Lee Valley

 

[Beville]

Romford rink confirmed closing in April with no plans of a temporary rink while the new leisure centre is being constructed. So it looks like no Romford Raiders in the NIHL in the near future, I think the new facility isn't going to be open until 2015.

update: Apparently they're going to try to play in Lee Valley

I may just about manage an entire season without being sworn at then...

 

[ukyote]

You may have to forgive my ignorance a bit here, but it seems as though the same problems persist from when I last went to a lot of domestic games... why is everything so fragmented?

Years ago there was a bona fide "feud" between the ISL and the Findus BIHL(?), with the respective owners actually firing shots at each other in public... to the obvious detriment of the sport as a whole.

I'm not suggesting this is the case now, but would it not be better to try and amalgamate the leagues somehow? There just seems to be nothing by way of cohesion... couldn't they implement promotion and relegation to give "lower tier" players a chance to improve against the best? Or are we still in the same state we were a decade or so ago with competing egos and interest calling the shots...?

 

[Siamese Dream]

You may have to forgive my ignorance a bit here, but it seems as though the same problems persist from when I last went to a lot of domestic games... why is everything so fragmented?

Years ago there was a bona fide "feud" between the ISL and the Findus BIHL(?), with the respective owners actually firing shots at each other in public... to the obvious detriment of the sport as a whole.

I'm not suggesting this is the case now, but would it not be better to try and amalgamate the leagues somehow? There just seems to be nothing by way of cohesion... couldn't they implement promotion and relegation to give "lower tier" players a chance to improve against the best? Or are we still in the same state we were a decade or so ago with competing egos and interest calling the shots...?

It's not even close to how it used to be. The EPL is not even close to the EIHL, whereas there was less of a gap between the BISL and the BNL. EIHL teams have links with EPL teams, Swindon have had players on 2-way with Coventry who when went on to play full time in Coventry, the same with Sheffield Steeldogs and Hull. Basingstoke recently loaned Nottingham's backup goalie while Stevie Lyle was away with GB.

Promotion between the leagues would not work, the clubs just do not have the fan support or budget to go to the higher league. Guildford have the budget to play in the EIHL, but it is not in their interest because the increased gate revenue would not make up for the increase in wages, so paradoxically they make more profit in the EPL than they would in the EIHL. The reason the likes of Romford, Wightlink and Chelmsford are in the NIHL now is they simply did not have the budget to be competitive in the EPL anymore.

 

[ChaiTiefling]

Simply put, self-interest > money > image > everything else. So yes, nothing's changed all that much.

 

[ukyote]

Yeah I noticed that there were a couple of ex EIHL sides in the EPL now... wondered what happened there.

Even given the differences in standards, is it in the national team's interest to have these distinct setups, and wouldn't the quality, wage levels and even fan bases "self-correct" if things were amalgamated? Would promotion / relegation between the NIHL and EPL be a total non-starter?

Again, not wholly aware of the back story as I've been out of contact with domestic hockey in this country for over a decade realistically.

 

[ChaiTiefling]

Basingstoke simply ran out of money and reputable owners, with so many EPL sides near them dropping was their best option and they've done well out of it. Manchester? No idea. I'm not sold on the idea that they weren't competitive; in their last EIHL season they reached both Cup finals and had the best record in the league through October, it was only the loss of Dwight Parrish and a glut of injuries over Christmas and the tail end of the season that derailed them. Money? Nah, travel costs are more and their crowds have dropped every season since moving (inversely proportional to ticket prices). Desire to win something in a city built on sporting success? Maybe, but with their resources that should have gone better.

The interests of the national team aren't taken into consideration at a league level; Team GB is a mere nuisance. I don't know what the ideal structure is, but a single governing body who all the clubs are answerable to without question would be a massive leap forward. Your 'self-correction' theory is one I subscribe to; start everyone at the same level and you'd soon see who would belong at the top.

 

[KieranA91]

God I absolutely love my life.

Earlier this season Mr.Bevis made amends by virtually rugby tackling a Romford player to the ice, with the fans then starting a "BEVIS" chant. First time I've ever heard a chant for an official other than "The referee's a ******" and general abuse!

For the record there was a reason for a takedown!

 

[Siamese Dream]

Import levels in the EIHL need to be reduced, it's as simple as that (not having that debate in here though, take it to the EIHL thread)

Lower the import levels and the EIHL is more appealing to clubs like Basingstoke and Manchester to come back up, and makes promotion/relegation way more feasible. Also it of course develops British players. You could keep import levels in the EPL at 4 because the better Brits will righfully go to the EIHL, but over time you could lower it to 3. The old EPL teams could then afford to come back up.

In an ideal world I'd like to see a 12-team EIHL with 2 of Basingstoke, Manchester, Guildford coming up. If all 3 would be willing to come up, maybe expand the league to a new city and have 14 teams.

A 12 team EPL would look nice. There would be 8 of the current teams and you could bring back up Romford and Chelmsford (don't want Wightlink in it with that terrible rink) plus Solway and Billingham from the north. Oxford can come back up to NIHL1 south plus Bristol when they get a new facility to keep it at 9 teams, maybe bring up Peterborough from division 2 for 10 teams and keep promotion/relegation between NIHL1/2

Another change I definitely want to see in the EPL is British backup goalies have to meet a quota of minutes played during the season.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Earlier this season Mr.Bevis made amends by virtually rugby tackling a Romford player to the ice, with the fans then starting a "BEVIS" chant. First time I've ever heard a chant for an official other than "The referee's a ******" and general abuse!

For the record there was a reason for a takedown!

That's excellent why was I not told about this Rory?!

 

[Shrimper]

As far as I'm aware there isn't a national team as such that plays in the leagues such as they have in the USA with the National Development team. Would it be worth it?

 

[Siamese Dream]

As far as I'm aware there isn't a national team as such that plays in the leagues such as they have in the USA with the National Development team. Would it be worth it?

I would advocate having a GB U20 team playing in the EPL but it wouldn't really work financially or theoretically. The reason the USNTDP works is because those players can't get paid because they're going to the NCAA and have a realistic career ahead of them. It wouldn't work here because the players get paid by their clubs, to give them incentive to play you would have to pay them and where is this money going to come from? Also this GB U20 team would have to be based somewhere and lots of players wouldn't want to move away from home due to work or education commitments, there's not a realistic career in the sport for a lot of them so they're not going to give that up.

 

[villevalo]

The word on Manchester is that they built up some major debts playing in the EIHL and so they dropped down until they pay off the debts, looks like they'd re-evaluate the situation once they get a proper long term place to play in. Or at least that's the story their owner seems to be spinning.

Speaking of which their owner let slip that two teams tried to apply to the EPL before the EPL AGM at Coventry, so who knows if those or other teams would try again this season.

 

[Shrimper]

I would advocate having a GB U20 team playing in the EPL but it wouldn't really work financially or theoretically. The reason the USNTDP works is because those players can't get paid because they're going to the NCAA and have a realistic career ahead of them. It wouldn't work here because the players get paid by their clubs, to give them incentive to play you would have to pay them and where is this money going to come from? Also this GB U20 team would have to be based somewhere and lots of players wouldn't want to move away from home due to work or education commitments, there's not a realistic career in the sport for a lot of them so they're not going to give that up.

Very true but maybe it could be more viable to have it tied in with the best Sports University?