GDT: End of Season Press Conference | 12:30pm | Allvin & Tocchet

[VanillaCoke]

They don't have a choice..

Regardless of the voting criteria Karlssons 100+ pts on a worse team with way worse players, is atleast a level above Hughes' seventy something.

Hughes is nowhere near prime burns, doughty, EK, or Fox, Makar, josi, Hedman etc and it's absurd to think he is.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Not buying that Hughes needed 3-4 extra minutes to level up. If anything it hurt his production during the last 2-3 weeks of the season.

I’ll buy that Hughes played better under Tocchet due to changes made by how the team was coached, not due to usage.

I’d go one step farther and say I think he ‘leveled up’ because everyone on the team was paying more attention and working harder (coach’s bump) and the level of competition (Soft schedule and the good teams they did play, didn’t take them seriously.)

 

[MS]

They don't have a choice..

Regardless of the voting criteria Karlssons 100+ pts on a worse team with way worse players, is atleast a level above Hughes' seventy something.

Hughes is nowhere near prime burns, doughty, EK, or Fox, Makar, josi, Hedman etc and it's absurd to think he is.

I don't think he's at the absolute peak of a few of those guys but I'll definitely bite on some of them.

How is Quinn Hughes' performance over the last 40 games (or over the whole year, really) not on the same level as Adam Fox, as an example? Or every year of Roman Josi's career except one crazy outlier?

 

[4th line culture]

The whining is endless and completely thoughtless. it's the same tantrum again and again and again.

"WHY GM MAN NO SAY MAGIC R WORD? WHY TEAM NOT DELIBERATELY SUCK?"

Sick of it.

You forgot "magic beans" and " video games"

 

[RandV]

At this point why would the NHL live up to any deals with the KHL?

Russia is a failing pariah state. f*** 'em. Hire a team to smuggle out anyone with talent.

Without getting into the politics of it, there is the purely economic angle in that it was in the NHL's best interest to have some sort of agreement because the KHL had the economic power to be a minor competitor. I can't imagine that being the case anymore, and if it wasn't a firm contractual agreement (?) any reason for the NHL to keep it up.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Do you honestly think that Hughes levels up if they're cutting his minutes under Boudreau on a team with no structure trying to lose?

Probably at some point.

Maybe we don't see it this year.

 

[MS]

Probably at some point.

Maybe we don't see it this year.

That's not exactly a convincing answer.

Maybe we see it at some point? But maybe his game just rots playing years for a team with no structure trying to lose.

Look what happened to pretty much every young player during the Benning era from Pettersson and Boeser down through Stecher and Hutton. They all hit the ground running and then had the life sucked out of them playing for a disaster club with no direction, no standards, no expectations, no development.

We're starting to see that change in a real and meaningful way - and even saw some improvement with your boy Boeser in the 2nd half of this season - but people want it to stay like the Benning years because it preserves their precious draft pick better.

 

[Orca Smash]

This season Brock Boeser had more 5 on 5 points than Garland and…..JT Miller

Depends what metric you use. Garland can also skate and backcheck unlike boeser.

Analytics show Garland is Canucks' most productive player at 5-on-5 | Offside

Although he sits sixth overall in team scoring, Conor Garland has been the best Canucks player at even-strength this season.

dailyhive.com

Boeser said he doesn’t want to be traded.

Because he does not want to be traded he wont be traded? Thats not how it works unless he has a clause in his contract which would be news to me. I get brock has some die hard fans that wont give up on him, I would rather see him get moved instead of garland.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Depends what metric you use. Garland can also skate and backcheck unlike boeser.

Analytics show Garland is Canucks' most productive player at 5-on-5 | Offside

Although he sits sixth overall in team scoring, Conor Garland has been the best Canucks player at even-strength this season.

dailyhive.com

Because he does not want to be traded he wont be traded? Thats not how it works. I get brock has some dire had fans that wont give up on him, I would just rather see him get moved vs garland.

But it isn’t fair to trade him if he doesn’t want it. He has had a hard time in life the last few years.

 

[Orca Smash]

But it isn’t fair to trade him if he doesn’t want it. He has had a hard time in life the last few years.

Thats unfortunately not how it works, lots of players lose family members and still get traded, I feel bad for anyone who loses a father, but it is a business and life goes on. They were supposedly exploring a trade with Minny at the deadline and his agent had been looking to find him a home during the year.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Thats unfortunately not how it works, lots of players lose family members and still get traded, I feel bad for anyone who loses a father, but it is a business and life goes on. They were supposedly exploring a trade with Minny at the deadline and his agent had been looking to find him a home during the year.

Yeah but he wanted out then but they went on an unforgettable Rick Run® now they’re a tight knit family. You can’t rip Brock away from family twice.

 

[MS]

Yeah but he wanted out then but they went on an unforgettable Rick Run® now they’re a tight knit family. You can’t rip Brock away from family twice.

Surely Rick Roll® would have been much more clever.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Surely Rick Roll® would have been much more clever.

It was taken.

 

[valkynax]

Surely Rick Roll® would have been much more clever.

Ask and thou shalt receive, and thy joy shall be complete.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

That's not exactly a convincing answer.

Maybe we see it at some point? But maybe his game just rots playing years for a team with no structure trying to lose.

Thats not what I said. Read the post again.

I said probably he will. I would go as far as to say most likely he would. The maybe is in relation to whether it was obvious this year or not.

Look what happened to pretty much every young player during the Benning era from Pettersson and Boeser down through Stecher and Hutton. They all hit the ground running and then had the life sucked out of them playing for a disaster club with no direction, no standards, no expectations, no development.

We're starting to see that change in a real and meaningful way - and even saw some improvement with your boy Boeser in the 2nd half of this season - but people want it to stay like the Benning years because it preserves their precious draft pick better.

You keep inventing new things that "only happened because we won these meaningless games", to try to justify this f*** up by our current management group.

Pettersson didn't stagnate.

Boeser is injured at all times.

I do agree that the culture from top to bottom was toxic under Benning. But this idea that Pettersson's career year was because of our new management is just your invention. The amount of distractions resulting from missmanagement has been at an all time high this year.

Look. Winning culture is not built in meaningless games. Quinn Hughes improved because he is really pedantic about what he can get better at and then works extremely hard to improve. Not because Tocchet played him 30 mins per game in a lost season.

Again I refuse this premise.

 

[racerjoe]

Petterson stagnated and then went backwards under benning. I think Hughes did too when I think about it but I would want to double check that.

 

[JohnHodgson]

No matter what 'spin' Allvin and Tocchet put on the recently concluded season and the hopes for next year, the fact is that when the pre-season prognostications come out, the Canucks won't be picked as a playoff team once again.

I mean how you possibly pick them, based on their current roster? Canucks have a major uphill struggle to prove the doubters wrong.

Good thing there's this thing called an offseason.

 

[JohnHodgson]

No one asked why they gave up a 1st and a second for a player with a serious injury or if they knew how severe Hronek's injury was before they traded for him.

No one even mentioned Horvat.

The media in Van City is so poor at journalism.

They have all just become media personalities like the people that they cover.

It might as well have been Allvin interviewing the media.

Nothing of any significance was provided, I'll tell you that for free!

Why does the injury matter for Hronek? They weren't competing this year so why would that injury matter at all? It's not a career-ending injury by any means.

What is there to talk about re: Horvat? That shit was beat to death already. What more do you want to know? Any fan that's been following reasonably can probably answer your questions bud.

Almost nothing of any significance ever comes out of these press conferences... first time as a sports fan?

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Why does the injury matter for Hronek? They weren't competing this year so why would that injury matter at all? It's not a career-ending injury by any means.

What is there to talk about re: Horvat? That shit was beat to death already. What more do you want to know? Any fan that's been following reasonably can probably answer your questions bud.

Almost nothing of any significance ever comes out of these press conferences... first time as a sports fan?

Ha, so you think the supposed journalist were doing their jobs or were they just trying to keep their jobs with their mostly pathetic questions that failed to inform the fan base?

Are you even aware of the press accreditation fight that is going on in Vancouver with the Canucks?

Besides anything else, it limits access for the members of the press that actually want to work like journalists.

On the flip side, it hangs over the media personalities who get paid directly through rights-holders agreements to go soft on their questioning.


Apparently, you like Kool-Aid; what's your favourite flavour?

Canucks Dishonest, Horse$#&? Media Policy - Vancouver Hockey Insider

The Canucks and their one-of-a-kind attempt to control messaging.

vancouverhockeyinsider.com

 

[MS]

Thats not what I said. Read the post again.

I said probably he will. I would go as far as to say most likely he would. The maybe is in relation to whether it was obvious this year or not.


You keep inventing new things that "only happened because we won these meaningless games", to try to justify this f*** up by our current management group.

Pettersson didn't stagnate.

Boeser is injured at all times.

I do agree that the culture from top to bottom was toxic under Benning. But this idea that Pettersson's career year was because of our new management is just your invention. The amount of distractions resulting from missmanagement has been at an all time high this year.

Look. Winning culture is not built in meaningless games. Quinn Hughes improved because he is really pedantic about what he can get better at and then works extremely hard to improve. Not because Tocchet played him 30 mins per game in a lost season.

Again I refuse this premise.

It's funny.

You didn't refuse this premise when I was applying it to Jim Benning in 2021.

Canucks Management Thread: Year 8, Wait and See...Again

tfw you know who everyone is talking about but cant see the posts. Probably saving braincells but this all just seems so amusing that i am tempted to unblock.

forums.hfboards.com

Player development is Benning's job. Hiring quality coaches and staff is Benning's job. Creating a well-run organization with obvious direction that players can buy into is Benning's job. Making sure players feel happy and valued is Benning's job.

When players are underachieving because they're poorly coached, poorly developed, poorly supported, are miserable and feel unvalued playing for a rudderless ship, that is on Benning.

It's absolutely incredible that you (or anyone else) doesn't understand this. Jim Benning isn't playing season mode in EA Sports. Jim Benning is managing people and his job is to get the best out of those people. Good GMs don't have players that chronically underachieve.

I'm literally talking about this exact thing - that development comes from the top and putting a good system and place and allowing players to succeed in a quality structured environment. And I even said that Benning was playing video games by just throwing players on the ice and hoping for the best.

And you liked that post. Didn't even think that referring to video games was juvenile.

But now 18 months later, you're all about the Benning Model. Just put Quinn Hughes out there in a losing situation with no structure and 'he'll probably eventually figure it out!'

You keep telling me I've changed, but I think maybe you've changed.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Yeah but he wanted out then but they went on an unforgettable Rick Run® now they’re a tight knit family. You can’t rip Brock away from family twice.

They're no strangers to love.

They knew the rules and so do I.

 

[EverTheCynic]

The takeaway to me is that they aren't looking solely to dump contracts. It's not about cap space, it's about building around Pettesson,, Miller, Kuzmenko, Hughes, and Demko.

My interpretation of that is they may target role/identity sorts of players with trades. Guys who fills holes, play a certain way, and improve the complexion and identity/culture of the team. Make us better, not necessarily more cap flexible.

Then we find young guys around the league (or through the farm/NCAA/etc) and give them prime minutes with elite talent. Like Beau, McDonaugh, Kravstov, etc. Hope we can land ourselves a Jared McCann or two. A good player who was just never gonna get the opportunity and deployment with his draft team.

Kinda how I'm reading Allvin's vibe

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It's funny.

You didn't refuse this premise when I was applying it to Jim Benning in 2021.

Canucks Management Thread: Year 8, Wait and See...Again

tfw you know who everyone is talking about but cant see the posts. Probably saving braincells but this all just seems so amusing that i am tempted to unblock.

forums.hfboards.com

I'm literally talking about this exact thing - that development comes from the top and putting a good system and place and allowing players to succeed in a quality structured environment. And I even said that Benning was playing video games by just throwing players on the ice and hoping for the best.

And you liked that post. Didn't even think that referring to video games was juvenile.

But now 18 months later, you're all about the Benning Model. Just put Quinn Hughes out there in a losing situation with no structure and 'he'll probably eventually figure it out!'

You keep telling me I've changed, but I think maybe you've changed.

Thats obviously not what I meant or said.

And I did find your EA sports dig juvenile, even back then.

You are just spiraling at this point... building new strawmen to argue against.

I will just attempt to leave you mostly be like your few buddies. No point in getting dragged in to these dishonest debates.

 

[MS]

Thats obviously not what I meant or said.

And I did find your EA sports dig juvenile, even back then.

You are just spiraling at this point... building new strawmen to argue against.

I will just attempt to leave you mostly be like your few buddies. No point in getting dragged in to these dishonest debates.

That is very obviously what you meant and said.

I asked you directly if you thought Hughes would break out on a losing team with no structure and your response was 'probably eventually' which is the exact opposite of viewpoints you were agreeing with 18 months ago.

And then as usual you start accusing others of arguing disingenuously when it's you that's flip-flopping all over the place.

I have been incredibly consistent in the things I'm saying and have advocated for and you loved them when it shat on Benning but get your knickers in a twist when it goes against your current EVERYTHING SUCKS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS PICKS worldview.

 

[Bleach Clean]

They don't have a choice..

Regardless of the voting criteria Karlssons 100+ pts on a worse team with way worse players, is atleast a level above Hughes' seventy something.

Hughes is nowhere near prime burns, doughty, EK, or Fox, Makar, josi, Hedman etc and it's absurd to think he is.

Nowhere near? I will differ on that: Fox, Josi, Doughty, Burns and maybe Makar can be contested. EK and Hedman, yes, not near.