GDT: End of Season Press Conference | 12:30pm | Allvin & Tocchet

[4Twenty]

Let’s actually discuss the red herring: Hughes levelled up

How? Is it easy to measure?

This seems like just another Bruce there it is overvaluing of a dead season in a soft schedule.

Hughes has been good for his whole career. Nothing he did in the 30+ games under Tocchet sets himself apart from the rest of his career. Like the first 20 games of this season were as good if not better than the last 20.

The “value” gained during a soft schedule on garbage time is being overstated incredibly.

I won’t call it nonsense but it’s very board game type thinking.

 

[MS]

Let’s actually discuss the red herring: Hughes levelled up

How? Is it easy to measure?

This seems like just another Bruce there it is overvaluing of a dead season in a soft schedule.

Hughes has been good for his whole career. Nothing he did in the 30+ games under Tocchet sets himself apart from the rest of his career. Like the first 20 games of this season were as good if not better than the last 20.

The “value” gained during a soft schedule on garbage time is being overstated incredibly.

I won’t call it nonsense but it’s very board game type thinking.

This reads like 'I didn't watch the games'.

 

[m9]

Let’s actually discuss the red herring: Hughes levelled up

How? Is it easy to measure?

This seems like just another Bruce there it is overvaluing of a dead season in a soft schedule.

Hughes has been good for his whole career. Nothing he did in the 30+ games under Tocchet sets himself apart from the rest of his career. Like the first 20 games of this season were as good if not better than the last 20.

The “value” gained during a soft schedule on garbage time is being overstated incredibly.

I won’t call it nonsense but it’s very board game type thinking.

I think from purely the eye test, Hughes played much better in the second half of the year than he did the first half. It's not even really close to me.

But that being said, I don't really go along with the rest of the discussion about Hughes. It's too early to know if this is some new level for Hughes or just a great 2nd half in a bunch of meaningless games with a coach bump. I also think it's a bit of a guess to know whether or not he would have played to this level with similar ice time than he usually gets. Or if he really did "level up", I have no real reason to think it wouldn't have happened next season at some point.

Basically my thought is - Hughes played elite in the second half of the year. I have no idea if it's sustainable or meaningful given the full context of the season.

 

[MS]

I think from purely the eye test, Hughes played much better in the second half of the year than he did the first half. It's not even really close to me.

But that being said, I don't really go along with the rest of the discussion about Hughes. It's too early to know if this is some new level for Hughes or just a great 2nd half in a bunch of meaningless games with a coach bump. I also think it's a bit of a guess to know whether or not he would have played to this level with similar ice time than he usually gets. Or if he really did "level up", I have no real reason to think it wouldn't have happened next season at some point.

Basically my thought is - Hughes played elite in the second half of the year. I have no idea if it's sustainable or meaningful given the full context of the season.

I mean, a new level is always a new level and it could be a blip.

But the 2nd half was clearly - by far - the best stretch of his career. Scored at about a 100-point clip over a couple-month stretch, led the NHL in TOI, generated huge positive goal differentials while playing for a bad skeleton team with a series of partners who were healthy scratches at various points this year. And the eye test matched the numbers - he was awesome. It looked Norris-ish.

 

[4Twenty]

This reads like 'I didn't watch the games'.

Show me the way? Is your take purely eye test?

How do you quantify this levelling up?

He made Luke Schenn part of a competent top pair all season. He’s been a very good player for his entire career.

Your posts read just like your over evaluation of the Bruce bump last offseason. Over evaluating garbage time. And weighting it over everything else.

Edit*
Hughes GF% at 5 on 5 under Tocchet 57%

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

Hughes GF% before Tocchet 56%

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

The role changed slightly but he’s been good with bad partners since Tanev left. Especially post Canadian division.

 

[MS]

Show me the way? Is your take purely eye test?

How do you quantify this levelling up?

He made Luke Schenn part of a competent top pair all season. He’s been a very good player for his entire career.

Your posts read just like your over evaluation of the Bruce bump last offseason. Over evaluating garbage time. And weighting it over everything else.

Edit*
Hughes GF% at 5 on 5 under Tocchet 57%

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

Hughes GF% before Tocchet 56%

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

The role changed slightly but he’s been good with bad partners since Tanev left. Especially post Canadian division.

I didn't overvalue the results last year aside from not expecting the goaltending to crater the way it did. The production during the 2nd half of last year held up for more players than it didn't. And it's funny you keep bringing this up because I was probably the loudest voice here for firing Boudreau last summer. I thought we were a bubble team and we would have been a bubble team with normal goaltending results.

I posted my thoughts on Hughes above. His production was up, his minutes were up, he looked totally in control of games tilting the ice in a way we haven't seen before. I don't care about GF% given that the team was totally different in the 2nd half from the first.

 

[4Twenty]

I didn't overvalue the results last year aside from not expecting the goaltending to crater the way it did. The production during the 2nd half of last year held up for more players than it didn't. And it's funny you keep bringing this up because I was probably the loudest voice here for firing Boudreau last summer. I thought we were a bubble team and we would have been a bubble team with normal goaltending results.

I posted my thoughts on Hughes above. His production was up, his minutes were up, he looked totally in control of games tilting the ice in a way we haven't seen before. I don't care about GF% given that the team was totally different in the 2nd half from the first.

Thanks for the reply.

I posted the links to stats so they can speak for themselves. Just showed what I sorted by.


Up to Jan 21st his GF% was 8th in the league.

After 16th.

He’s a helluva player who levelled up long before this late season run of high minutes in what everyone regards a light schedule.

 

[MS]

Thanks for the reply.

I posted the links to stats so they can speak for themselves. Just showed what I sorted by.


Up to Jan 21st his GF% was 8th in the league.

After 16th.

He’s a helluva player who levelled up long before this late season run of high minutes in what everyone regards a light schedule.

Again, I really don't care about GF% as a stat. You're listing +/- as evidence of something like it's 1985 when the context in which it was generated was totally different.

His play in the 2nd half of this season was easily the best of his career. It seems like you didn't watch many games? But it was pretty bloody obvious.

 

[4Twenty]

Again, I really don't care about GF% as a stat. You're listing +/- as evidence of something like it's 1985 when the context in which it was generated was totally different.

His play in the 2nd half of this season was easily the best of his career. It seems like you didn't watch many games? But it was pretty bloody obvious.

I didn’t watch all the games. But I watched I’m guessing 3 out of every 4.

Again. Click the damn link. He went up maybe at a marginal rate over the second half of the season across the board.

This isn’t like using plus minus. It’s purely 5 on 5. I don’t think 3 on 3 or 4 on 4 is worth accounting for. Plus it shows that he’s upper echelon all damn year.

It’s also better than you exaggerating the “level up” on an eliminated team in a universally agreed soft schedule.

Anyways.I disagree there has been a level up. I think you overstate it.

I’m content to agree to disagree. I just don’t need to call it nonsense or any other silly misnomer.

 

[MS]

I didn’t watch all the games. But I watched I’m guessing 3 out of every 4.

Again. Click the damn link. He went up maybe at a marginal rate over the second half of the season across the board.

This isn’t like using plus minus. It’s purely 5 on 5. I don’t think 3 on 3 or 4 on 4 is worth accounting for. Plus it shows that he’s upper echelon all damn year.

It’s also better than you exaggerating the “level up” on an eliminated team in a universally agreed soft schedule.

Anyways.I disagree there has been a level up. I think you overstate it.

I’m content to agree to disagree. I just don’t need to call it nonsense or any other silly misnomer.

Again, I really don't care about +/- (even glorified) when comparing the halves of Hughes' season.

He's always been a very good player. What we saw through Feb-March this year was an absolutely elite player. There's a reason that this team was somehow winning games while dressing mostly an Abbotsford Canucks/NCAA UFA blueline + Tyler Myers.

 

[Hit the post]

Again, I really don't care about +/- (even glorified) when comparing the halves of Hughes' season.

He's always been a very good player. What we saw through Feb-March this year was an absolutely elite player. There's a reason that this team was somehow winning games while dressing mostly an Abbotsford Canucks/NCAA UFA blueline + Tyler Myers.

That Hughes has been able to accomplish this *DESPITE* having Travis Green as his head coach for several years is nothing short of a miracle. Or more likely a measure of just how good a player he is.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This reads like 'I didn't watch the games'.

Yeah.

Hughes played through an injury the first 15-20 games.

He was MUCH better the final 60.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

And to no ones surprised Brock was one of the players who doesnt come into camp in peak physical shape

Not to let him off the hook, but it's understandable.

 

[andora]

The takeaway to me is that they aren't looking solely to dump contracts. It's not about cap space, it's about building around Pettesson,, Miller, Kuzmenko, Hughes, and Demko.

My interpretation of that is they may target role/identity sorts of players with trades. Guys who fills holes, play a certain way, and improve the complexion and identity/culture of the team. Make us better, not necessarily more cap flexible.

Then we find young guys around the league (or through the farm/NCAA/etc) and give them prime minutes with elite talent. Like Beau, McDonaugh, Kravstov, etc. Hope we can land ourselves a Jared McCann or two. A good player who was just never gonna get the opportunity and deployment with his draft team.

Kinda how I'm reading Allvin's vibe

Exactly and that can be the avenue when you are strong in development and systems. A strong system makes your job of finding players more focused.

I mean look at carolina.. their third line is gold.. has been for years. This year jordan martinook was great. Jesper fast has been great for years. Why? Because that team runs an effective system with good coaching and players know their roles and how to play

So when you look at some of our players like joshua aman PDG Podkolzin.. are they THAT DIFFERENT then martinook and fast.. no fricken way.. but it is about getting the system going

Anyone disagree hoglander can play the type of game their third line does?

We have these players and just need to get the rhythym down